COR ladies free

[Mathman]

It's odd that Nakano was able to complete a 3A and yet had two jumps downgraded while Kim didn't even attempt a 3A and had no downgrades.

? I don't see what Nakano's triple Axel has to do with whether her other jumps were fully rotated or not. Much less what it has to do with whether Kim's jumps should have been downgraded or not.

I prefer women skaters who really look feminine inside and out.

Joannie is very feminine on the inside. :yes:

 

[netnuts]

When you compare Nakano's legs with Mao's or Yuna's legs, her legs are definitely shorter. However, if you compare her legs with Rochette's legs, I find that there is not so much difference. Rochette does not have a ideal figure skater's body either. On the contrary Nakano's body is more feminine than Rochette's. Rochette looks so muscular, and almost like a woman body builder. I prefer women skaters who really look feminine inside and out.

I should have made myself clear. Two things drive me nuts about Nakano's skating. Leg wrap and her posture. When she does spirals, spins, and stroking, one of her legs is always bent... I find her not appealing to watch.

Joannie has good posture, strong back, sure she's not balleria, but her skating is powerful when she is on.

 

[ChrisH]

? I don't see what Nakano's triple Axel has to do with whether her other jumps were fully rotated or not. Much less what it has to do with whether Kim's jumps should have been downgraded or not.

A 3A requires more rotation. Whether or not her jumps were fully rotated, Nakano showed that on this day, she had the ability to fully rotate and land all of her jumps. Also unlike Kim, Nakano executed all of her doubles in combination, including the 2Lo. I think it's odd, that's all. I won't be putting Nakano under the microscope because she didn't set a new FS high. That Kim's FS score of 133.70 surpassed Asada's 133.13 WC FS should raise some eyebrows. :think:

 

[tiara]

Joannie is very feminine on the inside. :yes:

Really? However, she actually creates a butch-like atmosphere around her. I guess the atmosphere does not work for her. Because generally speaking, the judges do not like it.

Do not you agree that if she contests with Buttle in arm wresling, she can easily beat him?

 

[bekalc]

A 3A requires more rotation. Whether or not her jumps were fully rotated, Nakano showed that on this day, she had the ability to fully rotate and land all of her jumps. Also unlike Kim, Nakano executed all of her doubles in combination, including the 2Lo. I think it's odd, that's all. I won't be putting Nakano under the microscope because she didn't set a new FS high. That Kim's FS score of 133.70 surpassed Asada's 133.13 WC FS should raise some eyebrows. :think:

And.. Mao Asada got her world record with a two footed triple axel, and a downgraded triple toe... It's not like Mao put out this perfect unbelievable skate Chris....And before that Sasha Cohen had the record I believe, and once again she herself we know didn't put out a perfect unbelievable 7 triple skate.

No offense but the judges not only credit Yu-na's jumps they gave most of the GOE points. Now the judges have the benefit of instant replay, do you think they would have given it high GOE if her jumps were downgradable. Your the only person I've heard even mentioning this...Please..

And what does Nakano attempting a triple axel have to do with whether the rest of Yu-na's jumps are downgradable or not...That argument along takes away your credibility...

 

[Skye]

A 3A requires more rotation. Whether or not her jumps were fully rotated, Nakano showed that on this day, she had the ability to fully rotate and land all of her jumps. Also unlike Kim, Nakano executed all of her doubles in combination, including the 2Lo. I think it's odd, that's all. I won't be putting Nakano under the microscope because she didn't set a new FS high. That Kim's FS score of 133.70 surpassed Asada's 133.13 WC FS should raise some eyebrows. :think:

Lots of men with the 3A and/or quad have trouble with other triples. As I've mentioned above, Yukari's jumps have always been tight on rotation aside from that hideous leg wrap. She lucked out at Skate Canada when she was ratified for the 3Lz she fell on in the short program (which by Skate America standards would have definitely been hammered with downgrade) and thanks to that technical specialist Joannie will miss the GPF again.

I'm sorry but I just can't the under-rotations on Yu-Na's jumps you're talking about. She is one of the few ladies that has minimum pre-rotation and completes 3 full rotations in the air before landing, and I think that is why she almost always has problems with her landing when the rotation is even the slightest bit short. I'm guessing that the 3Lo you keep on mentioning is not the loop but the second 3Lz which was not landed on a clean outside edge, but from real time view does not look like it should be downgraded at all.

 

[*Sniper*]

Lots of men with the 3A and/or quad have trouble with other triples. As I've mentioned above, Yukari's jumps have always been tight on rotation aside from that hideous leg wrap. She lucked out at Skate Canada when she was ratified for the 3Lz she fell on in the short program (which by Skate America standards would have definitely been hammered with downgrade) and thanks to that technical specialist Joannie will miss the GPF again.

I'm sorry but I just can't the under-rotations on Yu-Na's jumps you're talking about. She is one of the few ladies that has minimum pre-rotation and completes 3 full rotations in the air before landing, and I think that is why she almost always has problems with her landing when the rotation is even the slightest bit short. I'm guessing that the 3Lo you keep on mentioning is not the loop but the second 3Lz which was not landed on a clean outside edge, but from real time view does not look like it should be downgraded at all.

I agree with most of what you say.
But I think the 3 Loop, like Chris says, could have been more fully rotated.
That is her weakest jump according to Yuna herself.

 

[bekalc]

Even if Yu-na's 3 lutz wasn't landed on an outside edge, doesn't mean it should be downgraded, I think the rule is a quarter turn.. It's not like she got positive GOE for that jump anyways.

 

[*Sniper*]

Do not you agree that if she contests with Buttle in arm wresling, she can easily beat him?

 

[skatingfan04]

Nakano is a GOOD Skater. BUT! The PCS scores is inflated and should not have been ahead of Rochette. If the PCS were correct, like they were at Skate Canada, Rochette probably would sneak by with enough points past Nakano....

I'm sorry, judges giving her higher skating skills than Rochette?? Not with that leg wrap........ http://forum.hdldemo.com/forum/images/smilies/rofl.gif

I agree with you there. Rochette has content between her jumps, beautiful positions in her jumps and most spins and spirals, and a good performance level. While Nakano is a good jumper and a good performer, her choreography, interpretation and jump positions are not like Rochettes. She deserves higher PC's than what she got.

 

[Skye]

Really? However, she actually creates a butch-like atmosphere around her. I guess the atmosphere does not work for her. Because generally speaking, the judges do not like it.

Do not you agree that if she contests with Buttle in arm wresling, she can easily beat him?

As a Joannie fan, I find this comment very disturbing. As much as Yukari should not be faulted with her long torso and short legs, Joannie can't help it that she doesn't have a baby ballerina figure. I don't know and can't help what the judges think but hope and believe they know better than some of us who call ourselves skating fans.

 

[ks777]

Really? However, she actually creates a butch-like atmosphere around her. I guess the atmosphere does not work for her. Because generally speaking, the judges do not like it.

Do not you agree that if she contests with Buttle in arm wresling, she can easily beat him?

I bet she could beat both Buttle and Sandhu combined! I always thought Rochette and Leung are both more masculine than Buttle and Sandhu.

 

[fumie_fumie]

I can't believe skating fans make such a comment on a skater. Joannie should be judged and valued for what she is doing, not by what she looks like.

Same deal with Buttle and Sandhu. All three are all talented, hard-working skaters who have come a long way. Yes, even Sandhu... Probably he works more on his skating than I ever work on my daily job.

 

[fourclover]

A 3A requires more rotation. Whether or not her jumps were fully rotated, Nakano showed that on this day, she had the ability to fully rotate and land all of her jumps. Also unlike Kim, Nakano executed all of her doubles in combination, including the 2Lo. I think it's odd, that's all. I won't be putting Nakano under the microscope because she didn't set a new FS high. That Kim's FS score of 133.70 surpassed Asada's 133.13 WC FS should raise some eyebrows. :think:

You thought Mao's WC FS performance was that great? I thought her scores were inflated back then due to home ground advantage. Not only did she two-foot her triple axle, I thought her presentation was lukewarm overall. Comparing Yu-na's CoR FS and Mao's WC FS, I think Yu-na's skate was more technically and artistically balanced, more rounded. So, yes, I think Yu-na deserved to surpass 133.13 if want to compare the two.

 

[mizu_iro]

After looking at Yu-Na's LP again with attention to the landings, I will say that the 3R had a bit of underrotation; however, it didn't seem to be enough to warrant the downgrade. All of the other jumps were fully rotated; on the second 3Z, she pitched forward on the landing from a lack of control, not from UR. Most of the landings were perfect and on a very steady edge.

And Mao received that score at home with a two-footed 3A, an underrotated 3T and 2 flutzes. Whoops, there go half of HER jumping passes...

 

[ks777]

And Mao received that score at home with a two-footed 3A, an underrotated 3T and 2 flutzes. Whoops, there go half of HER jumping passes...

so are you trying to say that Mao will get a huge score if she lands everything clean?

 

[mizu_iro]

so are you trying to say that Mao will get a huge score if she lands everything clean?

Even with the flutz, if she lands her 3A and has no downgrades she could also easily crack 130. And that's with her current 6 triple, 3 double axel layout. What I did notice about all of Mao's double axels is that she has difficult entries to all of them, which helps a lot of the GOE.

 

[ks777]

I am so happy that Mao has Yuna as her rival and vice versa. It's just weird that they happened to be the same age. If Mao or Yuna didn't have each other for rivalry, I am sure Mao and Yuna wouldn't be the same skater as now. They have gotten so much better over the last few years.
I remember when Tara Lipinski retired, Michelle was pretty much unbeatable,(althought she lost to Maria Butryskaya), and Michelle never had to technically push herself. If she had skaters like Yuna and Mao back then, I am sure Michelle would have done much harder 3/3 than 3toe/3toe and would have been competitive with Mao and Yuna, in my mind.

 

[mizu_iro]

I am so happy that Mao has Yuna as her rival and vice versa. It's just weird that they happened to be the same age. If Mao or Yuna didn't have each other for rivalry, I am sure Mao and Yuna wouldn't be the same skater as now. They have gotten so much better over the last few years.
I remember when Tara Lipinski retired, Michelle was pretty much unbeatable,(althought she lost to Maria Butryskaya), and Michelle never had to technically push herself. If she had skaters like Yuna and Mao back then, I am sure Michelle would have done much harder 3/3 than 3toe/3toe and would have been competitive with Mao and Yuna, in my mind.

I remember Peggy saying that she was practicing and landing 3sal-3loops in practice at 2000 worlds! If only we could have seem that in competition...

 

[ChrisH]

I'm sorry but I just can't the under-rotations on Yu-Na's jumps you're talking about. She is one of the few ladies that has minimum pre-rotation and completes 3 full rotations in the air before landing, and I think that is why she almost always has problems with her landing when the rotation is even the slightest bit short.

Kim should've be rewarded for her minimum pre-rotation with higher GOE marks, but she also should've been penalized with lower GOE marks and possibly downgrades for her underrotations.

I'm guessing that the 3Lo you keep on mentioning is not the loop but the second 3Lz which was not landed on a clean outside edge, but from real time view does not look like it should be downgraded at all.

Her 2nd 3Lz was one of her possibly cheated jumps. Correct outside edge and all, but not her usual height and distance. Underrotated on the landing with some ice sprayed sideways. The spray probably came from her left foot when she brought her free leg around.

The height and distance on her 3Lo was lower than on that 3Lz, which is why the 3Lo was too underrotated and required the balance check.

And.. Mao Asada got her world record with a two footed triple axel, and a downgraded triple toe... It's not like Mao put out this perfect unbelievable skate Chris....

Asada's program was harder not only due to the 3A, but also because of the 3Lo in combination. And the PCS was rightly higher due to being the more rehearsed program.

No offense but the judges not only credit Yu-na's jumps they gave most of the GOE points. Now the judges have the benefit of instant replay, do you think they would have given it high GOE if her jumps were downgradable. Your the only person I've heard even mentioning this...Please..

I don't believe that the judges have the benefit of instant replay and there is only one technical specialist. After reviewing the recordings, they'll probably see that Kim was overscored.

The audience wasn't all that impressed with Kim's skate. It was obvious that the scoring gap between Kim vs. Nakano and Rochette was bloated.