Did Dick insult Tarasova?

[WindSpirit5]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

Oh please. First of all, no one was accusing him of bashing Tarasova, but asking a question if something she heard was true. As for Dick "bashing" Plush, it was possible to think he did if you hadn't heard it all, because he used the words "I hate him". English had nothing to do with it, but the <em>context</em> he said it in. Same with what he said about Tarasova.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>People take his words too literally because they simply do not understand the language 100%. Its not wonder Europeans have been fighting among themselves for centuries with all the different languages and opportunities for misunderstandings and jumping to conclusions.[/quote] And this is just silly.

 

[Jules Asner]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

The title of this post is "Did Dick insult Tarasova"
insult - bash = same thing really

If you didn't understand that Dick was obviously joking or what point he was trying to make you do not have a wonderful grasp of the English language, native speaker or not.

 

[Jules Asner]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

NO ONE WAS ACCUSING HIM OF BASHING TARSOVA??

READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD OVER AGAIN. IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT.

"I heard he refereed to her as "the big Russian lady with the cold heart". Is this true and did anyone hear it?
If he did, I don't know how people can continue to listen this man. He can praise the American ladies and call the others sloppy all he wants. But there is no way he should be allowed to call others big(meaning FAT) and cold hearted.
What's next, homophobic remarks. "

 

[sarahmistral]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

I expected this to get nasty; FYI Jules Asner, my command of the English language is perfectly fine, thank you, and I often bristle at commentators' readiness to joke and poke fun at skaters and coaches from countries other than their own; though on the surface it appears as though it's "all in good fun", an intelligent person who understands not only the English language but the subtleties of a given context/situation, i.e. years of politics pitting "us" against "them" in every arena, be it political, cultural, athletic, or otherwise, will be sensitive enough to read more into it without necessarily bashing, insulting, or claiming that those who do not see it his or her way CLEARLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LANGUAGE. I don't see this thread as an exchange of opinions anymore, i.e. I think there's more to it than a light hearted joke, and the next person may not. That's okay. However, when you start insulting those of us who don't see it YOUR way by claiming we CLEARLY don't understand English properly, talking down to us and what not, I think the thread has deviated from its original purpose of debating without being condescending or arrogant to fellow posters. For what it's worth, I see the little "her heart is cold right now" remark as having the following subconscious undertones: this success-driven Russian lady, somehow not as compassionate as an American coach might be, is not going to be tolerant or forgiving of Sasha's mistakes. Somehow, I don't see him making a comparable comment about Robin Wagner if Sarah fell or Scott Williams if it were Michelle because here is Tarasova, this larger-than-life figure in skating who has always been competing against us; she happens to be coaching an American senior lady for the first time, which hardly guarantees a warm welcome into the fold. Many probably still view her as representative of the good old Iron Curtain and the Soviet schools of sport. So, though in your opinion I may not have a good command of the English language, since I don't espouse your views on this matter (a slightly presumptuous claim to make about people you do not know and haven't really conversed with), I attempt to view matters such as this one in a cultural, political, and historical context. I really have nothing else to say on this matter, or on this thread, for that matter, and I don't attack those who see Button's posts as lighthearted and harmless; however, I had to take Jules Asner to task for making what I consider unwarranted and insulting comments.

 

[Pookie]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

I didn't see it as an insult at all. The cold-heart remark was made because of the two errors Sasha made. Same as any coach would feel if their student had made an error. I don't think he even meant she was feeling cold <strong><em>toward</em></strong> Sasha. She just didn't have the warm fuzzies a perfect routine would bring on.

I'm sure Dick has great respect for TT. Why wouldn't he? She is one of the greatest coaches there is.

I think also that since Dick had his accident, he maybe doesn't express himself quite as well as he did. He seems to have a little more difficulty finding words sometimes. Hitting his head like that had to be rather traumatic at this point in his life.

 

[Jules Asner]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

Sarah, I think you and others try to read into what Dick is saying a little too much.

"this success-driven Russian lady, somehow not as compassionate as an American coach might be, is not going to be tolerant or forgiving of Sasha's mistakes"

It seems you have obviously taken his words literally by this statement, thus proving my point. Thanks.

 

[WindSpirit5]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The title of this post is "Did Dick insult Tarasova"[/quote] Yes, and it's a question, like I said. Thanks for explaining what <em>insult</em> means, btw. I wouldn't have known it otherwise, now would I?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>If you didn't understand that Dick was obviously joking or what point he was trying to make you do not have a wonderful grasp of the English language, native speaker or not.[/quote] First of all, I did understand him perfectly. <em>I</em> didn't ask this question, nor was I accusing him of anything. Btw, funny thing is you can't even tell whether I'm a native speaker or not. So, if someone doesn't always understand what you meant by saying something, it means they don't have a "wonderful grasp of English", right? How wonderfully convenient and at the same time untrue theory.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>NO ONE WAS ACCUSING HIM OF BASHING TARSOVA??

READ THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD OVER AGAIN. IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT.[/quote] You don't have to yell (feel free to be condescending, though, I do get a kick out of it). I've read it, a few times actually. Last time right before I replied to your post. No one was accusing him of bashing Tarasova, someone was <em>asking</em> if he did. Once again, it's not a problem with the language itself, but - here - with semantics. If you don't understand <em>that</em>, won't it mean that you don't have a wonderful grasp of English? It would, if your theory were true.

 

[anastasiabeaverhoussen]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

Doesn't take much to get you angry, must be a lot of undealt with issues and anger simmering under your surface.

 

[Pather2000]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

<em>After watching & hearing this man for over 30 years He wasn't insulting TT. He has stated time & time again how much respect that he has for her. That is just my 2 cents. I have been wacthing & hearing him for 30 years. He is never Mean about any skaters. If he likes them or not. Just just states what he see & feels & doesn't feel in a program. The Man has 2 Olympic Gold Medals &5 World Titles. & Needless to say put the Triple jump on the map.

& TT is a big lady. She will be the 1st to say that. But, she has lost alot of weight from last seson. & Good for her.

</em>

 

[anastasiabeaverhoussen]

who said this?

to be great is to be misunderstood.

 

[sarahmistral]

Re: who said this?

what I choose to read into his words is my prerogative, and if the point of yours that I have proven by expressing my opinion is that I have a poor grasp of English, then it seems that what is poor here is your ability to understand others and engage in intelligent exchange and dialogue with any one who does not see things your way.
Sad.

 

[anastasiabeaverhoussen]

my view

I found this board this morning and after only a few hours I have grasped that there are very oversensitive people here. Lighten up!! What I think is really poor and sad is the misunderstanding of Dick Button, otherwise there would be no discussion here to begin with. I heard his remark during worlds after Sasha's program and this discussion seems completely ridiculous.

 

[Skate Sandee]

Re: my view

LOL :lol: This thread cracks me up! And the great irony is that poor Dick was set up! He didn't just say the comment out of the blue. He said it after Terry Gannon set it up as TT wearing her fur coat and saying "it's not cold in here". All Dick did is toss the proverbial "cold" ball back that was thrown out there.

Wow - all this passion....and the off-season has barely begun! Will we survive until Skate America??

 

[Excidra2001]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

I did not accuse him of anything. There is a question mark at the end of the the topic title. I was wondering whether he called her big and cold hearted. Thanx to a few posters here who cleared it up for me.

Pather, so what if he has two olympic gold medals and a few world titles. How is that relevant to what we are discussing?
I guess having two olympic gold and many other titles gives you the right to call the skating of others(mostly Europeans) UGLY.
You say that you have been listening to him for over 30 years and he is never mean to skaters(your words). Well, I have been listening to him for a little over two seasons now and the things that come out of his mouth would have many people shaking their head in disgust.
Dick finds self satisfaction when he is tearing down the rivals of the Americans.

I watched Dick's skating on tape a few months ago and boy does his stroking need major work.

 

[Grgranny]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

OK, Grgranny has tears. There are several posts here that I consider bashing. So, lets take a break and come back shaking hands. We all have heard it differently. Can we let it go at that?

 

[Pather2000]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

<em>Hearing him for a little of two season, I can understand that abundance of knowledge on how he speaks & his jibes his jokes, his one liners, how he makes fun of even himself etc..... Yeah right. But, whatever.


his few world titles. Lets say five is more than a few.

His Gold Medals & world titles. Gives him the REAL know how on skating. Which is what I was talking about. He knows about edging, jumps, etc.... & he comments on them.

But, this is a tired subject( that had no other direction of going Other than Bashing DB).

It has just turned into another one of those why I hate Dick Button Threads. Just becuase, he may not like you favorite skater , lets start some mess that he is now making fun of TT. .
Well, next season, what i suggest is that people who don't like him, just hit the mute button on your remote control. Then, you don't have to hear him. But, then they would have nothing to whine about

But, I did read a few post here that had valid points. & to those people AHMEN.
</em>

 

[rgirl181]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

I think Sarahmistral has a point that there is a subtle double standard in the way the major US figure skating commentators refer to US coaches and skaters vs. those from other countries, especially countries that are big current or former political and/or skating rivals. I think, as SM said, that it's not intentional, that it just creeps into the language and tone. But it's there. After all, would any US commentator have ever joked about Frank Carroll in any way, shape, or form? When I notice it is when Dick, Peggy, and Terry do Europeans or when a competition has no US or North American skaters who can medal, such as is often the case with pairs. At Euros and in pairs, there is a lot more complimenting of different skaters' strengths, more pertinent info about background, interesting asides about the coach, etc. But if the US is in the thick of it, I do think there is an unintentional and subtle tendency to criticize foreign skaters and their coaches more, or sometimes ignore the coaches completely. Irina has had the same coach forever and I don't think I've ever heard her name mentioned. OTOH, when it's all US skaters, such as Nats, there is a tendency to make good guys and bad guys out of rival skaters. So I think part of it is the human tendency to think in terms of "us and them" even when there is no "them," especially during competition.

Jaana asked if the business about Tarasova's coat was pertinent. No, it wasn't, but I've heard Dick, Peggy, and Terry occasionally get the "sillies," which is what I think happened here, and it can be about anything and anyone. IMO, although I do think there is a certain negative undertone that creeps into comments and jokes about foreign skaters and staff, in this particular case, I think the commentators were just tired after a long, exciting, and tension-filled week at Worlds. There was the war, the WSF, the protests against the ISU and the judging, the threat of terrorism, plus the usual tension of Worlds was increased because they were being held in the US. Sasha was the penultimate skater of the entire event. It was taking an unusually long time for her marks to come up. I think Terry Gannon was looking for some filler, mentioned Tarasova wearing a coat despite it being "not being at all chilly in here" and from there I think they all released a little tension with some giggles and empty-headed remarks for a minute. And I do mean a minute, if that long. They had a little break in form that lasted a minute or less. In the post-competition wrap-up, Dick Button couldn't even form a complete sentence.

So while I think Sarahmistral has a point about the double standard, in this case I say, Give these guys a break. Yeah the remarks were silly and apropos of nothing, but no doubt they were tired, hungry, and punchy. In other words, the caught an edge at the end of a long competition and long season.
Rgirl

 

[Skate Sandee]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

After all, would any US commentator have ever joked about Frank Carroll in any way, shape, or form? >>

At the 1997 Skate America competition, Dick called Frank Carroll an "old goat"! :lol:

 

[Joesitz]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

There are sensitive people round the world including me. A distrust of Americans is the current vogue.

I can not imagine Dick and TT not sitting down over a vodka on the rocks and discussing the sport until the wee hours of the morning after a 4 hour night of figure skating. I think of them as colleagues not enemies.

Whatever, I feel there has been enough of personal rationales of the matter and we put this to sleep.

Joesitz

 

[berthes ghost]

Re: Did Dick insult Tarasova?

"After all, would any US commentator have ever joked about Frank Carroll in any way, shape, or form?"

I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with your point, but Dick once made sarcastic remarks about Frank cracking a smile in his usually stoic and expressionless face and demeanor.