Drag picks, blade length and injuries?

[khi]

My question is about how to safely return to the ice after an injury caused by the drag pick of my new, shorter, skates.

I skated in skates 1.5 sizes too big for a long time and finally bought skates of the correct size at the same time as beginning actual skating lessons. I think I have smallish feet for my height (5'3, edea/risport size 235 skates, 9" blade, everyone tells me my skates are adorably small) and so I went down in skate size a lot (from 250) and at the same time upgraded to a blade with a more aggressive drag pick than I'm used to (coronation ace, very popular intermediate blade). Anyway I started to get used to the blades after a couple of weeks and got my beginner spins back (and they were improved suddenly!) when I had a fall.

I was learning forward power pulls when I caught the toepick of my blade - while falling backwards. I have no idea how this could happen - I don't think it should be so easy to catch my toepick while falling *backwards* ? Anyway because i fell backwards while my toe was stuck in the ice I managed to sit on my own heel and broke my fibula (it felt like my foot was being wrenched in a different direction from my leg... unpleasant ) and it will be months before i can consider returning to skating. If I do though, I think I want to buy new boots and blades. I don't feel safe on these anymore. The drag pick points almost straight downward and is visibly far more aggressive than on my old skates. I know I'm very prone to falling off the back of my blade when doing forward edges (same thing happens with my forward cross/swing rolls) but I never would have dreamed that I could get my toepick stuck in the ice while doing so.

I guess my question is - are there other "good/okay" blades that have a less aggressive drag pick? I've heard MK pro might work better but it's hard to visually compare. Are there any others? I'm only doing single jumps. Also, is it possible to mount a longer blade onto a boot? I skated for years with no injuries and to break my leg within weeks of getting new boots... it has to be the downsize/blade profile.

Unfortunately the options around where I live are very limited and I will probably have to order new boots/blades from another city at the least. Realistically I have to travel to another country to try out more than 1 brand of boot at a time so I want to do as much research as I can in advance.

Any advice at all is much appreciated. As you can imagine this is a very depressing injury which has made me question whether I should be skating at all (28F).

As an aside I'll probably be returning to the ice with wrist guards and some sort of head protection - I've never injured either before but apparently there's a first time for everything.... and while long bones heal well, wrist joints are a bit finicky apparently. :/

TL;DR: got new smaller skates and broke leg due to drag pick, now wondering what to get so this doesnt happen again

 

[Sibelius]

Having just compared side by side the Coronation Ace and the MK Pro, sorry to tell you the pick on the pro is slightly bigger. And the pick on the blade my skater transitioned from, the Eclipse Mist/Aurora is bigger still. Don't have any advice for you, but thought I'd share that tidbit at least. Best of luck and I'm sorry you were injured.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

When moving up to intermediate blades you are going to be out of luck when it comes to pick size. They get increasingly larger as you go up in level: The Coronation Ace and Pro have about the same size drag pick, but they are shaped a tad differently. Eclipse blades are around the same size as well.

Paramount and Ultima aren't going to be of any help to you either, since their picks are large.

The only thing I can think of is to maybe look into the Edea Charme blade since you only do single jumps (it has smaller drag pick and straight cut picks overall).

Either that or keep your Coro Ace's and practice getting your balance over the proper part of your blade so that you have less chance of accidents.

It does happen though, and I'm sorry to hear that you have such an injury, I hope you are better soon.


Good luck!

 

[treesprite]

I'm sorry to hear about your accident. I break a bone every time I am breaking in new skates, for the last 3 pairs, so I know how it feels to have new skates and unable to use them due to an injury.

Consider the shape of the curve of the blade before the toe pick, rather than just the size of the toe pick. I had Matrix Legacy blades for a while, and for the life of me I could not stay off of the toe picks even though I didn't have that problem with MK Pro and Coro Ace. Then with the newest boots, I switched to Eclipse Aurora, which is more curved before the toe pick than the Legacy, so the toe pick is higher off of the ice and I am no longer struggling to stay off of it. I don't know how it compares to the other blade models, but you could go to a shop and compare.

 

[khi]

Oh, I see! Thank you so much for the responses. I haven't been able to compare any of the blades for myself so it's really useful to hear from others who have!

I felt better doing toe jumps with the coronation ace but the size and positioning of the drag pick is intimidating now. I guess I want some blades where the pick takes more effort to rock onto. Maybe my options are either to keep the coro aces or downgrade (would I be likely to notice much difference in spinning past the usual adjustment period?). My figure skating goal used to be to get to double jumps - after this though, my goal is just to get back on the ice and hopefully develop my single jumps, spins and footwork.

I didn't realise for a long time that you are meant to have your weight at the back of the blade while doing forward power pulls and I think I might have had my weight too far forward on the blade which contributed to this injury. A coach had just told me to adjust my free leg position when I broke my leg so I guess the change in position was a factor too.

Thanks very much again, I'm currently waiting to see if I require surgery or if the bones have stayed in place on their own over the past ten days. They said it might be 3-5 months before I can go back on the ice but I feel that I'll be too scared to go back on the ice until I can sort of "rationalise" what happened to me and convince myself that it won't immediately happen again. :x

 

[khi]

I'm sorry to hear about your accident. I break a bone every time I am breaking in new skates, for the last 3 pairs, so I know how it feels to have new skates and unable to use them due to an injury.

Consider the shape of the curve of the blade before the toe pick, rather than just the size of the toe pick. I had Matrix Legacy blades for a while, and for the life of me I could not stay off of the toe picks even though I didn't have that problem with MK Pro and Coro Ace. Then with the newest boots, I switched to Eclipse Aurora, which is more curved before the toe pick than the Legacy, so the toe pick is higher off of the ice and I am no longer struggling to stay off of it. I don't know how it compares to the other blade models, but you could go to a shop and compare.

That makes sense! I never really thought of different blades having such different profiles, there are a lot of factors to look into. I'll have to see if i can find a place that stocks a lot of different blades. I'm sorry to hear you've broken so many bones, that sounds like really bad luck. Did you struggle with fears of the ice/fear of your new skates after your injuries?

 

[treesprite]

Thanks very much again, I'm currently waiting to see if I require surgery or if the bones have stayed in place on their own over the past ten days. They said it might be 3-5 months before I can go back on the ice but I feel that I'll be too scared to go back on the ice until I can sort of "rationalise" what happened to me and convince myself that it won't immediately happen again. :x

Don't give up! I am always nervous after I go back to the ice after injuries, but I manage to fight my way through it. I guess I am addictively chasing the high I get when I feel free on the ice. If you quit skating, you might regret it. The fact that you are thinking about your equipment demonstrates that you really want to skate in spite of your injury.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Oh, I see! Thank you so much for the responses. I haven't been able to compare any of the blades for myself so it's really useful to hear from others who have!

I felt better doing toe jumps with the coronation ace but the size and positioning of the drag pick is intimidating now. I guess I want some blades where the pick takes more effort to rock onto. Maybe my options are either to keep the coro aces or downgrade (would I be likely to notice much difference in spinning past the usual adjustment period?). My figure skating goal used to be to get to double jumps - after this though, my goal is just to get back on the ice and hopefully develop my single jumps, spins and footwork.

I didn't realise for a long time that you are meant to have your weight at the back of the blade while doing forward power pulls and I think I might have had my weight too far forward on the blade which contributed to this injury. A coach had just told me to adjust my free leg position when I broke my leg so I guess the change in position was a factor too.

Thanks very much again, I'm currently waiting to see if I require surgery or if the bones have stayed in place on their own over the past ten days. They said it might be 3-5 months before I can go back on the ice but I feel that I'll be too scared to go back on the ice until I can sort of "rationalise" what happened to me and convince myself that it won't immediately happen again. :x

There are blades you can downgrade to as I said in my last post, but if it were me, I'd save the $ and keep the aces. Learn to balance your weight properly on those blades, it does take time to learn with each different blade.

I hope that you heal quickly!

 

[treblemakerem]

I recently switched from beginner blades (eclipse Capri that came with my old skates) and in those I used to trip over my toe picks all the time and scrape them by accident during stroking and crossovers all the time. I thought I was just clumsy. I switched to MK Pros about a month ago and although the toe picks are slightly bigger I have not tripped once over ny toe pick. Im obviously no expert so I don't know how the CA compares to MK Pro but a lower level blade isn't necessarily going to be safer. My skate tech told me the MK pros were a pretty safe blade but I don't know enough to advise whether they'd be any better than the CAs that you have. I just know they feel a lot safer than my old beginner blades.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I recently switched from beginner blades (eclipse Capri that came with my old skates) and in those I used to trip over my toe picks all the time and scrape them by accident during stroking and crossovers all the time. I thought I was just clumsy. I switched to MK Pros about a month ago and although the toe picks are slightly bigger I have not tripped once over ny toe pick. Im obviously no expert so I don't know how the CA compares to MK Pro but a lower level blade isn't necessarily going to be safer. My skate tech told me the MK pros were a pretty safe blade but I don't know enough to advise whether they'd be any better than the CAs that you have. I just know they feel a lot safer than my old beginner blades.

A cheap blade that came as a boot blade combo isn't what was being suggested up thread.

They were good blades that are fitting for OP's level, not something that would be less safe than what she already has. I would never suggest that.

As I've said before, she needs to learn where her balance point is for each movement she is doing and how to properly shift it, and the Coronation Aces would be fine. There is always going to be an adjustment period to each new kind of blade one gets.

Also, the OP never stated what blades they had before the Coronation Aces, so it could be a number of things giving them issues adjusting in addition to balance points. If their old blade was another rocker size then that takes good adjustment period too.

Either way, again, good luck to the OP.

 

[jf12]

I’m so sorry to hear what happened to you. Since you self taught yourself so much, and you went back to fix things with a coach, it’s not surprising that things will feel off balance at first, and that in addition to new boots and blades. It’s a lot to change at once.

Maybe one way to get used to your new equipment when you get back on the ice is to start the beginning pattern dances - ice dance helps you get good edges and posture, and control where you are on the blade. It might help with your fear too because you can skate with a partner-coach who can save you from falling. There’s definitely no shame in padding up as well.

 

[tstop4me]

To: OP

(1) The size of the drag pick per se is not dispositive. As others have mentioned, other blade factors, such as main rocker radius, spin rocker profile, and drag pick placement, come into play. The following Paramount videos on "Lift Angles" and "Blade Profiles" provide useful background info:

https://www.paramountskates.com/videos

(2) Ic3 mentioned that, in addition to the blade you are currently on, another factor is the blade you were previously on, since that affects how much of a change you need to adjust to. Similarly, you need to consider the differences between the boots you are currently on and the boots you were previously on. Several years ago, I switched from an old pair of Riedell Royals to a new pair of Jackson Elites. Both the old blades and the new blades were Coronation Ace. The Jacksons had a substantially higher heel pitch than the Riedells, and caused me to pitch up towards the toes, especially when going backwards. It took a while to shift my weight more backwards than I was used to.

In your case, you mentioned that your previous boots were 1.5 sizes too large. That's a major complication, since you now need to accommodate to a shorter blade as well.

(3) I agree with Ic3. Stick with the Coronation Ace, rather than switching to a blade with a smaller drag pick. Given your bizarre circumstances, and the host of variables involved, it's not likely that you'd be OK if your drag pick had been 1 mm shorter.

 

[MiraiFan]

There are blades you can downgrade to as I said in my last post, but if it were me, I'd save the $ and keep the aces. Learn to balance your weight properly on those blades, it does take time to learn with each different blade.

I hope that you heal quickly!

Sorry this happened. I had some spectacular wipe-outs getting used to new blades with an aggressive toe pick, but I'm so glad to have them since I feel so much more secure on jumps. I would agree to hang in there and get used to them. It's tough to get your confidence shaken, so if head protection and wrist guards will make you feel safer, use them. I plan to start wearing a helmet when I work on harder jumps and lots of adults do. Also, you can try to practice falling with a coach... I am so scared of falling, then when I do, it's fine. Anyway, I killed my ankle and was out for month when the chair I was standing on flipped on me... stuff happens... Hang in there and heal quickly!

 

[SmallAminal]

To the OP: sorry that you had this injury....a bit off-topic but I want to give you some advice for when you do come back. I know from experience it can be hard to come back from a very serious accident (it took me along time to even get back into the rink after my gruesome accident). My suggestion is to come back S-L-O-W when you do - work with a coach and let them know in advance the situation so they are prepared to support you in every way. Right now I'm working with coaches that know exactly what happened to me and know that I need a lot of hand-holding in the beginning to get over the fear of certain positions and skills. They did not act like I was crazy for wanting to cry when it came time to practice cross-cuts. I did have one lesson though where another coach was pushing me too much - telling me "its no big deal if you fall" and that "I had nothing to fear." Ummmm...my accident almost killed me so yeah, I'm gonna have an instinctual fear reaction to a lot of things and I need longer than other students to get emotionally comfortable and I'll have weird flashback moments on the ice where I have to take a break or I'll start crying. I don't work with them anymore as they were not sympathetic to my trauma and didn't support me the way I needed. Get someone who can support you and who will understand if you need/want to take things slower. Build your confidence bit by bit and be patient with yourself - my first time on the ice I literally stepped on for about 20 seconds and then immediately got off the ice. It was scary but I was proud of myself for doing it and it was the first step forward in getting comfortable again.

Also, don't neglect your physiotherapy and make sure you are medically cleared for a return to the ice. You may want to tell your care team that your goal is to make it back on the ice - they can help make sure that you are properly preparing your body for the return. I did a lot of "dynamic functional training" to make sure my legs were working properly and strong enough to attempt a return to the ice.

Elsewhere in this forum someone has posted the short video from Katelynn Osmond talking about her horrible leg break and her emotional struggles coming back from that. I recommend watching it - I found it VERY comforting knowing that even elite athletes have these fears and that they may even need counseling or mental health support to get through it.

I wish you good luck in your recovery and please take care of yourself physically and emotionally!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Sorry this happened. I had some spectacular wipe-outs getting used to new blades with an aggressive toe pick, but I'm so glad to have them since I feel so much more secure on jumps. I would agree to hang in there and get used to them. It's tough to get your confidence shaken, so if head protection and wrist guards will make you feel safer, use them. I plan to start wearing a helmet when I work on harder jumps and lots of adults do. Also, you can try to practice falling with a coach... I am so scared of falling, then when I do, it's fine. Anyway, I killed my ankle and was out for month when the chair I was standing on flipped on me... stuff happens... Hang in there and heal quickly!

This should be directed at the OP Khi, since they were the one with this issue, not me. I'm the one helping them.

 

[khi]

Thanks again to everyone, all this advice is really valuable. I suppose it might be more the short size of the new blade compared to my old blade that is the problem. I had completely stopped tripping over my toepicks when this accident happened though (i'd say it took about 3 weeks to adjust, then i felt fine on them for a week, then injured myself) so I don't know... I guess I wasn't as used to them as I thought?

I guess I just feel like i want to get my toepicks as far away from my feet as possible so I can't somehow do this again :[ goddamn forward power pulls

Also, the OP never stated what blades they had before the Coronation Aces, so it could be a number of things giving them issues adjusting in addition to balance points. If their old blade was another rocker size then that takes good adjustment period too.

I think you're right, my old blade looks really different to my new blade. This is a comparison between new and old blade that I took when I got the new skates. The old blade is a "Jackson mk V" and i think it might be very old. Weirdly enough the mounting size is actually similar but the blade itself is much longer, especially at the back. https://i.redd.it/swhb71ryo3a11.jpg

To the OP: sorry that you had this injury....a bit off-topic but I want to give you some advice for when you do come back.

...

I wish you good luck in your recovery and please take care of yourself physically and emotionally!

Thank you so much I know it will be really hard getting back on the ice after this. Having a coach who understands is a good idea! Someone else mentioned doing dance as well which seems like a good idea. It was so interesting learning about Kaetlyn Osmond and how she didn't want to skate again, and was so scared to get back on ice at all. Actually when I was in the hospital after doing this, I told my friend I'd never skate again.

To: OP

(1) The size of the drag pick per se is not dispositive. As others have mentioned, other blade factors, such as main rocker radius, spin rocker profile, and drag pick placement, come into play. The following Paramount videos on "Lift Angles" and "Blade Profiles" provide useful background info:

https://www.paramountskates.com/videos

(2) Ic3 mentioned that, in addition to the blade you are currently on, another factor is the blade you were previously on, since that affects how much of a change you need to adjust to. Similarly, you need to consider the differences between the boots you are currently on and the boots you were previously on. Several years ago, I switched from an old pair of Riedell Royals to a new pair of Jackson Elites. Both the old blades and the new blades were Coronation Ace. The Jacksons had a substantially higher heel pitch than the Riedells, and caused me to pitch up towards the toes, especially when going backwards. It took a while to shift my weight more backwards than I was used to.

In your case, you mentioned that your previous boots were 1.5 sizes too large. That's a major complication, since you now need to accommodate to a shorter blade as well.

(3) I agree with Ic3. Stick with the Coronation Ace, rather than switching to a blade with a smaller drag pick. Given your bizarre circumstances, and the host of variables involved, it's not likely that you'd be OK if your drag pick had been 1 mm shorter.

Those videos are really interesting, thanks! And yeah. Maybe I won't get rid of the Coro Aces just yet. I wonder if it's possible to get the same blade but in a longer length and still mount it to my smaller boot? I actually tend to fall off the back of my blades (while going forward) in these new blades (I think because they're shorter and also my edge work is not good!), so it's weird that I managed to fall off the back while simultaneously catching my toepick. I expected to have a adjustment period, just didn't expect to have such a severe injury while doing so. I just really don't ever want to break my leg again.

 

[Tavi...]

OP - sorry to hear about your accident and I wish you a speedy recovery.

I don’t have much advice for you, but it did occur to me that by moving from a Jackson Ultima blade to a Coro Ace blade, in addition to everything else, you went from and 8’ to a 7’ rocker. Perhaps you would feel more comfortable in an intermediate blade with an 8’ rocker such as the Ultima Legacy. Everyone’s different, but I moved from a beginner Jackson blade to the Legacy and found that because they are higher off the ice I actually had fewer issues with the toe picks, despite the fact that they’re larger. I haven’t worn Coro Aces so can’t compare them, but if you still find it difficult to adjust to them when you return to the ice, you might consider moving back to an 8’ rocker.

 

[1111bm]

Maybe it wasn't because of the toepick, that you got stuck in the ice? Maybe you got stuck in a rut and this would have happened with any type of blade? Because that would be a 'typical' incident that would result in twisting your ankle and I've heard about this type of accident quite a few times now.
Because you mentioned, that you actually stopped tripping over your toepicks, so it doesn't sound like you're struggling with the toepick on your Coro Aces.

I'm surprised that you tend to fall backwards so much, because I thought that as a beginner people usually tend to instinctively lean forwards too much and that causes them to catch their toepick once in a while (but since they will fall forwards on their knees, they don't twist and break their foot)...

Maybe you don't have enough knee bend to find the correct position over your blades and end up putting too much weight on your heels? Maybe your boots are laced up too tight at the top, preventing you from doing a deep knee bend? I think those are things you could also consider, once you return to the ice, and I hope that you will find the courage to do so!

 

[tstop4me]

Maybe I won't get rid of the Coro Aces just yet. I wonder if it's possible to get the same blade but in a longer length and still mount it to my smaller boot? I actually tend to fall off the back of my blades (while going forward) in these new blades (I think because they're shorter and also my edge work is not good!), so it's weird that I managed to fall off the back while simultaneously catching my toepick. I expected to have a adjustment period, just didn't expect to have such a severe injury while doing so. I just really don't ever want to break my leg again.

<<Emphasis added>> I wouldn't recommend doing that. Part of your problem is that your balance is all screwed up because of all the time you spent skating on boots that were too big. You want blades properly matched to your current (presumably, properly fitting) boots; and you need to learn proper balance on the right boot-blade combo. If you intentionally mount blades that are too long, you will create other problems; for example, the position of the sweet spot will be thrown off, and you'll have difficulties with spins.

There are blades with longer heels (such as Wilson Gold Seal and copies), but they are too advanced for you at your current stage.

 

[treesprite]

<<Emphasis added>> I wouldn't recommend doing that. Part of your problem is that your balance is all screwed up because of all the time you spent skating on boots that were too big. You want blades properly matched to your current (presumably, properly fitting) boots; and you need to learn proper balance on the right boot-blade combo. If you intentionally mount blades that are too long, you will create other problems; for example, the position of the sweet spot will be thrown off, and you'll have difficulties with spins.

There are blades with longer heels (such as Wilson Gold Seal and copies), but they are too advanced for you at your current stage.

For a while I had my new blades put on my old boots which are 3/4th of a size smaller than the new boots. The blade plates suck out past the ends of my boot heels. But I still had an easier time on them than I did with the Legacy blades that I had been using (though I was always worried that the backs of my blades would catch each other). When the new blades went on the new boots, there was really no noticable difference, and I was already partly adjusted to the blades.