- Joined
- May 15, 2009
There are soccer referees in North America?
Yes, of course we have a few.
They are more or less on par with your Euro skating judges.
There are soccer referees in North America?
Did you read about SLC?
And this is the second time you have used the same argument - that any fixing/cheating is only related to a single event and by the judges on it's specific panel.
Why did Cinquanta and other very high ranking IOC officials promise to eliminate "something that you claim did not exist." ?????????
Perhaps we just have totally different opinions about this.
I don't know if things are getting better or worse regarding corruption between the 6.0 system and the CoP system. It's hard for me to make a judgment, because a) I wasn't alive for most of Figure Skating's history, and b) it would be hard to quantify and measure, in any case.The second point at which I disagree with Mr. Thompson is his believe that things are getting better under the new judgijg system and that the public is coming around to this belief, too. In my opinion, neither of these claims is true.
Scoring systems don't cheat. People cheat.
? No, I think we have the same opinion about this, which is why I am so puzzled about your responses.
Maybe a little historical perspective will help.
In 1976 the entire Soviet judging cadre was summarily banned from judging any ISU competition for one year, because of blatant bias in favor of Russian skaters.
Here is a good (if somewhat one-sided) article about this.
[Hmm. I don;t seem to be able to post a link directly to the page, but if you Google "soviet figure skating judges banned 1980" it is the first reference that comes up.]
My point is that biased judging, political deals, etc., have plagued figure skating since the beginning. The quotes by Cinquanta and the IOC about cleaning up the mess after Salt Lake City were nothing new.
It would seem to fit into the current geographic scheme of things to use an equal number of judges from Europe, Asia, and North America on every panel for each discipline.
Or maybe add an Australian judge so USA or Canada would not get to use two judges.
Except that there are only 3 ISU members in North America, so if the "equal number of judges" from each of those regions was 3, then the North American countries would always each have a judge on the panel. Whereas a European country would only get a judge on the panel once out of every 10 or more competitions.
And how many qualified ice dance judges are there from Asian countries, or from Mexico for that matter?
Would it perhaps make more sense to divide the panels by language groups rather than geographical location? E.g., the British judges are more likely to have cultural tastes more in common with the Australians, Americans, and Canadians than with most other Europeans.
If we agree about certain things - I don't think we agree about the current makeup of the judging panels.
At times it feels wrong to watch skating as much to see if the judging is fair - than for the skating itself.
I agree.
Take that, haters!The country with the best record, by this measure, was Russia. Maybe Russia had so many deals going on that they didn’t have to prop up their own skaters.:
In 1999 Estonia joined Canada as the worst and Greece was the best. (I’m not sure how much opportunity Greece had to cheat in favor of Greek skaters, but anyway…)
http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/rules/natbias.htm (scroll down to the bottom)
http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/rules/natbias2.htm
Take that, haters!
This statistic is seriously cool, I haven't seen it before. Thanks for it!
This statistic is seriously cool, I haven't seen it before. Thanks for it!
I would replace the word "bias" with "discrepancy". To add to your "possible interpretation", maybe Russia did prop up their own skaters, but they had "assistance" so they didn't have as much evident discrepancy from the "average of the "international panel".By the way, here are a couple of studies form the 6.0 era (1998 and 1999) that analyzed national bias. In 1998 the worst offenders, in terms of scoring their countrymen higher than the average of the international panel, were
Denmark
China
Japan
Canada
The country with the best record, by this measure, was Russia. Maybe Russia had so many deals going on that they didn’t have to prop up their own skaters.:
...maybe Russia did prop up their own skaters, but they had "assistance" so they didn't have as much evident discrepancy from the "average of the "international panel"
The 6.0 scoring system was very flawed and obscured.
The CoP scoring system is less obscured, but imbalanced, and remains somewhat flawed (although I would contend it is less flawed, as far as allowing for human error/bias.) The disagreeable judgments are more a product of systematic error.
Your argument would be much more convincing if you put ten question marks after this quote instead of only nine. With 10, that might make it seem that your quote is actually quoting something that I said.
What?! You are worrying poor Patrick and poor Evan? I am thinking that they might be the one who will be over marked. Let's start a debate on who will be over marked.
Seriously, I think if Patrick or Evan gets gold, it is not normal. So stop crying on something that hasn't happened yet. May quad win!
Yeah and also watch the Eurovision song contest and tell me how unified and friendly Europe is when scoring
Ant
Thanks - nice articles. But it is also quite clear that Canadians are in no mood for another cheating scandal either.
Huh? There will be a big cheating scandal but this time it will favor the Canadians, so most will support it.