Four Continents: question on title

[CaroLiza_fan]

Once upon time (1923 to 1971) there was a North American Championships contested between Canada and the United States. Dick Button (USA) and Barbara Ann Scott (CAN) enjoy the distinction of being the only skaters simultaneousy to hold the titles North American champion, European champeon, world champion and Olympic champion (1947-48. The next year the ISU disallowed non-Europeans from competing in "Europeans.")

Ah. I had heard that about Dick Button before, but I didn't realise that Barbara Ann Scott had done it as well.

The North American Chamnpionships were discontinued after 1971 amid charges on both sides that the judges always favored the country (USA or Canada) where the competition was held that year -- although if you look at the year-by-year list of winners and medallists, it is hard to see any evidence that this was the case. The real reason seems to be that Canada was in the process of preparing its own go-it-alone approach featuring their showpiece competion, Skate Canada International. The United States countered a few years later with Skate America.

To be honest, I can understand why Canada would do that (and why America would follow suit). Whilst having a duel between neighbours / traditional rivals can be exciting at first, people can lose interest after it has been going a while. (Mind you, the Oxford-Cambridge Boat Race is still going strong after more than 165 years.) And, as seems to be the case here, how people perceive it, whether that perception is correct or not, can affect it's popularity.

I can imagine there would be a wider range of people interested in an open competition than there would be in a duel. And, hence, it would be more profitable for the organisers.

Of course, back then there were only two countries in the Americas where skaters came from. (Were there ever any skaters that represented Newfoundland before it joined Canada? That is, in any event). But a lot of other countries in the Americas now have figure skaters. So, a Pan-American Championships may be viable nowadays. Of course, it would still be American and Canadian skaters that dominate the top of the results tables. But, having a Major Championship relatively close to home (and in a similar time zone!) every year would probably generate more interest amongst people from those Small Fed countries, both at home and in ex-pat communities in America and Canada, than 4 Continents currently does.

Unfortunately, as we all know, it all boils down to the cost to hold it. And finding a space in an already jam-packed calendar. So, I can't see an extra Major appearing any time soon.

But, I can still dream!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Rebecca Moose]

I will not stand for shirene human erasure on goldenskate, not now, not in the past, not in the future!!!!

 

[Mathman]

^ This South African skater shares two things in common with Michelle Kwan: Both have 9 national championships and both competed at the 1998 Olympics.

 

[Diana Delafield]

I will not stand for shirene human erasure on goldenskate, not now, not in the past, not in the future!!!!

How could I have forgotten! She may have been low in the rankings, but she was beautiful to watch .

 

[Diana Delafield]

Ah. I had heard that about Dick Button before, but I didn't realise that Barbara Ann Scott had done it as well.



To be honest, I can understand why Canada would do that (and why America would follow suit). Whilst having a duel between neighbours / traditional rivals can be exciting at first, people can lose interest after it has been going a while. (Mind you, the Oxford-Cambridge Boat Race is still going strong after more than 165 years.)

North Americans was not taken anywhere near as seriously as Europeans by the skaters involved, more like an extra warm-up between their national championships and Worlds. The format I recall was six entries in each category, all the medallists from each of the two countries. I wasn't paying much attention to competition gossip at that time, but there seemed to be two camps, one that said the host country's skaters were favoured each year, and the other cynically said the gold medals were always equally divided, two events to each country. If, say, the ladies skated last, and up to that point Canada had won the men and the pairs and America the dance, well then there was no point hanging around to watch the ladies
because the American woman was going to win that event no matter what befell her on that evening. It was their turn.

Of course, back then there were only two countries in the Americas where skaters came from. (Were there ever any skaters that represented Newfoundland before it joined Canada? That is, in any event).

I doubt if they could claim to be a country, even if they had had serious skaters before union in 1949. There were rinks and more or less self-taught figure skating, but nothing serious until the 1970s. And Nfld wasn't a separate country. It was a self-governing British colony, until the money ran out during the Depression and Nfld and Labrador became a dependent territory governed by Gt Britain until 1949. Before I was born, but my older brothers remembered school pageants celebrating the addition of the territory as Canada's tenth province in that year. By the 1970s and from then on, any Newfie skaters wanting to compete nationally moved, usually to Ontario, to train. (As a side note, Tanith Belbin's mother was one of those, or so I've been told.)

 

[Mathman]

Mind you, the Oxford-Cambridge Boat Race is still going strong after more than 165 years.

My favorite coxswain: Stephen Hawking, He didn't make the big race but he coxed the intramural (Oxford) novice eights to victory in 1961.

https://heartheboatsing.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/pic-2.jpg?w=723

 

[Diana Delafield]

My favorite coxswain: Stephen Hawking, He didn't make the big race but he coxed the intramural (Oxford) novice eights to victory in 1961.

https://heartheboatsing.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/pic-2.jpg?w=723

Complete with appropriate boater .

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

North Americans was not taken anywhere near as seriously as Europeans by the skaters involved, more like an extra warm-up between their national championships and Worlds. The format I recall was six entries in each category, all the medallists from each of the two countries. I wasn't paying much attention to competition gossip at that time, but there seemed to be two camps, one that said the host country's skaters were favoured each year, and the other cynically said the gold medals were always equally divided, two events to each country. If, say, the ladies skated last, and up to that point Canada had won the men and the pairs and America the dance, well then there was no point hanging around to watch the ladies because the American woman was going to win that event no matter what befell her on that evening. It was their turn.

My goodness! No wonder it wasn't taken seriously!

I doubt if they could claim to be a country, even if they had had serious skaters before union in 1949. There were rinks and more or less self-taught figure skating, but nothing serious until the 1970s. And Nfld wasn't a separate country. It was a self-governing British colony, until the money ran out during the Depression and Nfld and Labrador became a dependent territory governed by Gt Britain until 1949. Before I was born, but my older brothers remembered school pageants celebrating the addition of the territory as Canada's tenth province in that year. By the 1970s and from then on, any Newfie skaters wanting to compete nationally moved, usually to Ontario, to train. (As a side note, Tanith Belbin's mother was one of those, or so I've been told.)

Just one thing, though. Newfoundland had the same higher status (Dominion) as Australia, Canada, India, Ireland, New Zealand and South Africa had. And nobody stopped them competing as themselves in sporting events before they got independence.

But, I was just curious because, well, you know the way that I like to champion smaller skating countries. And I guess that Newfoundland would have fallen into that category back in the day. I've never really heard much about skaters from there. Apart from Kaetlyn Osmond, of course. I really liked her (hey, she was one of my many "wives"), and that is another part of the reason I am interested in finding out more about skating and it's history in that part of the world.

I liked Tanith too, so that is very interesting to hear about her mother. I've been digging around to find out more, and have found that Michelle McKinlay (or is it MacKinley? I've seen both spellings used for her) trained at the Prince Of Wales Club in St. John's. I haven't been able to find out if she was actually from there, but given what you say about skaters from NL usually moving to train elsewhere, I would say it is likely that she was local.

Just one final thing. I LOVE the term "Newfie" that you used to refer to the people of NL. Is that the common term? I really hope they don't consider it derogotory, because I think it is so cute!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Diana Delafield]

Just one thing, though. Newfoundland had the same higher status (Dominion) as Australia, Canada, India, Ireland, New Zealand and South Africa had. And nobody stopped them competing as themselves in sporting events before they got independence.

Um. Now you're getting into the really tangled question of the definition of a dominion in the British Empire, a subject which took up a large part of the basic Canadian history course we took in first-year university (British Columbia, for me). So it's sort of yes and no. Maybe they could have competed in something like the Empire Games from the Games' start in 1930 as a self-governing British colony (aka a dominion) until 1933 when their dire financial state put the colony back under British control? But they didn't. Nobody had the money to bother about getting seriously into sports. (Except hockey, of course. ) The other countries using the term "dominion" all had different definitions, and a different timeline for becoming more self-reliant.

But, I was just curious because, well, you know the way that I like to champion smaller skating countries. And I guess that Newfoundland would have fallen into that category back in the day. I've never really heard much about skaters from there. Apart from Kaetlyn Osmond, of course. I really liked her (hey, she was one of my many "wives"), and that is another part of the reason I am interested in finding out more about skating and it's history in that part of the world.

It's a very short history. There was a Canadian junior men's champion in 2011, Joey Russell, and the Babb siblings were junior dance champions in 1988.

I liked Tanith too, so that is very interesting to hear about her mother. I've been digging around to find out more, and have found that Michelle McKinlay (or is it MacKinley? I've seen both spellings used for her)

Scottish families (and the Scots in the Maritime provinces can out-Scottish the "real" Scots any day; there are more Gaelic speakers in Nova Scotia than in Scotland itself) were not fussy about the spelling of their names until quite recently, in historic terms. Scottish surnames (now you're getting into my specialty field of my PhD studies in linguistics) didn't settle down into consistent spellings until the 20th century and not all that settled even then. My McKinlay/McKinley great-grandparents used both spellings also and would have thought you daft if you'd tried to pin them down to one.

trained at the Prince Of Wales Club in St. John's. I haven't been able to find out if she was actually from there, but given what you say about skaters from NL usually moving to train elsewhere, I would say it is likely that she was local.

Actually I believe both Tanith's parents were from the province and skated there, but it was her mother who was into competition. They ended up in Ontario, and Tanith was born there.

Just one final thing. I LOVE the term "Newfie" that you used to refer to the people of NL. Is that the common term? I really hope they don't consider it derogotory, because I think it is so cute!

Haven't you heard of Newfies? It's what they call themselves, as does everyone else in Canada. It's THE common term for people -- and anything else -- from the province, the full term "Newfoundland and Labrador" being too much of a mouthful. (Like you'll rarely hear my province, British Columbia, called anything but BC, and Prince Edward Island is PEI or The Island.) The term Newfie is not the slightest bit derogatory. The huge St Bernard-like dogs of that breed are also commonly referred to as Newfies.

CaroLiza_fan



Just one thing, though. Newfoundland had the same higher status (Dominion) as Australia, Canada, India, Ireland, New Zealand and South Africa had. And nobody stopped them competing as themselves in sporting events before they got independence.

But, I was just curious because, well, you know the way that I like to champion smaller skating countries. And I guess that Newfoundland would have fallen into that category back in the day. I've never really heard much about skaters from there. Apart from Kaetlyn Osmond, of course. I really liked her (hey, she was one of my many "wives"), and that is another part of the reason I am interested in finding out more about skating and it's history in that part of the world.

I liked Tanith too, so that is very interesting to hear about her mother. I've been digging around to find out more, and have found that Michelle McKinlay (or is it MacKinley? I've seen both spellings used for her) trained at the Prince Of Wales Club in St. John's. I haven't been able to find out if she was actually from there, but given what you say about skaters from NL usually moving to train elsewhere, I would say it is likely that she was local.

Just one final thing. I LOVE the term "Newfie" that you used to refer to the people of NL. Is that the common term? I really hope they don't consider it derogotory, because I think it is so cute!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Personally, I have long thought that there should be three "Continental" level Major Championships:

• European Championships (Europe)
• Pan-American Championships (North and South America)
• 4 Continents for the rest of the World (Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Australasia)

Apart from anything else, it would make travel easier for the participants. As it is, no matter where it is held, there will be lots of skaters having to travel to the other side of the world to take part in 4 Continents. For Small Feds in particular, the travel costs can be prohibitive.

And with carbon emissions of the airline industry under the spotlight, it would look better for the ISU to not have so many skaters travelling to the other side of the world to take part in "their" continental championships.



And here are the participants of the first Antarctic National Championships queueing up to get onto the ice for their Group Warm-Up:

CaroLiza_fan

It would make absolutely no sense to have a Pan-American championship in figure skating. Right now, there are only 4 countries that would be applicable to fielding skaters to 4CC, and the Mexican and Brazilian skaters aren't exactly competing for medals. Realistically, it would just be the US and Canada duking it out for medals every year. Pan-Am Champs is feasible in gymnastics specifically because there are athletes from South and Central America easily competing with and often beating US and Canadian athletes in that sport, and from multiple countries too, but that currently isn't the case in FS.

It would make far more sense to have a separate Asian championships, as Japan, Korea and even China are similarly competitive across different disciplines, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan have both managed to take medals at 4CC and Kazakhstan in more than 1 discipline, skaters from South East Asia have qualified for the Olympics in the past, even North Korea had a solid pairs team at one point, and while countries like India and UAE may not have had medal hopefuls there, they have still fielded competitors, plus Turkey may decide to swap to an Asian Championship from Euros if they think they have better chances there (but they probably wouldn't actually have better chances). Probably about half of the athletes at 4CC this year if not more are from Asia.

Edit: I just checked and 17/26 of the women at 4CC this year were representing Asian countries, with 7 Asian countries represented in women. Comparatively, only 7/26 of the women represented countries in North or South America, with only 3 countries represented across both continents, and only 1 single woman representing South America. There were 2 women representing Australia, so the country of Australia had more representation at 4CC in women's singles than the entire country of South America.

Further edit, because apparently this is how I'm spending my lunch (hey, they're interesting stats):

* Of the 14 countries represented across all disciplines at 4CC this year, 9 of them are in Asia - almost 2/3.
* Of the 81 total entries (pairs and dances teams counted as 1 entry), 47 are from countries in Asia - more than half
* There are 5 countries which were able to field entries for all 4 disciples, being the USA, Canada, Japan, China and Australia. Only the USA, Canada and China were able to field three entries for each discipline.
* For men's and women's singles, 17/26 and 18/27 competitors respectively represented countries located in Asia - more than half the field in each discipline.
* For pairs, 6/12 entries came from either the USA or Canada, meaning a straight half of the pairs field represented North America.
* Only 6 countries were represented in pairs - two in North America, three in Asia and one in Oceania.
* In ice dance, 7/16 entries represented countries located in Asia, and 7/16 entries represented countries located in North and South America (2/16 were Australian).
* Only 7 countries were represented in ice dance - three in Asia, three in the Americas, and one in Oceania.
*Weirdly, does appear to be ice dance that is most balanced in which regions can field entrants, although I would be surprised if any team from outside of North America makes the top 5, or even really the top 6.
* If you were to remove countries located in Asia from 4CC this year, there would have been 9 entries in women's, 9 in men's, 7 in pairs and 9 in ice dance - literally less than in a single GP stage.

 

[lariko]

4CC is already small, why split it any further? I am confused. It's Euros that could use some reshuffling

 

[JustSomeGuy]

4CC is already small, why split it any further? I am confused. It's Euros that could use some reshuffling

Yeah, after seeing the split, I actually agree with you. See my last bullet-point on the above comment - an Asian Championships could arguably survive, and might even see countries like Japan or South Korea upping their game in ice dance/pairs with medals becoming more attainable without North American teams there, but a 4CC without Asia would be smaller than a Grand Prix stage and would likely fizzle out due to lack of entries.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Um. Now you're getting into the really tangled question of the definition of a dominion in the British Empire, a subject which took up a large part of the basic Canadian history course we took in first-year university (British Columbia, for me). So it's sort of yes and no. Maybe they could have competed in something like the Empire Games from the Games' start in 1930 as a self-governing British colony (aka a dominion) until 1933 when their dire financial state put the colony back under British control? But they didn't. Nobody had the money to bother about getting seriously into sports. (Except hockey, of course. ) The other countries using the term "dominion" all had different definitions, and a different timeline for becoming more self-reliant.

Sorry for opening a can of worms.

It's a very short history. There was a Canadian junior men's champion in 2011, Joey Russell, and the Babb siblings were junior dance champions in 1988.

Thank you. I'll look them up.

Scottish families (and the Scots in the Maritime provinces can out-Scottish the "real" Scots any day; there are more Gaelic speakers in Nova Scotia than in Scotland itself) were not fussy about the spelling of their names until quite recently, in historic terms. Scottish surnames (now you're getting into my specialty field of my PhD studies in linguistics) didn't settle down into consistent spellings until the 20th century and not all that settled even then. My McKinlay/McKinley great-grandparents used both spellings also and would have thought you daft if you'd tried to pin them down to one.

Aye, I've found that myself when researching family history. My Mum's surname is one of those names that is commonly spelt a couple of ways. And when looking at old census records, some of the forms had the name spelt one way, and others had it spelt the other way. A lot of people wouldn't have been able to write in those days, so it was just spelt whatever way the canvesser felt like spelling it.

And I am not surprised with what you say about Nova Scotia being more Scottish than Scotland. I suppose the Scottish had the same approach to emigrating as the Irish. When they got off the boat, they just stayed there and didn't go any further.

There was a very interesting series that BBC NI made a few years ago, "Brave New World", where local radio presenter William Crawley went to various places that people from NI emigrated to. The first series was in New Zealand; the second series was in Canada; the third series was in America; and the fourth series was in Australia. And I particularly remember when he was in a coastal settlement (I think it was on Newfoundland island), and it was just like somewhere over here. The people talked the same way and had similar accents as we do in NI; they had the same customs and traditions as here; etc.

I have to admit, one of the things I liked about Kaetlyn was that when I listened to her being interviewed, I could hear traces of a Northern Ireland accent. And the first time I noticed that, I was straight online trying to find out about her family, convinced that they must have been recent arrivals to Canada from NI. But, after watching "Brave New World", I think it is more a case of the environment she grew up in having much older ties to NI.

If you can find somewhere to watch the series, I would definitely recommend it. Somebody like you who is interested in linguistics, and who has Scottish ancestry themselves, would find it fascinating.

Actually I believe both Tanith's parents were from the province and skated there, but it was her mother who was into competition. They ended up in Ontario, and Tanith was born there.

Very interesting. So, she is a NL girl through and through.

I love finding out these things about people's backgrounds that you would never know if you were just looking at where they were born.

Take for example one of the skaters that I was planning to adopt. She was born in Switzerland, and represented Switzerland. But her background is not Swiss. She actually has a Finnish mother and an Irish father. And if you didn't know already, the only way you would find out is if you recognised that her first name is Finnish (Milla), and her surname is Irish (O'Brien).

Haven't you heard of Newfies? It's what they call themselves, as does everyone else in Canada. It's THE common term for people -- and anything else -- from the province, the full term "Newfoundland and Labrador" being too much of a mouthful. (Like you'll rarely hear my province, British Columbia, called anything but BC, and Prince Edward Island is PEI or The Island.) The term Newfie is not the slightest bit derogatory. The huge St Bernard-like dogs of that breed are also commonly referred to as Newfies.

I'm afraid I hadn't heard of Newfies. But, I'm sure that there are lots of nicknames around the world that both of us haven't heard of. Because of your background and interests, you probably do know the following. But people from Belfast would probably refer to me as a cultchie. And I've always considered that as derogatory.

I have to admit, I am guilty of finding the full name "Newfoundland And Labrador" a mouthful, and I usually drop the "Labrador" part. And I hate that I do that, as it makes the people on the mainland feel like they are second class citizens compared to the islanders. It's like when the UK is referred to as "Great Britain" in sports. It makes us in Northern Ireland feel like we don't matter.

To be honest, I have often thought that it would be handier on the tongue if the island and the mainland were separate provinces. But, I am sure that there are very good (probably economic) reasons why that has never happened.

Anyway, this has been a very interesting conversation, and I have learnt a lot from it. Thank you for picking up on my question and replying.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

It would make absolutely no sense to have a Pan-American championship in figure skating. Right now, there are only 4 countries that would be applicable to fielding skaters to 4CC, and the Mexican and Brazilian skaters aren't exactly competing for medals. Realistically, it would just be the US and Canada duking it out for medals every year. Pan-Am Champs is feasible in gymnastics specifically because there are athletes from South and Central America easily competing with and often beating US and Canadian athletes in that sport, and from multiple countries too, but that currently isn't the case in FS.

True, it will be dominated by America and Canada. But, who cares?

I would love to see the Winter Commonwealth Games revived, even though I know fine well that Canada would dominate it. Because it would give places that aren't able to compete in other events due to their status the opportunity to compete.

Just remember, it's not the winning that matters, it's the taking part. And if there is a big event relatively close-by, it will generate interest. And cash-strapped small Feds are more likely to send skaters to a relatively close event than one half-way around the world.

And I think you are a bit unfair saying that America and Canada would only be joined by Brazil and Mexico.

• What about Chile with Yae-Mia NEIRA SCHÄRER, who we have seen at quite a few Senior competitions?
• Or Peru with Sorami TANAKA, who we have seen at quite a few Senior competitions, and Sara ZOFREA, who we have seen at a Junior GP and some other Junior competitions this season?
• Or Ecuador with Valeska Martina OÑA PROANO, who we have seen at a Junior GP and some other Junior competitions this season?

In the past we've seen skaters representing Puerto Rico (most famously Rohene Ward), and some other Caribbean island nations.

It would make far more sense to have a separate Asian championships, as Japan, Korea and even China are similarly competitive across different disciplines, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan have both managed to take medals at 4CC and Kazakhstan in more than 1 discipline, skaters from South East Asia have qualified for the Olympics in the past, even North Korea had a solid pairs team at one point, and while countries like India and UAE may not have had medal hopefuls there, they have still fielded competitors, plus Turkey may decide to swap to an Asian Championship from Euros if they think they have better chances there (but they probably wouldn't actually have better chances). Probably about half of the athletes at 4CC this year if not more are from Asia.

In terms of evening out numbers, that makes sense.

But logistically it would be a disaster. If Asia was split off into it's own Championship, it would mean the skaters from Africa and Australasia having to travel all the way to North America every year for their Continental Championships. And, frankly, they aren't going to do it. Asia is much closer to them.

I'm all about making things easier for the Small Feds.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to the likes of America, Canada, China, Japan and South Korea where their Continental Championships are held. They will send skaters regardless of where it is, because they can afford to do so. But it does matter to the Small Feds.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[el henry]

Okay I'm going off topic again.

Joey Russell? The Joey Russell, choregrapher to Utashin, Boyang Jin, Corey Circelli, is a Newfie?

I don't know why, but I'm impressed.

 

[StitchMonkey]

If you are interested in African figure skaters, you may enjoy reading about Elladj Baldé and his trip to Africa.


https://skatecanada.ca/2015/07/balde-finds-his-roots-in-west-african-guinea/

Awesome skater, would have loved to have seen more from him. I recall he did meet with someone in the government related to the Olympics while he was there. Not gonna lie... still would love him to represents Guinea as a passion project.

​

 

[Diana Delafield]

If you are interested in African figure skaters, you may enjoy reading about Elladj Baldé and his trip to Africa.


https://skatecanada.ca/2015/07/balde-finds-his-roots-in-west-african-guinea/

Awesome skater, would have loved to have seen more from him. I recall he did meet with someone in the government related to the Olympics while he was there. Not gonna lie... still would love him to represents Guinea as a passion project.

​

Or Robin Szolkowy might have been able to represent Tanzania thanks to his father, although a few fuzzy details would have had to be overlooked, like them not even meeting until Robin was an adult .

 

[skatingguy]

Or Robin Szolkowy might have been able to represent Tanzania thanks to his father, although a few fuzzy details would have had to be overlooked, like them not even meeting until Robin was an adult .

Or Tanzania not being a member of the ISU.

 

[moonvine]

It would make absolutely no sense to have a Pan-American championship in figure skating. Right now, there are only 4 countries that would be applicable to fielding skaters to 4CC, and the Mexican and Brazilian skaters aren't exactly competing for medals. Realistically, it would just be the US and Canada duking it out for medals every year. Pan-Am Champs is feasible in gymnastics specifically because there are athletes from South and Central America easily competing with and often beating US and Canadian athletes in that sport, and from multiple countries too, but that currently isn't the case in FS.

It would make far more sense to have a separate Asian championships, as Japan, Korea and even China are similarly competitive across different disciplines, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan have both managed to take medals at 4CC and Kazakhstan in more than 1 discipline, skaters from South East Asia have qualified for the Olympics in the past, even North Korea had a solid pairs team at one point, and while countries like India and UAE may not have had medal hopefuls there, they have still fielded competitors, plus Turkey may decide to swap to an Asian Championship from Euros if they think they have better chances there (but they probably wouldn't actually have better chances). Probably about half of the athletes at 4CC this year if not more are from Asia.

Edit: I just checked and 17/26 of the women at 4CC this year were representing Asian countries, with 7 Asian countries represented in women. Comparatively, only 7/26 of the women represented countries in North or South America, with only 3 countries represented across both continents, and only 1 single woman representing South America. There were 2 women representing Australia, so the country of Australia had more representation at 4CC in women's singles than the entire country of South America.

Further edit, because apparently this is how I'm spending my lunch (hey, they're interesting stats):

* Of the 14 countries represented across all disciplines at 4CC this year, 9 of them are in Asia - almost 2/3.
* Of the 81 total entries (pairs and dances teams counted as 1 entry), 47 are from countries in Asia - more than half
* There are 5 countries which were able to field entries for all 4 disciples, being the USA, Canada, Japan, China and Australia. Only the USA, Canada and China were able to field three entries for each discipline.
* For men's and women's singles, 17/26 and 18/27 competitors respectively represented countries located in Asia - more than half the field in each discipline.
* For pairs, 6/12 entries came from either the USA or Canada, meaning a straight half of the pairs field represented North America.
* Only 6 countries were represented in pairs - two in North America, three in Asia and one in Oceania.
* In ice dance, 7/16 entries represented countries located in Asia, and 7/16 entries represented countries located in North and South America (2/16 were Australian).
* Only 7 countries were represented in ice dance - three in Asia, three in the Americas, and one in Oceania.
*Weirdly, does appear to be ice dance that is most balanced in which regions can field entrants, although I would be surprised if any team from outside of North America makes the top 5, or even really the top 6.
* If you were to remove countries located in Asia from 4CC this year, there would have been 9 entries in women's, 9 in men's, 7 in pairs and 9 in ice dance - literally less than in a single GP stage.

I think an Asian Championships would be a great idea. As it is half the skaters have to fly across the world to reach 4CCs no matter where it is held.

 

[Diana Delafield]

I think an Asian Championships would be a great idea. As it is half the skaters have to fly across the world to reach 4CCs no matter where it is held.

Where do they draw the north-south line in Asia as to which countries' skaters compete in Europeans and which are included in 4CC? Obviously it's not going to be in a straight line down a single longitude, but how is it decided? On a map, the dividing line seems to run down approximately between Israel (Europeans) and Kazakhstan (4CC), but maybe it's decided more by convenience of travel. Or are there political reasons?