GPF a little flat this year?

[chuckm]

chuckm, some of the reason ice dance scores are way down is that the requirements to get the tech levels are up. We no longer have the top 4 or 5 jr teams all getting all level 4's in the FD

Yes, every time the Dance scores start topping the 100 mark, the ISU finds a way to cut them back down.

But still, the 'extra credit' in the PCS for additional lifts and moves to replace the TES/PCS for the last element in the OD and FD is nowhere to be seen.

 

[dorispulaski]

Yes, every time the Dance scores start topping the 100 mark, the ISU finds a way to cut them back down.

But still, the 'extra credit' in the PCS for additional lifts and moves to replace the TES/PCS for the last element in the OD and FD is nowhere to be seen.

True, but I regard that as a plus. I got hugely tired of dancers who couldn't handle the technik winning because they got PCS of 9.5

 

[gold12345]

In my case the problem was the TV coverage too. In Argentina there is no TV coverage at all, maybe they show the top 3 but 4 months later, so it's pretty much the same. Youtube keeps deleting all the vids and now the Dailymotion is starting to do the same, so I can't really comment on any of the threads because I have no idea how they skated.
Also the new rules and the scoring system is making the sport less interesting to watch. The skaters have to pay attention to a lot of things to get level 4 or 3 in everything, the lifts, the steps, the spins... and the jumps and of course they have to have good transitions. But how can a skater do a really enjoyable program with so many things on his/her mind? I think this is one of the problems why skaters can't actually skate two clean programs and why so many of them end up injured.
And now we have the UR calls and the edge calls that make the sport even less interesting, what's the point of basically show that just some skaters are able to jump all the triples? or that half of the skaters have never jumped a real flip or a real lutz? and they get so penalized for that...
But oh well... since I'm crazy about this sport this doesn't really affect me. But the truth is that for the fans that are not addicted now it's a lot less interesting to watch.

I agree completely with this. I've watched all the skating that I've wanted to on the internet, but it's a lot different than getting to see it on your larger screen hi-def TV (and being able to record it, save it, and watch it again at your leisure). I even miss getting to see skater interviews and fluff pieces on TV. I never liked that stuff when it took away from showing the actual skating, but now I kind of miss it because I don't feel I "know" these skaters as well. I'm also frustrated with the disappearance of skating videos online.

I am annoyed with the overabundance of edge calls, UR calls, and the levels of everything. There is far less effortless and carefree skating than there used to be because the skaters are constantly focused on all the rules. I like that they've tried to take some of subjectivity out of it, but I wish they would be less harsh and stop over analyzing each element. I get so frustrated when I see clean programs that get scored harshly because they got a Level 1 in a spiral, or something like that. Despite all this, I remain a huge fan... It's just more annoying now.

 

[R.D.]

haha...this is quite funny because this is only the second time I've visited this sub-forum (the first time was to check results, and I didn't even feel compelled to comment on them). I think the whole season fell flat, at least for me. I think the Torino Olympic season was the last time I actually felt excited about this. This cycle (2006-present) has just been boring compared to the last one (2002-2006). And don't get me wrong, the previous cycle had its low points as well (mostly the withdrawals during the GP seasons) but this one, bleh.

And I can't put my finger on why. I said earlier that part of it is due to the American women not doing well. But there might be more to it than that...and that is that I feel that competitive skating, overall, has lost that spark, that thrill, that excitement. I miss that thrill I used to get when I watched a major competition. And even if I tried to like this current crop, something about it just isn't the same any more. And I'm sorry to say this.

Even though Worlds is in the US this year, and we'll get at least a little bit of network coverage, I wouldn't be able to find any other reason to watch it than it's in nice High-Def TV.

 

[Kasey]

The Ladies were obvious for gold.

The Men were a surprise.

The Pairs were the same old groups

The Skate Dance, also the same old groups.

I don't believe there will be much difference at Worlds.

There were two pair teams who had never made the GPF before, and I believe K/S had only been there once. Not sure why that would be the "same old groups", other than the fact that veteran teams medaled.

It is kind of hard for the GPF to not fall flat when everyone makes it to the event, only to have multiple withdrawals there (Novitski, Agosto, Joubert), as well as ones who would have been better to just withdraw (Trankov). It's a shame that illness and injury had to hit right at that time, both for the skaters and the fans.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There were two pair teams who had never made the GPF before, and I believe K/S had only been there once. Not sure why that would be the "same old groups", other than the fact that veteran teams medaled.

I don't think there were any first timers there. Everything seemed more like I've seen all this before, and therefore flat to me. No team was I anxious to see again.

 

[ManyCairns]

[whole post]

RD, sadly, I must agree. Although the men are still a draw for me. Dance has been prior to this season, though I'm worried this year because DomShabs seem to be dominating though reports of theirs skates have generally not been positive, and I don't want to go back to the old days when the results seemed so predetermined.

But the programs overall under COP are just missing so many of those beautiful quiet moments of MIF coupled with nice choreography. Heck, though I don't like a program of JUST stroke-stroke-jump, we've gone too far to the other extreme and don't get too many moments to just enjoy powerful, "soaring" strokes across the ice. Thinking here of, say, a Wylie program with poses held for several beats while gliding across the ice -- not sure those would rack up enough points to be worthwhile now!

 

[fumie_fumie]

I agree. A lot of CoP programs make skaters look like a 9-year old child with a severe case of attention deficit disorder.

 

[Sackie]

I wonder how much this discussion has to do with the fact that the US has no top female skater going into an Olympic year. Something that I can not remember being the case for as long as I have been following skating. Under the old system the US would still have ladies in the top 5 at worlds no matter what. It was just the way it was. Now at least they have to earn that rank just like any other skater. After all the US has two recent Olympic champs that probably would not have been Olympic champs had there been edge and UR calls and GOE!
In Dance under the old system the 2 Rus teams would be 1 and 2 in the world with the Fr and Ital rounding out the top 4 and V/M & D/W would still be just around the top 10 since they would still be the new Jr kids who have to wait their turn.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I cannot agree more with Red Dog... this whole season has been flat for me. I originally thought that it was due to the lack of tv coverage but upon further reflection I've come to the conclusion that I'm sick & tired of the sloppy skating.

CoP is ruining this sport and it drives me crazy that flawed programs continue to be rewarded. Yes, its awesome that Mao can do two triple axles but the idea that performing this jump superceeds her lack of a complete set of triples. The same goes for Yuna and her dynamic presence on the ice. She's inconsistant and for some reason she gets a break that Sasha never received... why is this?

And some of the threads are even more confusing to me... posters rave about how much better this current generation is on the ice but from my seat - I see skaters who wouldn't even rank in the top five a mere five years ago because they lack a complete package on the ice.

Its like the ultimate Jedi Mind Trick - "these skaters are sloppy!" "no, its far superior to the past because the technical is harder." "these skaters are great!"

And we as fans wonder why the sport is struggling - there is no more drama, excitement and shock & awe left. The federations and CoP have drained all of that out and its a shame - to both fan & skater alike.

 

[Tonichelle]

Sackie - most of the posters that are bemoaning the 'flatness' of the GPF are bigger fans of other disiplines of skating from ladies (It's my least favorite disipline)... so I don't get the need to say it's due to the fact that the US ladies team didn't do so well.

 

[R.D.]

The big problem I have with the scoring system is that a lot of the nuances (underrotations, etc.) can't really be seen on TV or in the arena during a performance, yet they matter SO MUCH to the final score. Why not penalize FALLS more (which can clearly be seen and takes away from the flow of the program) and UNDERROTATIONS less (which is just a "technicality"). Frankly, I think the whole "downgrade" business is a mess. It should be marked as a cheat (maybe a 1 point deduction, and 3 points for a fall?? something like that).

Bottom Line: You need to be able to watch a performance and be able to guess (ballpark) what score it might get based on what you saw. If you can't...well, what's the use?

It's not the end of the world. It can be fixed. But I get the feeling the ISU could care less.

 

[gold12345]

The big problem I have with the scoring system is that a lot of the nuances (underrotations, etc.) can't really be seen on TV or in the arena during a performance, yet they matter SO MUCH to the final score. Why not penalize FALLS more (which can clearly be seen and takes away from the flow of the program) and UNDERROTATIONS less (which is just a "technicality"). Frankly, I think the whole "downgrade" business is a mess. It should be marked as a cheat (maybe a 1 point deduction, and 3 points for a fall?? something like that).

Bottom Line: You need to be able to watch a performance and be able to guess (ballpark) what score it might get based on what you saw. If you can't...well, what's the use?

It's not the end of the world. It can be fixed. But I get the feeling the ISU could care less.

Exactly!

 

[Kasey]

I don't think there were any first timers there. Everything seemed more like I've seen all this before, and therefore flat to me. No team was I anxious to see again.

V/M and M/T had not been to the GPF prior to this year.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

V/M and M/T had not been to the GPF prior to this year.

True, but they didn't skate in the Finals as well as I had expected, although they both did well in their respective prior GP events.

 

[Michelle'sFan]

The big problem I have with the scoring system is that a lot of the nuances (underrotations, etc.) can't really be seen on TV or in the arena during a performance, yet they matter SO MUCH to the final score. Why not penalize FALLS more (which can clearly be seen and takes away from the flow of the program) and UNDERROTATIONS less (which is just a "technicality"). Frankly, I think the whole "downgrade" business is a mess. It should be marked as a cheat (maybe a 1 point deduction, and 3 points for a fall?? something like that).

Bottom Line: You need to be able to watch a performance and be able to guess (ballpark) what score it might get based on what you saw. If you can't...well, what's the use?

It's not the end of the world. It can be fixed. But I get the feeling the ISU could care less.

I agree--penalize FALLS more.

I'm sorry, but it just bugged me when Mao won the world title with a fall and Carolina didn't and she had a strong performance.

I like your "bottom line." Any system will have it's faults but this is getting ridiculous--I MUCH prefer the 6.0 system.

Michelle'sFan

 

[Kasey]

True, but they didn't skate in the Finals as well as I had expected, although they both did well in their respective prior GP events.

True, but that has nothing to do with what your original comment was, about how there were no first timers at the final. I simply was saying yes, there was.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

ok. no problem.

 

[Mathman]

Was it any flatter than usual?

Here's what I think is wrong with figure skating in the U.S. these days. No cheesefests! I really enjoyed those events, bring together some of the most popular skaters from the U.S. and around the world.

People made fun of these shows, but the skating was really fine. The skaters took the competitions seriously (maybe not as serious as a heart attack, but still).

They were on TV in a good afternoon time slot only a day after the competition, plus they were scattered about the country so a fan could go to one without making a several day commitment of time. Personally, I liked them. Especially compared to events like Worlds, which were always a little dry and audience-unfriendly, IMHO.

Now I think only Japan has cheesefests any more.

I hope the team challenge event will take up the slack. :yes:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Here's what I think is wrong with figure skating in the U.S. these days. No cheesefests! I really enjoyed those events, bring together some of the most popular skaters from the U.S. and around the world.

People made fun of these shows, but the skating was really fine. The skaters took the competitions seriously (maybe not as serious as a heart attack, but still).

They were on TV in a good afternoon time slot only a day after the competition, plus they were scattered about the country so a fan could go to one without making a several day commitment of time. Personally, I liked them. Especially compared to events like Worlds, which were always a little dry and audience-unfriendly, IMHO.

Now I think only Japan has cheesefests any more.

I hope the team challenge event will take up the slack. :yes:

Sunday afternoon was a great time for the Cheesefests in the USA provided they were not preempted for a seriousl golf tournament.

However, they were heavily sponsored both before the GPs and after the Worlds. Those sponsors began disappearing after the 2002 scandal when TV ratings were losing ground. Marshalls tried to save it by using a gimmic of the current TV contest shows where the public voted as well as the judges. It didn't work. Favoritism in figure skating ruled the outcome.

Japan, which I believe has a better general audience for skating picked up the Cheesefests, and made them viable. Who would stream them into the US?

I, personally, never thought much of them. They were contests signifying nothing, but there were fans who will take any skating whenever. Sad for them.