Help! Can you help me figure 1991 WC Men SP start order?

[labgoat]

Help! Can you help me figure 1991 WC Men SP start order? Finish in SP in parentheses
33 skaters, some video references, no ISU records, just clues from broadcasts...
ESP version | CAN version

1991 WC Men Short - my best guesses

1991 WC Men SP start order	Announced & visual clues, ESP - in order shown on ESP, CAN - in order shown on CAN
1 Paul Wylie USA*	ESP - announced by ESP as first to skate
2 Masakazu Kagiyama JPN*	ESP -- announced right after Wylie, not shown
3 Michael Slipchuk CAN	Michael Slipchuk CAN skated in an early group
4	Oliver Höner SUI (12)
5	Cameron Medhurst AUS (16)
6	Ralph Burghart AUT -FNR (21)
7	Jan Erik Digernes NOR – FNR (24)
8	Alexandre Geers BEL- FNR (32) shown
9	Oula Jääskeläinen FIN (13) announced after Geers, not shown
10	ESP Alexei Urmanov URS (6) - into the lead above Kajiyama
11	ESP/CAN Viktor Petrenko URS (2)
12	ESP/CAN Kurt Browning CAN (1), first to skate in his group
13	CAN Todd Eldredge USA (3)
14	Daniel Weiss GER (19) ? - black jumpsuit with neon greentrim on warmup
15	CAN Elvis Stojko CAN (6)- Elvis before Chris ESP announce 1 browning, 2 petrenko, 3 eldredge
16	ESP Christopher Bowman USA (5)- Chris before Elvis
17	tall skater dressed in black shakes hand of Bowman Henrik Walentin DEN – FNR (25)
18	ESP Péter Kovács HUN* - FNR (26) - announced many skaters have gone, hard to score without tying with another, mention of YUG judge, not gonna finish in top 20
19	ESP David Liu TPE* - FNR (27)
20	ESP? unnamed shot of dark-haired skater in white, orange and zebra stripes, black pants, Tomislav Cizmesija YUG – FNR (28) most likely
21	ESP Ronny Winkler GER (20) announced
22	ESP Jorge La Farga ESP - FNR (30)
23	Ricardo Olavarrieta MEX-FNR clip
24 Éric Millot FRA	ESP Éric Millot FRA (9) - announce 8th place, with 9 to go ESP, after Elvis
25 Cornel Gheorghe ROM	ESP Cornel Gheorghe ROM- FNR (23) -announced in 19th place, 8 to go
26 Maarten van Mechelen LUX	Maarten van Mechelen LUX-FNR
27	ESP Mirko Eichhorn GER annnounced
28 Nikolai Tonev BUL	ESP Nikolai Tonev BUL - FNR (31), 6 to go
29 Jung Sung-il ROK	ESP Jung Sung-il ROK (17)
30 Gilberto Viadana ITA	ESP Gilberto Viadana ITA (19)- see a snap shot of him
31	ESP Steven Cousins GBR (18) announced as later during Tonev skate
32	Viacheslav Zagorodniuk URS -FNR (22) - in final group
33 Petr Barna TCH (4)	CAN Petr Barna TCH (4) announced as the last skater

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Wikipedia gives results for the entire field, annually. If you're looking for specific start orders, you might be able to research that year's starting order details on the ISU website. You might also call the World Figure Skating Museum in Colorado Springs for assistance.

Meanwhile, Wiki provides a rundown on final results and scores for competitors (both programs) in all disciplines:

1991 World Figure Skating Championships - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[labgoat]

Wikipedia gives results for the entire field, annually. If you're looking for specific start orders, you might be able to research that year's starting order details on the ISU website. You might also call the World Figure Skating Museum in Colorado Springs for assistance.

Meanwhile, Wiki provides a rundown on final results and scores for competitors (both programs) in all disciplines:

1991 World Figure Skating Championships - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

No start orders on ISU website that far back and Wiki only shows final placements. I was hoping someone who watched ESP might recall something to help my deductive reasoning with the clues I have.

 

[yesterday]

Michael Slipchuk (CAN) is the one missing (7th overall)

 

[yesterday]

If you can't put the list together via the old videos, it might be worth a try to contact DEU https://www.eislauf-union.de/de/impressum?jsn_mobilize_preview=20 as Munich hosted this Worlds?

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Or, you might be able to find someone who has an old tape of the event. Sadly, I used to have figure skating tapes from the 1980s and 1990s, but I had to get rid of them. Too much clutter when moving, plus insufficient storage space. No editing equipment to convert VHS to DVD either.

ETA:

Oh, I see you said that you're already working from old tapes. Yeah, broadcast coverage back then was not always complete, the way it is with streaming today.

Another option you could try is calling the network to see if they might have starting order information in their archives. Maybe even some of the skaters who participated might have good recall, or they may have saved documentation from the event that could be helpful. You could also ask Ryan Stevens, from Skateguard history blog, to see if he can help. Also, maybe ask Jackie Wong if he has saved any information.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Historically, it's cool to see the line-up of names. What's sad is that networks never showed all the skaters back then. For instance, no old footage is readily available of Yuma Kagiyama's dad, Masakazu!

Also, I forgot that Michael Slipchuk used to be a competitor. I don't recall seeing him skate.

Uh, here's Slipchuk at 1992 Worlds. He was a pretty good spinner:

Michael Slipchuk SP 1992 World Figure Skating Championships

Michael Slipchuk.

youtu.be

ETA:
No, wait. YouTube has footage of Masakazu Kagiyama, from 1994 Lillehammer Olympics.

[HD] Masakazu Kagiyama - 1994 Lillehammer Olympic - Free Skating

Masakazu Kagiyama / éµå±±æ£å / ÐаÑÐ°ÐºÐ°Ð´Ð·Ñ ÐаджиÑма[HD] 1994 Lillehammer Olympics - PlaylistsMen Free Skating: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgo7E_HF6TjpK...

youtu.be

And at Albertville in 1992:

[HD] éµå±±æ£å Masakazu Kagiyama - 1992 Albertville Olympic - Free Skating

Masakazu Kagiyama / éµå±±æ£å[HD] 1992 Albertville Olympics - PlaylistsMen - Free Skating: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgo7E_HF6TjohHJKW3DB23AABe4Nsdel...

youtu.be

Father with son at 2022 Beijing Olympics:

Kagiyama Yuma's #Beijing2022 short program

ð² Subscribe to @olympics: http://oly.ch/Subscribe Check out this amazing performance from Kagiyama Yuma at the 2022 Olympics in Beijing. Enjoy watching! __...

youtu.be

 

[labgoat]

Okay, I am still trying - who are the skaters in this warmup group as shown by CBC:
Kurt Browning
Todd Eldredge
Elvis Stojko
Christopher Bowman
Blonde? guy with black costume and neon trim labels - Daniel Weiss GER?
Tall fellow wearing all black shaking hands with Bowman, next to skate - Jan Erik Digernes NOR or
Henrik Walentin DEN?

Likely one of these guys
Oliver Höner SUI
Cameron Medhurst AUS
Jan Erik Digernes NOR
Henrik Walentin DEN

I think these are correct:
Tomislav Cizmesija YUG - FNR dark haired skater in white, orange, zebra print
Gilberto Viadana ITA clip

I have updated the running order in the first post to reflect what I believe is close to correct so far.

Also how might the groups have worked for 33 skaters?

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

^^ Well, it's interesting to look back. These old videos can be frustrating because their quality is not the best. Plus, the broadcasts did not show all the skaters, even though all the skaters' performances were probably filmed.

I was curious why you're so interested in the skate order anyway? You could check with resources, like World Figure Skating Musuem. There has to be documentation somewhere. Another person you could check with for leads is the figure skating historian, James R. Hines.

In any case, it looks like you feel you're almost there based on looking at broadcast videos. As far as the tall skater shaking Bowman's hand, from the list of names you have, it might be Henrik Walentin, based on his hair and his height. I thought it could be Jan Erik Digernes, but he looks a bit different in terms of hair and height only a few years later. It's definitely not Oliver Höner, because he had dark hair, and he wasn't as tall. Probably not Cameron Medhurst either, because he had curly blond hair.

My guess that it's Walentin is based on doing an images search on Google with his name, against the other names (obviously I looked for their skating photos). I found videos on Youtube of performances in other years by Walentin, Digernes, Medhurst, and Höner. You can take a look at those videos, if you think it might help in your pursuit of reconstructing this skate order.

ETA:
I just checked for Daniel Weiss on YouTube. There's a 1989 Skate Canada video of him. I think it might have been Weiss, rather than Walentin, who shook Bowman's hand. Weiss was definitely an entertainer.

Daniel Weiss (FRG) - 1989 Skate Canada International, Men's Free Skate

Cornwall, Ontario, CANADA - 1989 Skate Canada International, Men's Free Skate - Daniel Weiss of West Germany won the Bronze Medal.

youtu.be

Compare with Walentin:

Henrik Walentin DEN - 1992 European Championships LP

SP : 10th, LP : 11th, 10th placeJan. 1992, Lausanne SUI

youtu.be

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Also how might the groups have worked for 33 skaters?

Again, a question to ask historians and/ or the World Figure Skating Museum. Or even check with the skaters, including Kurt Browning, Elvis Stojko, and Michael Slipchuk, who were there and possibly might remember.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I know you didn't ask about Ralph Burghart of Austria, but I came across this video of him at 1992 Euros. He has been Keegan Messing's coach for most of Keegan's career, if not all. Burghart was a very good all-around skater too. Boy was he low-balled in the scores for this performance!

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

 

[labgoat]

I was curious why you're so interested in the skate order anyway?

For my REWATCH threads (there are several) located in the Fan Fest General area where I have been reassembling past events found on video from a variety of sources. It began during the pandemic to fill the void of skating during lockdown and ended up a project to distract me from stress at the hospital. I have been listing the skaters as close to live and in order so others can relive the events. Some additional videos from 1991 Worlds were recently posted and I was integrating them into my lists. Since I do not have access to ESP, I thought other fans might help - and they did, look how much is now done.

REWATCH Major Championships 1947 – 1998

1985 European Figure Skating Championships - February 4-10, 1985 Gothenburg, Sweden – Scandinavium | Wikipedia Men Short Program Vladimir Kotin USSR Viktor Petrenko USSR Alessandro Riccitelli ITA Stephen Pickavance GBR Free Skate 1 Jozef Sabovčík TCH 2 Vladimir Kotin USSR 3 Grzegorz...

www.goldenskate.com

 

[labgoat]

I know you didn't ask about Ralph Burghart of Austria, but I came across this video of him at 1992 Euros. He has been Keegan Messing's coach for most of Keegan's career, if not all. Burghart was a very good all-around skater too. Boy was he low-balled in the scores for this performance!

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

I have listed him in Euros, but could not find video for 1991 Worlds.

 

[labgoat]

I have been listing the skaters as close to live and in order so others can relive the events

I have received many private emails from others thanking me for helping them relive an event - sometimes with someone they loved who passed. It’s nice to give back a happy memory.

 

[labgoat]

There's a 1989 Skate Canada video of him. I think it might have been Weiss, rather than Walentin, who shook Bowman's hand

I think Daniel Weiss is the guy in black with neon green trim shown in the warm up only. I think it has to be Walentin who Bowman shook hands with after his skate. He also can be seen in the warmup doing a camel spin.

 

[NanaPat]

For the my REWATCH threads (there are several) located in the Fan Fest General area where I have been reassembling past events found on video from a variety of sources. It began during the pandemic to fill the void of skating during lockdown and ended up a project to distract me from stress at the hospital. I have been listing the skaters as close to live and in order so others can relive the events. some additional videos from 1991 Worlds were recently posted and I was integrating them into my lists. Since I do not have access to ESP, I thought other fans might help - and they did, look how much is now done.

REWATCH Major Championships 1947 – 1998

1985 European Figure Skating Championships - February 4-10, 1985 Gothenburg, Sweden – Scandinavium | Wikipedia Men Short Program Vladimir Kotin USSR Viktor Petrenko USSR Alessandro Riccitelli ITA Stephen Pickavance GBR Free Skate 1 Jozef Sabovčík TCH 2 Vladimir Kotin USSR 3 Grzegorz...

www.goldenskate.com

I see a lot of FNR in the rewatch post. What does it stand for?

 

[labgoat]

I see a lot of FNR in the rewatch post. What does it stand for?

Final not reached - only 20 made the freeskate cut

 

[labgoat]

I know you didn't ask about Ralph Burghart of Austria, but I came across this video of him at 1992 Euros. He has been Keegan Messing's coach for most of Keegan's career, if not all. Burghart was a very good all-around skater too. Boy was he low-balled in the scores for this performance!

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

Hard to recognize him with his short hair. Yes he was undermarked and of course later went on to coach Keegan Messing.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Hard to recognize him with his short hair. Yes he was undermarked and of course later went on to coach Keegan Messing.

Yes, Burghart looked quite different in his youth. I can detect obvious similarities in his facial features, weathered now by age. He has a long, narrow face. Maybe that's why he has worn his hair long and shaggy for years. Burghart married Rory Flack in 1992, and they had two sons. They later divorced, and both eventually married other partners. Flack and Burghart coached Keegan in Alaska while they were together. Flack did some of Keegan's choreo.

Flack's and Burghart's younger son, Remington, competed in figure skating. There are YouTube videos of his performances at Cup of Tyrol in 2017, where he repped Austria. I think he initially skated on the lower levels in the U.S. Their older son, Rendell, competed as a tennis player in college (Division 1).

 

[labgoat]

Yes, Burghart looked quite different in his youth. I can detect obvious similarities in his facial features, weathered now by age. He has a long, narrow face. Maybe that's why he has worn his hair long and shaggy for years. Burghart married Rory Flack in 1992, and they had two sons. They later divorced, and both eventually married other partners. Flack and Burghart coached Keegan in Alaska while they were together. Flack did some of Keegan's choreo.

Flack's and Burghart's younger son, Remington, competed in figure skating. There are YouTube videos of his performances at Cup of Tyrol in 2017, where he repped Austria. I think he initially skated on the lower levels in the U.S. Their older son, Rendell, competed as a tennis player in college (Division 1).

You are an amazing font of information.