How do Elite Skaters pay their bills?

[rfid9968]

When you say the funding is good, are you referring to synchro or "A" envelope skaters?

I'm interested in knowing more about your suggested approach. How do you see that working? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think only the "super elite" competitions offer financial awards for any skater athletes right now.

Well, here is my observation and thought: To simply rely on enthusiasm of the fans or the scarification of the family will not able to change the loss popularity of the skating here.

If we look through the kids' eyes, they have a lot choices: school basketball team, school volleyball team, school soccer team, school hockey team, and more. Even the other individually-played sports, such as swimming, diving, fencing, gymnastic, track and field, there are also middle or high school teams and the competitions system among school level is available for the individual-played players. Meanwhile, all these K-12 sports can find the same matching team schema in the college level, and the colleges have motivation to provide tuition-waived type of scholarship for the players. Considering the soared college tuition and the numbers of players they recruit, the attraction of potential financial outcome for the family/kids is irresistible。

Now lets look at Figure Skating. There is no school team in neither middle school nor high school, as well as no school level competition. The skaters are on their own. No matter if they win or lose in the competition, nobody else cares except of the players themselves. Most of colleges don't care as well, even there is intercollegiate figure skating competition. The result is: After hundreds of thousands dollars spent for skating, the family/player will need to prepare almost same amount of money for college by themselves? Maybe the few of the top 3 can have some sponsorship to carry on, but most of others will make the obvious move to quit for sure. Actually, many parents who were skaters before discourage their kids to go through the same path, because of the unpleasant memory of huge spending without the same meaningful return in their past. (side note: There are coaching opportunity out there, but I won't comment on the fight among coaches over the skaters or other rink-politics scenarios. From what I heard so far, it is not easy at all, it is tough...)

In long run, I think that a competition system gets middle-high school/college involved might help a lot, based on the reason mentioned above. The goal is to have the college Admission Office to consider the skater as same as the players in other sports. If that comes true, it would come with both financial support and education support, which can be a big boost among general interest and popularity.

In short run, some financial rewards in different level competitions (novice, intermed, or might be even pre-juv) can be helpful. The amount of the award might not be significant, but this can be an alternative to get public attention before the long term plan works out.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[mskater93]

High school competition is already up and running in full force in Michigan, Ohio, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Colorado. In Michigan, they have HS state championships and everything and most schools particpating give varsity letters

 

[dorispulaski]

That's very cool

Do high schools have their own rinks, so that the ice is free in MI? (In VT, big towns often own their own rinks, so the town's high school hockey teams practice essentially for free.)

 

[Robeye]

How 'bout dads with the skill to use a home sewing machine? (BTW, off the top of my head, I'm not so sure that such machines are quite as rare as you suggest, but have only anecdotal evidence.)

I'm sure there are a few dads with such skills, but generally, I try not to give in to pressure to perform elaborate genuflections to political correctness in the course of general speech, unless said genuflections correspond to a very substantial reality. The opposite side of your critique, IMO, is the deliberate blurring of the boundaries between "is" and "ought" in the service of polemic objectives. If you can show that dads make up more than a tiny sliver of users, then I would willingly concede the point, but somehow I doubt it.

I was trying to track down historical market penetration numbers for home sewing machines (without paying for market research ), but without success. I can therefore only give, at the moment, this unsubstantiated elaboration: My surmise is that if you looked back to a century ago, almost every home had a sewing machine (if they could afford one). After a steady decline over many decades, probably by the 1980s or 1990s, I would guess that only a very small fraction of homes owned one. I remember my mom had one gathering dust for years, and then one day it was gone. Googling the subject, it seems there has been a mini-revival in recent years, due to the popularity of shows such as Project Runway, but it's still early to tell whether this is a lasting trend or a fad.

As for black unitards:

I'm wondering where Virtue/Moir's very plain black wardrobe for their Pink Floyd FD at 2009 Worlds (from which they took home bronze medals) fits into this discussion. Maybe it is the exception that proves the rule (that more elaborate peacock feathers are what judges expect/"demand"). V/M's costumes could have been mistaken for store-bought practice outfits. Virtue's looked like barely more than a black halter-style unitard with black legwarmers + a short, very simple black skirt (I assume the skirt was required by the rules). Moir was the definition of austerity in a black mock turtleneck (IIRC) and black pants. The only possible thing on either skater that could be considered any kind of embellishment or flourish was one circular clasp-type part of her halter.
My understanding is that the point of V/M's ultra-basic costumes was to eliminate any distraction from their beautiful lines. V/M were severely under-trained that year because of her recovery from surgery, so emphasizing their strengths was more critical than ever. (For the same FD, they previously had worn colorful tie-dyed costumes with beading and other details.)​

Interesting example. My initial thoughts, though:

1) The characteristics of the music (Pink Floyd) may have lent themselves to simple, severe, black costuming.

2) The fact that V/M did not use this concept for both programs, or for all programs thereafter, is a prima facie argument that they did not believe that such costuming could be maintained as a general principle, without potentially negative repercussions.

 

[Olympia]

When I was growing up, most women did not work outside the home, and many of them learned cooking and sewing as part of their basic skills sets.They often taught their daughters how to sew and often sewed clothes for the family to save money. Later on, more women began getting outside jobs and didn't have time or patience for household arts. Also, the feminist movement caused many young women and girls to look down on traditional feminine pursuits such as cooking, cleaning, and sewing. The result was that a lot of women no longer learned how to do even the most basic mending. Additionally, these days it's often cheaper to buy clothes at places like WalMart than to sew them. (Thanks to cheap overseas labor, alas.) Fortunately, some women did not pay attention to changing times and retained their sewing skills, and as you say, more people are getting interested in sewing these days for various cultural reasons. I'm a feminist, but my take on things is that traditional women's arts should be valued, not denigrated. So I'm especially delighted to see that sewing of all kinds (not just Project Runway-level couture) and quilting are being revived and even expanded on.

 

[karne]

I sew my own skating dresses. It's actually not as hard as many think.

Of course I don't go crazy OTT, either. The most decoration I had was a black dress with a double-row of red stones around the neck, wrists, waist and skirt hem. And that took a LONG time to do.

 

[dorispulaski]

I'm sure there are a few dads with such skills, but generally, I try not to give in to pressure to perform elaborate genuflections to political correctness in the course of general speech, unless said genuflections correspond to a very substantial reality. The opposite side of your critique, IMO, is the deliberate blurring of the boundaries between "is" and "ought" in the service of polemic objectives. If you can show that dads make up more than a tiny sliver of users, then I would willingly concede the point, but somehow I doubt it.

I was trying to track down historical market penetration numbers for home sewing machines (without paying for market research ), but without success. I can therefore only give, at the moment, this unsubstantiated elaboration: My surmise is that if you looked back to a century ago, almost every home had a sewing machine (if they could afford one). After a steady decline over many decades, probably by the 1980s or 1990s, I would guess that only a very small fraction of homes owned one. I remember my mom had one gathering dust for years, and then one day it was gone. Googling the subject, it seems there has been a mini-revival in recent years, due to the popularity of shows such as Project Runway, but it's still early to tell whether this is a lasting trend or a fad.


Interesting example. My initial thoughts, though:

1) The characteristics of the music (Pink Floyd) may have lent themselves to simple, severe, black costuming.

2) The fact that V/M did not use this concept for both programs, or for all programs thereafter, is a prima facie argument that they did not believe that such costuming could be maintained as a general principle, without potentially negative repercussions.

Tessa had a lovely costume for Pink Floyd that she showed at 4CC's, but they did not use it for Worlds. I heard at the time that Skate Canada was pressuring all of its skaters to go with very simple costumes, and that's why she changed to the black costume, but I don't know whether that's true or not.

 

[mskater93]

That's very cool

Do high schools have their own rinks, so that the ice is free in MI? (In VT, big towns often own their own rinks, so the town's high school hockey teams practice essentially for free.)

Most HS teams practice at their local rinks in MI (or the skaters on their own with a small amount of time dedicated to team building). I am only aware of the whole HS competition thing due to some adult skating friends being the team "coach" or "moderator" and other adult skating friends judging these events.

 

[Robeye]

Tessa had a lovely costume for Pink Floyd that she showed at 4CC's, but they did not use it for Worlds. I heard at the time that Skate Canada was pressuring all of its skaters to go with very simple costumes, and that's why she changed to the black costume, but I don't know whether that's true or not.

What would be the reason for Skate Canada to do that? Curious.

 

[Icey]

I'm almost certain that Peggy Fleming was one of these skaters.

Didn't her mother make the dress she wore when skating to an OGM?

Peggy's family even lived in a tent for awhile.

 

[loopy]

Most families I know encourage their daughters to a more lucrative sport when they realize the cost of skating competitively. Soccer, dance, cheer, volleyball... Once we realized it's not about talent, but it's about money AND talent, we couldn't force her to quit and instead she focuses on testing. At least as a double gold medalist she has options to coach if she chooses down the road.

 

[clairecloutier]

I personally know the parents who paying $100/hour for their kids with at least two sessions each day. Adding up, that is around $4000 each month, and this is just for the private classes, not counting the competition, ice time, off-ice, ballet class, and other stuffs yet. Many of these family are doing it when their kids started from pre-preliminary for last 3 or 4 years already. Simple math, at the end of Junior level, with this level of expense continuing, I think many of them may pay about half of million.

Those numbers are hard to believe ... $4000 a month? Who can afford that? Even families making very good salaries aren't likely to have that kind of money available. I wonder if most young skaters who are actively competing pay that much, or only those on the top tier?

 

[Olympia]

Most families I know encourage their daughters to a more lucrative sport when they realize the cost of skating competitively. Soccer, dance, cheer, volleyball... Once we realized it's not about talent, but it's about money AND talent, we couldn't force her to quit and instead she focuses on testing. At least as a double gold medalist she has options to coach if she chooses down the road.

You bring up an interesting point. In the old days, there weren't many high-level sports opportunities for talented girl athletes. Though track and swimming existed, there might not be competitive programs in every community. And forget soccer. Was there even a women's world cup in those days? Skating was one of the few acceptable sports, and since skaters didn't have to train as hard or spend big bucks on costumes, skating might have been a bit more financially accessible for a family. But if it wasn't, the girl was pretty much giving up sports if she gave up skating. Now, if skating is too expensive for a family, there are other possibilities, though of course these other sports take a different skill set and so might not be for every skater wannabe.

I remember one girl from my high school who was an incredible athlete. She had speed, power, confidence, and strategic skills. We all knew that there was nothing she could do with that power and talent once she graduated from high school, except to become a gym teacher. Now? Teams would fight over her if she were seventeen today. She would have her entire college education paid for. I'm only sorry that figure skating isn't valued in colleges the way swimming, track, and basketball are.

 

[gkelly]

Those numbers are hard to believe ... $4000 a month? Who can afford that? Even families making very good salaries aren't likely to have that kind of money available. I wonder if most young skaters who are actively competing pay that much, or only those on the top tier?

Let's say you skate 80 hours per month at $10 per hour -- that's $800 for ice time.
Say 20 half-hour lessons (10 hours) per month at $100/hour -- that's $1000.

Rates for ice time and coaching vary depending on location, as well as the credentials of the coach.

That might be typical for a serious intermediate-level competitor.
Maybe some off-ice training as well.

So easily $2000 per month if you're serious.

Then there are other costs that aren't monthly: new skates, new costumes, music cutting, choreography (unless done by the coach in regular lesson time), test fees, membership fees, and entry fees and travel to competitions. Some of those are negligible in the overall scheme of skating expenses, others can be significant. Especially if you travel to distant competitions fairly often.

If you have to travel or relocate to an appropriate rink with an appropriate coach, or just live in a location with a high cost of living and take from an expensive coach, if you train many hours and take many lessons, if you compete often at out-of-town venues, if you hire name choreographers and wear elaborate custom-made costumes, expenses will add up. $4000/month is certainly possible, but I'd say that's on the high end of expenses for the average mid-level regional competitor.

If you live in a lower cost-of-living area, skate fewer hours per week with some of them on public sessions, take fewer lessons or have a less expensive coach or a shared lessons arrangement, don't compete as often, do your own choreography with your coach, wear homemade or off-the-rack costumes, etc., you could be skating at middle levels with double jumps (which are the norm for most competitive skaters anyway, quality of jumps/skating/performance aside), for less than $1000 per month, but you won't often place in the top of the field.

Double axels and triple jumps take more training time with better coaching, but even if you have those ingredients not every body is equipped to achieve them. Which is another reason why skaters quit even if money is not an issue.

 

[sarahspins]

At least as a double gold medalist she has options to coach if she chooses down the road.

I wouldn't bank on that being a steady full time income though... for a vast majority of coaches, it is a part time income at best. Most of the coaches at my rink (even the higher level coaches) work full time jobs in addition to coaching.

 

[Celine]

Peggy's family even lived in a tent for awhile.

LOL seriously? I'm not trying to be rude, but ... for REAL??? This is fact check worthy - worth posting?

A tent. Ummm... so no electricity, plumbing, etc. In Colorado Springs.

If true, then my apology for appearing astounded but that is so WOW that I'm :think:

 

[gkelly]

A tent. Ummm... so no electricity, plumbing, etc. In Colorado Springs.

It was in Northern California, IIRC.

 

[rfid9968]

Those numbers are hard to believe ... $4000 a month? Who can afford that? Even families making very good salaries aren't likely to have that kind of money available. I wonder if most young skaters who are actively competing pay that much, or only those on the top tier?

gkelly has helped to clarify this for me, but I like to state some facts if this is new for people out there.

First, I was not referring to the skaters who are doing single jump or taking public skating hour. I was talking about the serious skaters whose level are pre-juv or higher: at least double-double or trying 2A. I hope it is obvious for everyone that the beginner's expense is not what I tried to address.

Also, The coach fee I quoted here is actually lower than the national average. You won't be able to find a high-level coach at this price range in either CA or NY. As far as I know, Colorado Spring average price is also about $120/hour. If the top skaters live in these areas, their expenses will be higher than what I quote here for sure.

The rinks I knowing have a couple Grand Prix pre-juv champion, last couple years national juv top 3, national novice top 3, and national junior top 3, etc. These kids take the skating very seriously, two lessons each day is common for many of them: jump lesson, ice-dance lesson, choreograph lesson, MIF lesson. It is easy to calculate how much the coach fee adding up here.

Of course the skater can spend much less as a different approach, but as other people pointed out: the level of their skating skill is very possible not at the same level, and I see most of them stucked at competition level of pre-pre or pre-juv eventually.

How their family afford it? I think that is the same question people asked at the beginning of the thread. If you ask me, I would say: the current figure skating system makes the family counting on regular salary/pay-check income as unfavorable candidates, unless the family wants to bet the whole house AND their kids are extremely talent AND the kid doesn't let them down in the play.

 

[clairecloutier]

How their family afford it? I think that is the same question people asked at the beginning of the thread. If you ask me, I would say: the current figure skating system makes the family counting on regular salary/pay-check income as unfavorable candidates, unless the family wants to bet the whole house AND their kids are extremely talent AND the kid doesn't let them down in the play.

So, are most of the families that have kids training seriously either a) independently wealthy or b) perhaps have 2 very high-salary careers??

Altogether this seems like a serious issue right now for North American skating. Not too long ago, the U.S. had some very high-level skaters who came from modest backgrounds (for example, Nancy Kerrigan). But if we're now at the point that skating is only for the rich, that's inevitably going to affect the number of high-level competitors we can put out there. I'd be interested to know what the USFSA's stance is on this. Do they have any programs in place to help average- to lower-income skaters?

As a middle-class parent, it's hard for me to imagine putting $4000/mo or even $2000/mo into training at the pre-juvenile level. Because we all know the chances of pre-juvenile-level success translating to any type of senior-level success are low. And yes, there are many positive aspects to skating aside from just winning competitions, but still. You'd have to think seriously about whether that money could be much better invested elsewhere, such as in a college fund. There are also issues of fairness--if you have multiple kids, but only one is involved in skating, how would you justify spending $2000/mo on the figure skating, when it's benefiting only one of the children? Tough questions indeed.

 

[gkelly]

Altogether this seems like a serious issue right now for North American skating. Not too long ago, the U.S. had some very high-level skaters who came from modest backgrounds (for example, Nancy Kerrigan). But if we're now at the point that skating is only for the rich, that's inevitably going to affect the number of high-level competitors we can put out there.

This isn't just an issue right now. It always has been. Probably even moreso when school figures were part of competition, because they required more hours of practice on clean (more expensive) ice and separate lessons.

Figure skating has always been an expensive, elitist sport -- all the more so when figures and strict amateurism (no coaching or getting paid to skate in shows to defray expenses) were part of the equation.

Often training had to happen at unpopular hours to get enough ice time and/or cheaper ice time. Skaters might have been homeschooled before homeschooling was popular in order to take advantage of midday ice at lower rates. I know one former pair skater who used to train between 1 and 4 AM.

Most skaters who made it to the elite levels came from families that had money.

Those who had less money but demonstrated a high level of talent and success early on could attract sponsorships and donations to fundraising drives to support their skating, possibly extra/discounted/free ice time and lessons from rinks and coaches who wanted to be associated with a well-known name (and might negotiate a percentage of future earnings after the skater turned pro).

The numbers of competitors then was lower than it is now, so it was easier for true talent to stand out.

Otherwise, then as now, skaters of average talent and average financial means either quit early or settled for perennially lower-ranked results, or didn't compete.

Again, I'll quote a coach and rink owner that I knew in the 1970s. A parent asked him what it took to succeed in this sport -- talent? hard work? His verbatim response was "Money and access to an ice rink."