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It's not quite what MM is asking in the other thread, but Kimmie did it in her Worlds champion skate, and she was a US champ (the next year). 
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In praise of Rachael and other "athletes."
- Thread starter Poodlepal
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* Gimmie Kimmie! 
Michelle did it only three times, 2000 Worlds and 2001 Worlds (both free skate and qualifying round).
By the way, at 1995 Worlds jumping bean Michelle completed 7 triples in nine jumping passes.
I think we should go back to those thrilling days of yesteryear and forget about all this "balanced program" stuff.
Michelle did it only three times, 2000 Worlds and 2001 Worlds (both free skate and qualifying round).
By the way, at 1995 Worlds jumping bean Michelle completed 7 triples in nine jumping passes.
I think we should go back to those thrilling days of yesteryear and forget about all this "balanced program" stuff.
Wait! I am trying to agree with you. In all of Michelle's 9 U.S. championship LPs she never landed seven triples, except that one time, 1998, and that was with eight jumping passes.
Maybe Rachael is the first!
I know you agreed with me.
I just thought it's an amazing feat what Rachael did, and there are people who kept on saying she's not pushing any technical boundaries, not athletic, etc...
A 7 triples program is a lot harder than a 6 triples program because the last triple means the skater must have a full set of triples (minus the 3A) + executed the other 6 cleanly + the fatigue factor after the 6 triples. The 7th triple is not an indepedent event. I think there should be an added bonus for a 6th triple, and even a bigger bonus for a 7th triple.
Doesn't Yuna have an edge over everyone because of her well-executed 3-3's? I mean she does the best and most consistent 3-3's right? Not saying who's better but I feel Yuna is the one who has the technical edge over everyone. I am not an expert but I feel 3A and 3-3 are equally difficult? I think one reason Mao doesn't do them anymore is because she may not have the stamina to do both of them in a program. On an another note, I also enjoyed Flatt's SP far more than her LP.
A 3Lz-3T (which is what Yuna does) has a base point value of 10 while a triple axel as a base value of 8.2.
Yuna, yes does have the edge, because her 3-3 is the most difficult and she lands it pretty consistently.
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What would a 3Lz-3L have in base value then?
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Ok, I thought Poodlepal's "dinosaur music" referred to Tonya's Jurassic Park program
-- or did the phrase simply mean hackneyed old standards? I can actually see the sentence making sense either way. Poodle?
Rachel
She is a highly motivated skater who has very good jump technique. That's it. She is not the total package. Could she be? I don't know. I do know that I consider her skating a refrigerator break and completely forgettable. Mirai Nagasu, Yu Na and Mao can skate circles around her. So can Ashley when she is on. I don't like saying this but it makes me angry to see a skater just throw away an integral part of skating in an effort to rack up the points. Makes me think of Trixi Schuba and the figures.
She is a highly motivated skater who has very good jump technique. That's it. She is not the total package. Could she be? I don't know. I do know that I consider her skating a refrigerator break and completely forgettable. Mirai Nagasu, Yu Na and Mao can skate circles around her. So can Ashley when she is on. I don't like saying this but it makes me angry to see a skater just throw away an integral part of skating in an effort to rack up the points. Makes me think of Trixi Schuba and the figures.
I agree that Rachael is not the total package. I love the fact that she can execute all triples (except 3a) including 3F-3T fully rotated and very consistently. But She definitely needs to work on Spial and spins. Speed could be an issue,but her not -so -fast but steady speed may be the key of her jump consistency.
Yu-na is not total package either. She does have beautiful 3-3 but she will not be able to execute all triples and she has to rely on 3 double axels program to keep points up. She defeinitely needs to work on spins and spirals as well. She lacks flexibility.If she has trouble with 3-3, she is defeinitely beatable by any of top skaters. And Rachaell did it.
Mirai could be a total package if she can fix UR jumps. Her spirals and spins are beautirul and her basic skating skill is really wonderful. Mao also has beautiful skating skills, spirals and spins. Just like Mirai, she has such a flexible body,but she needs to work on perfecting jumps.
As far as I am concerned, noone seems to be a total package.
I'm not a skater, coach, or judge...but I imagine that skaters and their team do calculate and strategize to get points (it is, after all, a competition and the point is to win or beat your own personal best). It's hard to blame them for doing that. At the same time, I find it hard to believe that 'team x' (say Flatt's team) sits backs, laughs, and says: hey, let's through the "artistry" out the window and focus on points. Again, I think each skater IS different but likely wishes to excel at particular things while being overall well rounded (or total package). I don't know, but I think they work from a skaters strengths, try to enhance and highlight those strengths, and develop weakenesses as much as possible.
So, that said, I personally think Flatt/her team are doing a great job of pushing her every season to get a little better at something. Hard to blame her for coming to seniors already good. And she has improved, imo, speed, presentation, and transitions...and her jumps are even better. Perfect. maybe not. Can she beat Yuna in 2010, maybe not. But is she a great skater with great consistency, unbelievably steady nerves, really good jumps, a lovely smile and many other amazing qualities...imo, yes. If other disagree - which is only natural. But, I do not believe it is not fair to say that Flatt or Schuba or anyone else just inentionally says, I am throwing x y or z away. I think they just might not be able to do it. skaing is hard.
So, that said, I personally think Flatt/her team are doing a great job of pushing her every season to get a little better at something. Hard to blame her for coming to seniors already good. And she has improved, imo, speed, presentation, and transitions...and her jumps are even better. Perfect. maybe not. Can she beat Yuna in 2010, maybe not. But is she a great skater with great consistency, unbelievably steady nerves, really good jumps, a lovely smile and many other amazing qualities...imo, yes. If other disagree - which is only natural. But, I do not believe it is not fair to say that Flatt or Schuba or anyone else just inentionally says, I am throwing x y or z away. I think they just might not be able to do it. skaing is hard.
Ok, I thought Poodlepal's "dinosaur music" referred to Tonya's Jurassic Park program
Yes, I meant Tonya's music!
And I forgot about Surya Bonaly! She might be the queen of the non-music-interpreters!I feel that much of the criticism of Rachael is about things that are out of her control. She is large for a figure skater, which does limit her flexibility somewhat, but she is not overweight (she wouldn't be able to jump as well if she were). It is hardly her fault that she doesn't have the body type of a tiny Asian (various people) tiny Sasha. People are also not in control of their X factor. This is why the most talented people don't always do well on American Idol, for example, but someone charming like Taylor Hicks will.
Is there something offensive that Rachael doing or not doing that she could do? If she's out and out refusing to stand up straight, or refusing to do some spin because she has a bad attitude, I could see the animosity towards her. But by all accounts, she's a workaholic with a very good attitude.
I think she should stay away from soft classical music and do more programs like her short. Her long program seems more suited for a ballerina type, perhaps that's why she seems awkward.
As for Rachael beating Yu Na in the long program--well, she did! Hopefully, Yu Na and her fans can accept it by now!
And had Rachael not fallen in the short, maybe she would have won, or it would have been a closer loss. Rachael is America's best bet for a medal. If she's her consistent self, and one or more others "beat themselves," I don't see why she isn't a contender for at least the bronze. No, nobody will likely beat a clean-skating Yu Na, but I don't think her country's pressure will be less at the Olympics than it was at some small Grand Prix event. Let's hope she doesn't "beat herself" again.- Joined
- Nov 26, 2009
As for Rachael beating Yu Na in the long program--well, she did! Hopefully, Yu Na and her fans can accept it by now!
Kim Yuna had the worst skate of her career and still beat Rachael in SA.
I know you agreed with me.
I just thought it's an amazing feat what Rachael did, and there are people who kept on saying she's not pushing any technical boundaries, not athletic, etc...
A 7 triples program is a lot harder than a 6 triples program because the last triple means the skater must have a full set of triples (minus the 3A) + executed the other 6 cleanly + the fatigue factor after the 6 triples. The 7th triple is not an indepedent event. I think there should be an added bonus for a 6th triple, and even a bigger bonus for a 7th triple.
She is an amazing athlete . Landing all those jumps is rediculous! Unfortunately, I never felt any excitement while she was doing them. It wasnt like watching Ashley do all those sequences at the end. or Tara doing a triple toe half loop triple sow at the end. It seems like someone with her body type should look more aggresive and powerful. I wonder if she was faster if she would still have the same stamina to complete the jumps, or if she could even do the jumps with consistency .
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Kim Yuna had the worst skate of her career and still beat Rachael in SA.
'cause she did really well in her SP, but yeah, you're right.
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It doesn't matter that Yu-Na lacks a 3Loop...the base value for the jumps in her program is still the highest out of any lady competitor. Her GOE's on the jumps are the highest too. Yu-Na is definitely the complete package.
Kim Yuna had the worst skate of her career and still beat Rachael in SA.
Kim Yuna also had the best SP of her career at SA.
Rachael had mistakes in the short, mistakes in the long.
If Kim skated like she did at the GPF, Rachael would beat her.
But she does more or less the same elements. But under the CoP system, it is better to stick with what works for you than variety I guess. So I think under this system, it's pretty hard to be a real complete packaged skater, which I think means executing all different kinds of jumps plus excellent artistry. Michelle Kwan is the only skater I still feel has the complete package.
OK. Believe what you want to believe.
If Rachael would beat Kim, she could beat even the other Olympic favorites (e.g., Joannie, Miki). Well...let's see if Rachael could be ahead of them. It would be a big accomplishment.
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- Nov 26, 2009
:indiff::indiff:
Flatt's SA
SP 58.80
LP 116.11
Total 174.91
Kim's SA
SP 76.28
LP 111.70
Total 187.98
Kim's GPF SP 65.64
SA LP 111.70
Total 177.34
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- Joined
- Nov 11, 2009
Yuna beat Rachel by more than 13 points at SA. Yuna set another world record in her SP at SA but her SP had been of that level consistently. It was less than 0.2 points higher than her own previous SP world record. Rachel could have beat Yuna at GPF? :scratch: Wow... Rachel didn't even qualify for GPF. Yuna's extremely unusual Saturday night at SA must give some Rachel fans illusion.
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