ISU figure skating streams might be switched to pay-per-view platform

[TallyT]

What has just occurred to me... we get credits for 'sharing videos' and 'inviting friends', right? So when you do either of these, we would presumably have to say "look at this great ska.... oh sorry, friend, you have to pay - or watch a heap of unwanted ads - to look."

So when friend says no thanks, as 99.999995% of them will, do we still get credits for sending the invite anyway? And also, does the ISU want the invitee's details to confirm we are not just pretending to send them, and to follow up and nag the invitee?!?!? No. Way. am I giving the website any even the barest info on people I want to stay friends with.

I could be overthinking of course...

 

[yesterday]

What has just occurred to me... we get credits for 'sharing videos' and 'inviting friends', right? So when you do either of these, we would presumably have to say "look at this great ska.... oh sorry, friend, you have to pay - or watch a heap of unwanted ads - to look."

So when friend says no thanks, as 99.999995% of them will, do we still get credits for sending the invite anyway? And also, does the ISU want the invitee's details to confirm we are not just pretending to send them, and to follow up and nag the invitee?!?!? No. Way. am I giving the website any even the barest info on people I want to stay friends with.

I could be overthinking of course...

Ususally those things only come in place once a registration is completed.
Otherwise you could just send links to "anybody" or to mail addresses you set up yourself.

 

[TallyT]

Ususally those things only come in place once a registration is completed.
Otherwise you could just send links to "anybody" or to mail addresses you set up yourself.

Okay, I like keeping my friends even more than I like watching skating, so that's out.

 

[katymay]

This is why I download download download (well, that and my packrat genes inherited from a long line of hoarders). It isn't only skating, fanvids all over, youtube reactions and foreign TV shows/series have a nasty habit of disappearing/muting without notice. I have no idea if people will be able to download from the ISU's 'brilliant' new platform, presumably if there are popular enough skaters at the events people will work out and share how to do it.

What saddens me is the not-big name skaters, but the greater number who are successful but not so much that ordinary people/new fans will hunt them out, and the newcomers. When are they going to get a chance to attract attention? And I suspect that most sports that do succeed on pay per view (besides the massive worldwide ones like golf and tennis) are mostly team sports?

I use a free program called OBS to screen capture almost everything, then delete it later if it wasn't great. If you have a huge hard drive, a mac makes it very easy to record the screen-I screen captured everything from the CBC coverage of Olympic Figure skating, but the files were HUGE. (you can reduce the files, but it is a pain)4K is a great program to download from You Tube, but it doesn't always work, hit or miss. If you are a fan of figure skating though you know to grab it right away, before it disappears.
Removing videos because of music violations doesn't hurt the big artists, obviously, but it probably DOES hurt artists like Eternal Eclipse, Havasi, and more unknown artists. I personally have purchased a great deal of obscure music I've been introduced to by figure skating programs-stuff I would not have been aware of otherwise.

 

[TT_Fin]

A little bit off topic but close. Viasat got rights for EC and WC 2019 and also GP and it had to last to this season. Corona had some affection, but last year national TV which shows them free got the rights back for EC and WC before the contract to was closed. I am quite sure the reason was that number of viewers must have been a disappointment for Nordic Entertainment Group, the owner of Viasat. Many people who watch FS watch just what national TV shows and are not ready to pay for it. Viasat is also quite expensive, I decided too not to pay for it.

If ISU counts there are 3500 viewers when JGP is on, they should not count 3500 viewers will buy. More than 90 % of those 3500 will not, including me. And if there are no archives, it is bad, because people live in different parts of the earth and people got to work, study and need also to sleep. Very few will pay without archives.

 

[CoyoteChris]

WMG are being crybabies.

Actually, they are being lawyers. Long before your time, there was a tv series called Paper Chase about college kids in law school. The prof said, "You come to me with minds full of mush and leave thinking like lawyers" . Most lawyers in the US have one job. Taking money from a person or entity and representing them in a manner which is most beneficial to the client. Law and Order and social justice and truth and fairness and honesty are victums of the US legal system. Lawyers use case law and written law as weapons to achieve paid for goals.

 

[skatedreamer]

I'd really hate for it to happen a few years from now, that a new fan asks on GS - 'I've heard people talk about Jason's famous Riverdance / Yulia's famous Schndler's List / Yuzuru's famous Seimei / Tessa&Scott's Mahler - where can I watch it?' And the answer would be - 'You can't, you first need to pay ISU, and then you'll be able to see these iconic programs'. Abhorrent thought.

The ISU's latest ploy has seemed fishy to me from the start, but your mention of the "Riverdance" and Mahler programs really struck a chord with me. I can still feel the smile that spread across my face as I watched Jason perform "Riverdance" at the 2014 US Nats. As for Mahler, OMG, that was beyond sublime. Of all the gorgeous ID programs over the years, that's the only one I'd put in the same category with Torvill & Dean's "Bolero."

My point is that this stuff needs to be treasured and preserved for everyone. Funny about that -- I don't think twice about paying admission to art museums (not the greatest analogy; best I can think of) but the idea of paying the ISU to watch older programs really infuriates me.

 

[TallyT]

I use a free program called OBS to screen capture almost everything, then delete it later if it wasn't great. If you have a huge hard drive, a mac makes it very easy to record the screen-I screen captured everything from the CBC coverage of Olympic Figure skating, but the files were HUGE. (you can reduce the files, but it is a pain)4K is a great program to download from You Tube, but it doesn't always work, hit or miss. If you are a fan of figure skating though you know to grab it right away, before it disappears.
Removing videos because of music violations doesn't hurt the big artists, obviously, but it probably DOES hurt artists like Eternal Eclipse, Havasi, and more unknown artists. I personally have purchased a great deal of obscure music I've been introduced to by figure skating programs-stuff I would not have been aware of otherwise.

I have used a program called Wondershare Allmytube for some years. It wasn't free but was pretty cheap, it downloads videos from a range of places including bilibili , and it does playlists in one hit (its downloading of subtitles has become a bit hit and miss with youtube's system changes, but there are online programs to download them so it's all good).

Funny about that -- I don't think twice about paying admission to art museums (not the greatest analogy; best I can think of) but the idea of paying the ISU to watch older programs really infuriates me.

I think the difference is that you are paying to see the original works in a museum - just like you don't mind paying to see actual shows where the skaters perform the same old programs. If the museum put a screen in their foyer and made you pay to watch videos of their artificacts... that would be a NO. It's also not the greatest analogy (and I can think of several Japan-sized holes already) but it's as close as I can get.

 

[skatedreamer]

I think the difference is that you are paying to see the original works in a museum - just like you don't mind paying to see actual shows where the skaters perform the same old programs. If the museum put a screen in their foyer and made you pay to watch videos of their artificacts... that would be a NO. It's also not the greatest analogy (and I can think of several Japan-sized holes already) but it's as close as I can get.

Thanks, that's closer than my comparison! Come to think of it, many museum websites show photos of at least part of their collections -- and there's no charge for viewing on the websites.

Bottom line: I don't think any of us are happy about paying the ISU for the right to watch any videos.
*eyeballs credit cards protectively*

 

[Flying Feijoa]

If the Grand Prix and major championships go behind the paywall, I'll be satisfied with following the smaller international comps and domestic broadcasts. I really hope the Challenger series will remain as accessible as they have been (mostly free-to-air, maybe with the help of a VPN). They can have very interesting fields (top-tier skaters as well as lower-profile newbies/fan favourites/locals), and with many being earlier in the season you often get to see programme debuts. Camerawork and video quality is mostly decent.

As for domestic competition coverage, Russia is probably the most extensive but I also like Skate Canada's Dailymotion broadcasts (no geoblocking AFAIK, I don't seem to get any ads either?) I wish the Japanese skating fed could make their competitions more accessible because I'd happily watch those.

That said I'm an established fan, not sure if these competitions would appeal to casual/new audiences.

 

[skatingfan4ever]

That said I'm an established fan, not sure if these competitions would appeal to casual/new audiences.

They don't. In fact, most casual fans do not know about the Senior Grand Prix events or the whole junior circuit as it stands now, let alone Challengers or other countries' domestic broadcasts. The JGP/Junior Worlds is currently as accessible as it gets, but you still have to know when the events are happening or have happened to go search for videos. Also, we diehards appreciate Ted Barton for staying silent, but casual fans may get bored and/or not know what they're looking at without more detailed commentary. My friend in real life did not even know the figure skating season had started until I mentioned I was watching it. Likewise, she didn't know US Nationals were happening until I told her about it later. Unless you go looking for figure skating dates or info, you likely won't find it. You really have to already know what you're looking for. (Side note: I'd be lost myself without GS to help me keep track of everything. ) I'm not even sure some casual fans care about Worlds. For many, it's the Olympics or nothing (and I get it, as I am that way with every other sport besides gymnastics, figure skating, and tennis).

The way I share figure skating with my friends is to show them selected videos, and this is a rare occurrence. I think a regular person may be interested in a small competition, but only if they have a diehard fan to guide them through it, point out things that are excellent, tell them what's going on, prep them beforehand with background on skaters, etc. Full figure skating events seem unrealistic for the casual fan to want to sit through (and I don't blame them). It is increasingly difficult, even now, to accidentally "stumble upon" skaters unless the media covers them a lot, which only happens if they have already "succeeded," or it's assumed they will succeed.

Then again, I only want my non-fan friends to see programs that I think are excellent, so I would not feel comfortable telling them, "Watch this event. It'll take a while. Maybe there will be some good programs, or maybe it'll be a splatfest. We'll see." But maybe I'm an oddball?

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

A little bit off topic but close. Viasat got rights for EC and WC 2019 and also GP and it had to last to this season. Corona had some affection, but last year national TV which shows them free got the rights back for EC and WC before the contract to was closed. I am quite sure the reason was that number of viewers must have been a disappointment for Nordic Entertainment Group, the owner of Viasat. Many people who watch FS watch just what national TV shows and are not ready to pay for it. Viasat is also quite expensive, I decided too not to pay for it.

I don't know if you have heard me complaining, but NENT has recently launched Viaplay in the British Isles, and will be taking over the figure skating rights from British Eurosport at the end of this season. To accelerate their launch, they bought existing linear broadcaster Premier Sports. Although I am not planning on subscribing, I am curious to know how they are getting on with the sports they are already showing. So, I have been reading a thread about Viaplay UK on a broadcasting forum. And suffice to say, the comments have not been good. They have been scathing to say the least.

Before the purchase of Premier Sports, NENT said that when Viaplay launches in the British Isles, it would initially "focus on sports with an established Nordic connection". Hence why their initial announcement of rights deals included a number of Winter Sports (figure skating; speed skating; ice hockey; snowboarding); as well as handball; volleyball; and athletics. Being frank, none of these will get many viewers in the British Isles.

Buying Premier Sports has given Viaplay rights to mainstream sports like football, rugby, and cricket. Whereas these mainstream sports will generate subscribers, the sports initially announced will not. So I would not be surprised if they ditched these less popular sports as soon as they can. Unless, of course, if Viaplay got the British Isles rights on the cheap by tying them in with rights deals that they already have in countries where these sports are more popular. In which case, they will be kept as cheap filler.

If Viaplay did give up the figure skating rights in the British Isles, I can't see any of the Public Service Broadcasters picking them up like they did in Finland. It's just too obscure a sport in this part of the world. Yes, the BBC have covered Worlds for years, but the quality of the coverage has shown that they aren't at all interested in it.

Unfortunately, I can't see British Eurosport taking the figure skating back either. Discovery has recently taken over running premium network BT Sport, and it and British Eurosport are in the process of being combined into a new service which will use the "TNT Sports" name. By taking over BT Sport, Discovery now has rights to mainstream sports like football, rugby, cricket, and tennis. So, they are in the same boat that I have just described for Viaplay.

What I am getting round to saying is that I think that whatever the ISU provides will ultimately become the only option for viewing their events in the British Isles. And if that is a service that has to be paid for, they won't get many takers.

If ISU counts there are 3500 viewers when JGP is on, they should not count 3500 viewers will buy. More than 90 % of those 3500 will not, including me. And if there are no archives, it is bad, because people live in different parts of the earth and people got to work, study and need also to sleep. Very few will pay without archives.

Exactly.

Unfortunately, the ISU don't understand any of that. They haven't a clue how the modern world works. They only see numbers. Preferably with a pound sign in front of them.

And that is why the sport is not popular nowadays, and why it can't get new fans. Because if they take the sport behind the paywall, people will no longer be able to just stumble across it and become interested any more, like I did back in 2003.

Wow! Writing that has just made me realise that it is now 20 years since I first saw Carolina in that gold dress at Europeans in Malmö!

Where has the time gone?!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Princessroja]

A little bit off topic but close. Viasat got rights for EC and WC 2019 and also GP and it had to last to this season. Corona had some affection, but last year national TV which shows them free got the rights back for EC and WC before the contract to was closed. I am quite sure the reason was that number of viewers must have been a disappointment for Nordic Entertainment Group, the owner of Viasat. Many people who watch FS watch just what national TV shows and are not ready to pay for it. Viasat is also quite expensive, I decided too not to pay for it.

If ISU counts there are 3500 viewers when JGP is on, they should not count 3500 viewers will buy. More than 90 % of those 3500 will not, including me. And if there are no archives, it is bad, because people live in different parts of the earth and people got to work, study and need also to sleep. Very few will pay without archives.

Yeah, there's zero chance I'll pay for a JGP stream. I like tuning in now and then when I get a spare moment--seeing the young skaters is fun, and it gives me a chance to see up-and-coming talents. But paying for it? Nah. I don't see a pay-per-view JGP as being anything other than a complete failure financially.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Not going to get involved in the debate, because I would basically just be repeating what most of you guys have been saying. (i.e. "I'm not paying!"; "the ISU haven't a clue!"; and "the governing of figure skating needs to be split from the governing of speed skating!")

But, I just went to the IFS Magazine's Twittter page after seeing a post in another thread, and I found something interesting. Their most recent post (from 17th February) was a link to the ISU's Annual Survey (didn't even know they had one!)

https://survey.alchemer.eu/s3/90524447/ISU-Fan-Survey-2023-Newsletter

Sorry, but it was only open from 09:00 GMT on 16th February 2023 to 17:00 GMT on 23rd February 2023.

Realising that this latest development was probably related to it, I decided to go through it, out of curiosity.

Sure enough, one of the pages was entitled "Watching Ice Skating". And went as follows:

1. "How regularly do you currently watch Ice Skating events live?"
   (Please select one option)
   • Every competition
   • Just highlights
   • More than 5 events a season
   • Between 2 and 5 events a season
   • Less than 2 events a season
   • Just the Olympic Games, every 4 years
   • Never - Why?
   
   
   If you picked anything other than "Every competition", "Just the Olympics" or "Never", the following question appeared:
   
   
2. "Which ISU events do you watch regularly?"
   (Select all answers that apply)
   • World Cup
   • Junior World Cup
   • Grand prix
   • World Championships
   • European Championships
   • World Junior Championships
   
   
   I take it "World Cup" is the Senior GP Series; "Junior World Cup" is the Junior GP Series; and "Grand prix" is the GP Final.
   
   But, imagine an official survey from the sport's governing body not getting the names of the events that are held in their name correct!
   
   
   The next two questions only appear when you select something other than "Never" for question 1.
   
   
3. "How do you watch Ice Skating?"
   (Select all answers that apply)
   • TV
   • YouTube
   • Recast
   • Streaming platform - Please specify
   • Other - Please specify
   
   
4. "Have you heard about the Ice Skating Channel on Recast?"
   (Please select one option)
   • Yes
   • No
   
   
   The next question was always on the page:
   
   
5. "Would you like to have access to one destination for all Ice Skating coverage?"
   (Please select one option)
   • Yes
   • No
   
   
   And this final question appeared if you selected "Yes":
   
   
6. "Would you be prepared to pay an annual subscription or would you prefer to pay event-by-event?"
   (Please select one option)
   • Subscription
   • Pay per view

Notice also that they did not acknowledge that there are other services that skating gets streamed on, such as DailyMotion or National Federations' own services. It's only YouTube or Recast.

So, it looks like they have been planning this for a while, and decided to use this survey as a means to find out what people thought of it. But, without giving us the option of saying "No, we want it to stay free on YouTube"

CaroLiza_fan

Thanks for this....obviously, they did not make a good faith attempt to let us fans know about this survey. I follow them on social media. There should have been some warning and a longer open window...it also would have been better to have the country's feds do a survey in conjunction with this....I would love to know the demographics and fan level of people who watch skating on Peacock...is it just us??? Like I keep saying, I dont mind paying for quality content. And on demand due to the fact that events happen in all sorts of time zones. But the elephant in the room that no one at high levels wants to talk about is the very sudden apprearance of the "Wack a mole" Music industry that is going to insane levels to "protect" its controlled music. So what's next? Wacking a high school music/drama class for putting on "The Music Man" for five nights for a fun raiser???? I would appreciate alittle honesty and candor from the skating sport on where we were two years ago as far as how much did skater X/their fed/ISU pay for the use of a piece of music for a season? That's all marketing backwards. The music industry should be paying skating for promoting their music so they can increase sales....
The day the music died in Spokane

 

[CoyoteChris]

Yeah, there's zero chance I'll pay for a JGP stream. I like tuning in now and then when I get a spare moment--seeing the young skaters is fun, and it gives me a chance to see up-and-coming talents. But paying for it? Nah. I don't see a pay-per-view JGP as being anything other than a complete failure financially.

And its fine if people vote with their dollars and chose not to watch something for money. Right now, since this is a closed business, we have no idea how much it costs ISU to create the feed it sells to countries willing to pay for it. Charging the little guy out in internet land is just another profit stream for them.....I have a hard time believing that it will bring in much and that it will force people to give up their VPNs and buy Peacock and stay up all hours to watch.......but it is clear that some bean counter feels this is the correct path. We are just not privy to where the beans come from and go at this time.....

 

[Jeanie19]

Thanks for this....obviously, they did not make a good faith attempt to let us fans know about this survey. I follow them on social media. There should have been some warning and a longer open window...it also would have been better to have the country's feds do a survey in conjunction with this....I would love to know the demographics and fan level of people who watch skating on Peacock...is it just us??? Like I keep saying, I dont mind paying for quality content. And on demand due to the fact that events happen in all sorts of time zones. But the elephant in the room that no one at high levels wants to talk about is the very sudden apprearance of the "Wack a mole" Music industry that is going to insane levels to "protect" its controlled music. So what's next? Wacking a high school music/drama class for putting on "The Music Man" for five nights for a fun raiser???? I would appreciate alittle honesty and candor from the skating sport on where we were two years ago as far as how much did skater X/their fed/ISU pay for the use of a piece of music for a season? That's all marketing backwards. The music industry should be paying skating for promoting their music so they can increase sales....
The day the music died in Spokane

The music industry should pay the skaters to use their music. I've added music to my playlist. I don't listen to the radio. I only know Shallow because of figure skating.

 

[Amei]

Thanks for this....obviously, they did not make a good faith attempt to let us fans know about this survey. I follow them on social media. There should have been some warning and a longer open window...it also would have been better to have the country's feds do a survey in conjunction with this....I would love to know the demographics and fan level of people who watch skating on Peacock...is it just us??? Like I keep saying, I dont mind paying for quality content. And on demand due to the fact that events happen in all sorts of time zones. But the elephant in the room that no one at high levels wants to talk about is the very sudden apprearance of the "Wack a mole" Music industry that is going to insane levels to "protect" its controlled music. So what's next? Wacking a high school music/drama class for putting on "The Music Man" for five nights for a fun raiser???? I would appreciate alittle honesty and candor from the skating sport on where we were two years ago as far as how much did skater X/their fed/ISU pay for the use of a piece of music for a season? That's all marketing backwards. The music industry should be paying skating for promoting their music so they can increase sales....
The day the music died in Spokane

Have you seen viewership numbers in the past 10 years for figure skating in the US? This is how that pitch meeting probably goes:

ISU: "hey music executive why don't you pay us to use your copyrighted music so our small niche market can use it and a few people might like it enough to spend some money to buy a copy of that or some of your other music.... wait why are you laughing at me"

 

[skatedreamer]

Have you seen viewership numbers in the past 10 years for figure skating in the US? This is how that pitch meeting probably goes:

ISU: "hey music executive why don't you pay us to use your copyrighted music so our small niche market can use it and a few people might like it enough to spend some money to buy a copy of that or some of your other music.... wait why are you laughing at me"

Isn’t much of the music used by skaters in the public domain? I wouldn’t think that all of it is under copyright.

 

[Amei]

Isn’t much of the music used by skaters in the public domain? I wouldn’t think that all of it is under copyright.

Probably not all of it, which wouldn't be the music causing problems for stored streams with copyright claims being made. But the idea that those music companies should pay figure skaters who have a generally a very small niche market they touch to use copyrighted music with the idea that it would net a positive return for attracting people to their artists that would recoup the music company's cost is where I think people are getting blinded by their own figure skating fandom.

 

[skatesofgold]

Isn’t much of the music used by skaters in the public domain? I wouldn’t think that all of it is under copyright.

Not since they started letting the skaters use music with lyrics.