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Kwan vs. Wagner: Which is the better Spartacus?
- Thread starter daphna
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I love both SPs. I'd say Michelle's had an ease and flow across the ice, whereas Ashley's was more dramatic. Michelle's does have a slightly better cut of the music, but that's not enough to separate them. I'm taking no sides this time. 
@emma
I think Ashley is a little like Michelle in terms of projection, performance, and ability to connect with the audience.
@emma
I think Ashley is a little like Michelle in terms of projection, performance, and ability to connect with the audience.
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- Jan 11, 2014
Yuka Sato's from 1995 (I can't believe it's been that long....) is my favorite too. She had a lot of great pro programs (I loved her Kitaro one too a lot), but this one's my favorite. The step sequence at the end was a highlight. I loved the fast step sequences from back then.
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- Apr 19, 2011
Michelle's was better. I never realized how dramitic she was and how good of a spinner she was....Plus she rocked that red dress. No one skates like that now.
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- Jun 21, 2003
The ISU made its bed. Now they are lying in it.
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- Mar 20, 2004
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I still can't believe the upcoming U.S. Nationals will be the 10th Nationals since we last saw Michelle compete. And IIRC we only got to see her perform Spartacus twice at Nats and at Worlds where she was nudged off the podium by Kostner by a smidge. I remember thinking how could Michelle not be on the podium!
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She was nudged off the podium by her qualifying round. IIRC, if only she'd done some very basic COP things (hold x spin a little longer, ect.), she would've medalled.
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- Jun 21, 2003
It's interesting to see the PCS inflation from then (2005) to now. Irina Slutskaya, with perhaps the finest overall performance of her career, scored in the low eights across the board. Sasha Cohen, Michelle Kwan, Carolina Kostner, Miki Ando, Shizuka Arakawa -- the best they could manage was mid-sevens.
^^^ Yeah, it's interesting. Somehow the judges got it into their heads that they needed to give higher marks across the board. To be fair, Michelle Kwan really only competed in the new system once. Slutskaya and Cohen's marks are more representative of the trend since they competed often and were around their peaks in 2005. Kostner and Ando were still very young in 2005 and hadn't really developed their presentation (arguably Miki never really did, but she was still way better in 2011 than in 2005).
I think, it's also informative to see how the scores go up throughout the quads with the highest PCS scores often happening at the Olympics.
I think, it's also informative to see how the scores go up throughout the quads with the highest PCS scores often happening at the Olympics.
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- Mar 20, 2004
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I remember her saying afterward that it was hard to skate while counting how many revolutions in a spin, etc. I am sure she would have adapted to the new system, but I'm kind of glad we didn't have to see her programs jammed full of content just to add points rather than the beautifully choreographed programs we were used to seeing her perform.
ITA I miss her skating so much. I miss that era even more.
I don't think she felt well there either.. ANd she commented that the rink was cold. She even wore those ugly tights over the top of her boots. I really didn't think Caro deserved to be placed above her, though.
My favorite topic is Michelle...
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- Aug 15, 2003
I used to love Ann Patrice along with Ye Bin Mok. Under the current rules though, I think AP's jumps would get many < and <<.
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My favorite/favorite topic is Michelle also. I could watch her skate all day every day. I miss her so much that I cry whenever I see her skate! Yesterday, I watched her skating to Dante's Prayer (my all-time favorite besides Fields of Gold) at 7 different competitions and exhibitions and I cried every time! Just call me Miss Sentimental!
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2014
love both kwan and wagner's programs, but... i have to go with kwan. when wagner skates to it i have a very difficult time NOT seeing michelle's program in my mind's eye (of course this comes from so many years of watching and rewatching kwan programs so...)
DANTE'S PRAYER. That's skating. That program is so extraordinary. SHE is so extraordinary. The edges. The way every element just whispered across the ice and yet you felt the full power of her skating. Never has been, never will there be another.
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- Apr 12, 2014
Michelle all the way. The passion, the flow, and the overall impression from start to finish. Ashley's version doesn't come close to matching that, IMO.
So, I so do not want to go back and forth around debates about the now not new judging system and what it has or hasn't done to skating. For me, some things are awesome and some awful. That aside, back with 6.0, I really don't think anyone skated like Kwan - she was really amazing. Many skaters were also amazing and great etc, but no one then, skated like Kwan, for me; no one moved me like she does. And no one even now does either. I can still get choked up watching a program she skated that I have seen numerous time. Pretty amazing, really.
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- Sep 14, 2008
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Kwan, far and away.
Such a shame about Ashley's program. I'll just have to keep saying it over and over I suppose.
Such a shame about Ashley's program. I'll just have to keep saying it over and over I suppose.
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