- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Not objecting to your statement, but I see no reason for a judge to change his style from juniors to seniors. Can you explain?
Joe
Ladies' Grand Prix Final Points Breakdown
- Thread starter museksk8r
- Start date
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
MM. King of the World is Physics which begot Mathematics and other things; and Queen of the World is Philosophy which begot Reasoning and many of things.
I believe they came together with Lewison Carrol in his writings including his Alice going into wonderland. Logic is the word I'm seeking and it is found in math and phil.
Ps and Qs, Ifs and Ifs and Only Ifs. Trues and Falses. My mind is cracking in old age. Not to mention Probbility and Chance. Who ever thought I'd be thinking about these things?
What is the probability (if) of Kwan returning for the 2009 Nationals?
What is the chance (if and only if) she does, she'll win?
Joe
- Joined
- May 17, 2007
Double Amen
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Juniors is a lower standard in general then Seniors. You are probably judged relative to your competition and the standard expected at that level. I am not talking about 1 or 2 skaters at a time (eg- Asada and/or Kim, Zhang and/or Nagasu) but the overall field. Obviously skaters such as these stand out much more among their peers in juniors then seniors, especialy the latter two.
The same reason Nationals score are always higher then international scores, both pre-COP and now. National events is supposed to be a lower level overall thus skaters are judged by that standard, then the hardest standard at Worlds.
It's an improvement IMO, but I don't totally like it. It doesn't account for the strict calling at SA.
Sorry, don't get the whining on this one. If the calling is consistent across the competition, then it is fair. Ideally, it would be consistent across competitions but that would be asking machines to call the jumps, not people. And I don't know if it was really a renegade caller, or just that the ladies at SA tend to under-rotate their jumps. Because if you look at their other GP events, they got plenty of downgrades there too. Honestly, I wish more callers were as harsh as the SA one.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
I am happy she is going also. Don't be to sure about the harping though, I can hear it know .....well she's going but she really needs to address her flutz issues, speed, yada yada yada.....
Joannie's jumps were ALL shaky in the SP at Skate Canada and she underperformed her non-jump elements. The judges gave her lower PCS scores than the top SP skaters because she didn't attack her program---she started off shaky and remained shaky throughout. Nakano, even with a fall, scored above her in the SP, because Nakano shook off the fall, and went on to skate with zest. Even with a good FS, Joannie couldn't garner enough points to pass Nakano for silver.
Joannie's SP at CoR was even worse. She fell on the combo and two of her spins were only L2. Nakano beat her in the SP by almost 10 points, and even a PB FS from Joannie couldn't make up the deficit.
Joannie has a bad habit of being tentative in her SPs, and that causes her to make very costly mistakes. Judges pick up on the lack of confidence, and that is reflected in the PCS scores. She doesn't get 'lowballed', she gets the PCS scores her SP performances deserve.
Total score isn't the prime factor in the GP series, placement in each event is. Joannie placed 3rd in each of her two events because she bombed her SP in both.
At Worlds, SP placement is even more important, because if a skater places out of the top flight for the FS, the podium becomes out of reach. Joannie has never made the top flight for the FS at Worlds because she consistently makes mistakes in her SPs. And with no QR from 2007 on, the SP becomes more critical than ever. At 2007 Worlds, Joannie placed 16th in the SP, and even a 5th place in the FS couldn't raise her any higher than 10th overall.
Joannie has a long-standing habit of not doing well in the SPs, and if she doesn't do something to change that, she will never threaten for the podium at Worlds.
Well, I would respect your position more if you said Kostner's and Czisny's underrotations at the NHK short program should have been downgraded, but you only wanted Czisny dinged. Specifically, Kostner's 3T and 3Lz in the short program were at the 1/4 turn short zone. Both of those jumps were shown in slow motion replay for all to see. Czisny landed her underrotations cleanly but Kostner's underrotations were highlighted by a balance check on the 3T and a turnout on the 3Lz. Meier's jumps were not close to the 1/4 turn short zone. Kostner was very fortunate to make it into the finals over Meier.
All she has to do now is stop shaking like an aspen and skate decently for once in her home country. THAT would be a novelty.
Andalusia referred to Caroline (Zhang) not Carolina (Kostner)! The former skates quite well in her home country!
I have not had the privilege of seeing Kostner in person--and I believe that's the only way one can sense the true speed with which she skates. Maybe I'll get the chance at Olympics!!! I like her skating--even if she's not at her best. She certainly gets the respect of judges!
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2006
I know this does not directly relate to GPF, but I saw the Kurt Browning "Gotta Skate Show" and Joannie Rochette was BEAUTIFUL in that show. She seemed very happy and relaxed there, and if she could just transfer that same feeling to her competitive numbers, she would be one of the very top skaters, I think.
It's easy to be happy and relaxed when you're not skating a complicated program before a panel of judges who can make or break your competitive career.
I've never seen a nervous, uptight skater at a skating show. They are there to earn money and have fun. OTOH, I've rarely seen a happy, relaxed skater win a competitive event. Skaters need a little adrenaline to give their competitive programs that extra little edge.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
- Country
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chuckm, we get it, you don't like Joannie Rochette, but don't over-exaggerate her performances in the SP by saying "she bombs" them. Bombing to me is popping jumps to singles or playing zamboni to the ice on every element. In Skate Canada, she skated cautiously in her SP, fought to land the 3flip and slightly two-footed the 3Lutz, but there were no MAJOR mistakes. In Cup of Russia, the pressure to hit that 3flip+3toe in competition as cleanly as she is able to execute it in warm-ups and practices got to her and she caved on the 3flip with a fall, but she did everything else well. You can be critical, but give her SOME credit for what she does well too.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I liked the way Joannie skated her Long Programs in Skate Canada and NHK. She had a tougher field in COR than Carolina and Sarah had in NHK So much of the placements in the individual GPs depend on Who's Who in the Mix.
Joe
Joe
I just noticed that the original poster left Wagner out of the CoP points picture. She's actually 8th on CoP points and so should get the 3 point bonus, not Kostner. So ...
1 Kim 30+15=45
2 Asada 30+13=43
3 Nakano 26+11=37
4 Meissner 28+7=35
5 Rochette 22+9=31
6 Zhang 24+4=28
7 Meier 22+5=27
8 Kostner 26+0=26
9 Ando 22+0=22
10 Wagner 18+3=21
Mmmm, better.
---
Here are a couple of other rankings by points.
Top 16 by total TES:
1 203.76 Kim
2 185.08 Nakano
3 183.98 Asada
4 181.81 Rochette
5 167.05 Wagner
6 166.36 Takeda
7 163.05 Zhang
8 154.24 Glebova
9 153.03 Leung
10 152.88 Hughes
11 152.83 Lepisto
12 151.39 Hawker
13 151.13 Meissner
14 149.68 Meier
15 148.43 Kostner
16 145.34 Ando
Top 16 by total PCS:
1 175.48 Asada
2 174.12 Kim
3 171.84 Meissner
4 166.36 Ando
5 163.12 Kostner
6 161.64 Meier
7 158.12 Nakano
8 157.28 Rochette
9 150.04 Hughes
10 149.64 Zhang
11 142.40 Czisny
12 141.68 Suguri
13 141.64 Wagner
14 141.44 Lepisto
15 141.32 Sebestyen
16 137.52 Takeda
BTW, 26 ladies completed two GP events.
1 Kim 30+15=45
2 Asada 30+13=43
3 Nakano 26+11=37
4 Meissner 28+7=35
5 Rochette 22+9=31
6 Zhang 24+4=28
7 Meier 22+5=27
8 Kostner 26+0=26
9 Ando 22+0=22
10 Wagner 18+3=21
Mmmm, better.
---
Here are a couple of other rankings by points.
Top 16 by total TES:
1 203.76 Kim
2 185.08 Nakano
3 183.98 Asada
4 181.81 Rochette
5 167.05 Wagner
6 166.36 Takeda
7 163.05 Zhang
8 154.24 Glebova
9 153.03 Leung
10 152.88 Hughes
11 152.83 Lepisto
12 151.39 Hawker
13 151.13 Meissner
14 149.68 Meier
15 148.43 Kostner
16 145.34 Ando
Top 16 by total PCS:
1 175.48 Asada
2 174.12 Kim
3 171.84 Meissner
4 166.36 Ando
5 163.12 Kostner
6 161.64 Meier
7 158.12 Nakano
8 157.28 Rochette
9 150.04 Hughes
10 149.64 Zhang
11 142.40 Czisny
12 141.68 Suguri
13 141.64 Wagner
14 141.44 Lepisto
15 141.32 Sebestyen
16 137.52 Takeda
BTW, 26 ladies completed two GP events.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
^ Interesting. Missner is only 13th in technical scores, but third in presentation! :scratch:
Go Nana Takeda!
Kimmie is a very beautiful skater, so even if her technical elements are not her best she still makes up for it was strong PCS.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2004
Oh how I wish you skating fans would make up your minds... is Kimmie only a jumping machine or is she a presentation only lady... I can't remember who to like and dislike if y'all don't figure out which box to put which skater in... Next thing you know - we'll have skaters who are just great, all around skaters and then what will we do??? (KW storms off - but not before giving sluskayafan a wink and a smile...
)
