Ladies LP

[LeCygne]

The combination of a beautiful triple lutz and underrotated triple loop is a poorly done combination. Period.

You obviously haven't seen some of those "underrotated" 3-3's..

 

[skatingbc]

You obviously haven't seen some of those "underrotated" 3-3's..

Some certainly do look pretty, but they're still UR.

 

[Blades of Passion]

The combination of a beautiful triple lutz and underrotated triple loop is a poorly done combination. Period.

In comparison to what, a perfectly executed 3Lutz/3Loop? Sure.

But NOT in comparison to a 3Lutz(with a hard landing)/2Toe.

Think about what you're actually saying. If Miki's combination was "poorly" done, then Joannie's was even more poor.

 

[shine]

It's too bad that the qualities you've written about didn't define Joannie's performance (IMO). The choreography she was given might have been aiming for those things, but the way she emotes and moves her body does not reflect it very well. I think her program from last year was a much better fit.

According to...you? Some of us definitely felt the freedom and expression from her performance despite the jump mistakes and even think it was the best she has presented the program this season. And judging from her PCS, the judges probably did as well.

 

[skatingbc]

In comparison to what, a perfectly executed 3Lutz/3Loop? Sure.

But NOT in comparison to a 3Lutz(with a hard landing)/2Toe.

Think about what you're actually saying. If Miki's combination was "poorly" done, then Joannie's was even more poor.

I would rather see more combinations like Joannie's, than see consistently underrotated triple-triple combos. Sorry, jmo. You are welcome to disagree.

 

[Alicja]

In comparison to what, a perfectly executed 3Lutz/3Loop? Sure.

But NOT in comparison to a 3Lutz(with a hard landing)/2Toe.

Think about what you're actually saying. If Miki's combination was "poorly" done, then Joannie's was even more poor.

The point is that skaters know what they risk when they are attempting a 3-3 with the loop as the second jump. Not even so much with underrotating them but with prerotating the loop. Unfortunately under the current rules an underrotated 3-3 is worth less than a 3-2 but everybody knows and it's up to them what they want to choose.

As for the hard landing of Joannie's lutz, the judge who gave her +2 was clearly wrong but those who gave her a 0 GOE were right IMO, because it was an ok lutz, no two-footing, no step out, no wrong edge, just a bit of a hard landing.

 

[Blades of Passion]

According to...you? Some of us definitely felt the freedom and expression from her performance despite the jump mistakes and even think it was the best she has presented the program this season. And judging from her PCS, the judges probably did as well.

That's fine, I never said you couldn't have your opinion? I was simply stating mine. Again, though, I should point out that the judges didn't give Joannie higher PCS in the LP than Miki or Mao. She received the Silver medal because the scoring system deemed that doubling Triples (which equates to underrotating them an entire turn) is less of a penalty than underrotating a Triple by a 1/4 to a 1/3 of a turn.

 

[museksk8r]

According to...you?

I see that you didn't get the memo that Blades of Passion is the omniscient voice in all that is figure skating, either. According to him/her, all of our impressions and opinions are wrong.

 

[fumie_fumie]

Joannie didn't have big combos in competition like Miki and Mao, because she spent a huge amount of time in her developing years learning the proper techniques. She now fully rotates and cleanly takes off on loops instead of skidding off on takeoff. She spent 2 years fixing her flutzes. Had she decided to ignore her flutzs or cheated jumps and rushed to add 3-3 in her arsenal, she would have had a big 3-3 in competitions, but paid in downgrades.

So the judging system is fair in the sense that it rewards skaters who invested their energy and effort to perfect the right ways, rather than those who rush to pick up big tricks. It encourages the developing skaters to do it right way, or else you pay for it later in your skating career.

 

[museksk8r]

Joannie didn't have big combos in competition like Miki and Mao, because she spent a huge amount of time in her developing years learning the proper techniques. She now fully rotates and cleanly takes off on loops instead of skidding off on takeoff. She spent 2 years fixing her flutzes. Had she decided to ignore her flutzs or cheated jumps and rushed to add 3-3 in her arsenal, she would have had a big 3-3 in competitions, but paid in downgrades.

So the judging system is fair in the sense that it rewards skaters who invested their energy and effort to perfect the right ways, rather than those who rush to pick up big tricks. It encourages the developing skaters to do it right way, or else you pay for it later in your skating career.

Yes, she doesn't have the lazy free leg on her jump landings.

 

[i love to skate]

So the judging system is fair in the sense that it rewards skaters who invested their energy and effort to perfect the right ways, rather than those who rush to pick up big tricks. It encourages the developing skaters to do it right way, or else you pay for it later in your skating career.

ITA. I can't remember how many times I was at competitions when I was younger and would watch the lower levels and ten year old girls were already cheating all their double jumps. I think the new system really emphasizes proper techinique.

 

[TripletA]

ITA. I can't remember how many times I was at competitions when I was younger and would watch the lower levels and ten year old girls were already cheating all their double jumps. I think the new system really emphasizes proper techinique.

The new system emphasizes fully rotated jumps fully this season (for the first time) Before skaters were getting away with it.

 

[TripletA]

I was in full agreement with those that felt Joannie had no place on the podium with her LP being less then what it should be but after reading this thread I have changed my mind.

I agree 100% that a fully rotated triple double should be given more credit then a cheated triple triple (even if the first jump is clean) If you are going to try the harder stuff and cheat your jumps then you should not be trying the harder jumps.

I just wish Fumie's fully rotated jumps were given the credit that everyone elses are. It seems like she never is.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I see that you didn't get the memo that Blades of Passion is the omniscient voice in all that is figure skating, either. According to him/her, all of our impressions and opinions are wrong.

Oh please, you're simply being a fanboy(girl). I'm not going to feel sorry for trying to judge objectively instead of simply holding up the skater from my country.

If Joannie was the one in 4th place because these injustices in the scoring system you would be upset.

I would rather see more combinations like Joannie's, than see consistently underrotated triple-triple combos. Sorry, jmo. You are welcome to disagree.

If those underrotated triple-triples were causing poor landings your argument would make sense. But Miki's landings weren't bad? Her Lutz was absolutely better than Joannie's and you have yet to acknowledge that point.

When Joannie doubled her Loop in the LP were you happy? Was that better to you than Miki's huge 3Loop which was 1/4 turn short?

Joannie didn't have big combos in competition like Miki and Mao, because she spent a huge amount of time in her developing years learning the proper techniques. She now fully rotates and cleanly takes off on loops instead of skidding off on takeoff. She spent 2 years fixing her flutzes. Had she decided to ignore her flutzs or cheated jumps and rushed to add 3-3 in her arsenal, she would have had a big 3-3 in competitions, but paid in downgrades.

I'm not sure what your point is in relation to the discussion at hand. Miki doesn't flutz. Your statement of "cleanly taking off on loops" doesn't make sense either. Joannie pre-rotates her Loop a whole half turn (when she does it correctly), just like every other skater. That's how you're supposed to do the jump. Joannie has actually messed up her 3Loop at the past two World Championships because she didn't takeoff properly and rushed the entry.

Her Lutz has been fixed for years and she has had plenty of time to practice Triple-Triples. The fact is that she simply isn't good enough on that element to do it in competition. I'm not sure why she should be given a pass for not being able to do something.

The point is that skaters know what they risk when they are attempting a 3-3. Unfortunately under the current rules an underrotated 3-3 is worth less than a 3-2 but everybody knows and it's up to them what they want to choose.

Unjust laws should not be seen as correct simply because they are there. I would use the word "wrong", not "unfortunate". Unfortunate gives the connotation of something that can't be changed. This problem is the fault of the ISU, not the skaters. Various CoP problems have been talked about for years and the ISU continues to ignore them.

 

[skatingbc]

If those underrotated triple-triples were causing poor landings your argument would make sense. But Miki's landings weren't bad? Her Lutz was absolutely better than Joannie's and you have yet to acknowledge that point.

When Joannie doubled her Loop in the LP were you happy? Was that better to you than Miki's huge 3Loop which was 1/4 turn short?

What about flutzing/lipping? Technically the landing can be excellent but that doesn't mean the jump was done properly. An underrotated landing is a poor landing. It may look esthetically pleasing, but it's not a proper landing. Miki's lutz was better than Joannie's. Joannie took off a bit wonky and had to fight for the landing, I'm not denying the first jump. However, Joannie's combination was better because she fully rotated both jumps.

To be honest, I was just happy that she landed that lutz. I just wanted her to go clean. It was better than Miki's "huge" loop that was UR. Again, JMO. You are entitled to yours and I am entitled to mine.

 

[museksk8r]

Oh please, you're simply being a fanboy(girl). I'm not going to feel sorry for trying to judge objectively instead of simply holding up the skater from my country.

If Joannie was the one in 4th place because these injustices in the scoring system you would be upset.

Fail. I'm a US citizen, born and raised. I'm a fan of many skaters from all nations around the world. I am being objective in my comments. It was bad judgment on the part of Mao and her coach to attempt a 3Lutz, her weakest jump, in the SP. The judges have time and time again given Asada an "e" or a "!" on her faulty Lutz, but Team Asada made the choice to attempt it anyway and Mao doubted her technique and doubled it. Also, Mao and Tatiana had to know that attempting two 3Axels in the LP was a very risky move. That's Team Mao's fault, not the judges. If she can't manage the technique and content properly under pressure, she shouldn't be attempting it. Same with Miki Ando. Time and time again, she has been downgraded for her under-rotated 3loop attempts in competition, but Team Ando made the decision to attempt them anyway, faulty technique and all. It's not the judges' fault that correct technique was not taught and that smart jump layouts were not planned.

 

[fumie_fumie]

Fail. I'm a US citizen, born and raised. I'm a fan of many skaters from all nations around the world. I am being objective in my comments. It was bad judgment on the part of Mao and her coach to attempt a 3Lutz, her weakest jump, in the SP. The judges have time and time again given Asada an "e" or a "!" on her faulty Lutz, but Team Asada made the choice to attempt it anyway and Mao doubted her technique and doubled it. Also, Mao and Tatiana had to know that attempting two 3Axels in the LP was a very risky move. That's Team Mao's fault, not the judges. If she can't manage the technique and content properly under pressure, she shouldn't be attempting it. Same with Miki Ando. Time and time again, she has been downgraded for her under-rotated 3loop attempts in competition, but Team Ando made the decision to attempt them anyway, faulty technique and all. It's not the judges' fault that correct technique was not taught and that smart jump layouts were not planned.

ITA. Someone didn't check the rulebooks and judges are accountable for someone else not doing their homework.

To Blades of Passion

Joannie finished her process of fixing her flutz at the age of 17. Look at what Mao is going through at the same age with the same problem. Even the genius Mao can't solve the problem overnight. It is getting to a point where you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

On the other hand, Mao got her 3-3 at 12 or 13. Imagine Mao trying to learn 3-3 at the age of 19 or 20, after she gets her 3lutz sorted out. Maybe, it is not the case of having plenty of time to learn, rather it is the case of getting too old to learn.

Save yourself from insulting other posters. That will give your posts more credibility.

 

[Tinymavy15]

Overall i think this year ladies free skate is higher in quality than previous year. All the top 12 ladies after the SP skate it very well (except Kostner meltdown) =(. The number of falls from the top 12 ladies is far less than last year and most important of all, no tumble from the american ladies.

I can't wait for the Olympics even thou it's 10 months away.

I am not sure if there was higher quality. Only yu-na landed a ratified 3/3 and i believe she was the only lady to try one in the freeskate (maybe Elena G. tried one... not sure).

i guess thuis caused the lack of falls.

I am more scared about the olympics than excited. When the judeging creates this much turmoil at worlds, I fear that they will cause an outright war if they pull stuff like that at the olympics!

 

[Dipyramidal]

i am japanese and i live in japan, and i can telll you from my experince that mao has been critized very bluntly and very impertinently. Sadly many of the reporters in japan think mao did not give 100%. I'm not going to rebel against this because then more and more news and different views of mao will surface. -_-./

 

[Wrlmy]

i am japanese and i live in japan, and i can telll you from my experince that mao has been critized very bluntly and very impertinently. Sadly many of the reporters in japan think mao did not give 100%. I'm not going to rebel against this because then more and more news and different views of mao will surface. -_-./

That's just sad. I know it's the media rather than the public, but the media can be incredibly nasty. Miki Ando after Turin? It's almost like Asian skaters have about 100 times the pressure any other skater has to put up with. No athlete can win everyting in sight. And who the f**k feels entitled to blame her for not doing so? Did they pay for her skating lessons? Things like this drive me nuts.:banging: