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- Aug 15, 2003
LOL, I hate snakes!! I don't know why someone threw a shoe instead of a stuffed animal.. I wonder he or she was mad that Mao didn't skate clean?shoe...snake... ??? yeah, I see the similarities there..
hello, random!
Ladies SP
- Thread starter HCOSurfer
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The scoring at this event was so high. Protocols should be interesting.
I found Kostner's score to be the most inflated (as always). She made 3 mistakes and still got a 63??
I found Kostner's score to be the most inflated (as always). She made 3 mistakes and still got a 63??
Did you throw an ugly stuffed animal after her skate?
I was talking to Japanese friends on the phone today. She has told me that she heard that crazy rumor,but it was a stuffed animal thrown for Mao on the ice. I do not think anyone would ever throw shoes on the ice.
That's one crazy rumor
So journalists make up all kinds of crap. Who knew?
Caroline just got unlucky this year. The timing was bad. I meant for next year though. Of course not having 3 spots will affect somebody. And I'm a big believer in that life experience for the 3rd girl, but my statement was regarding Caroline's chances only. As of the end of this season, anyway. I realize a lot can change next season.
That's exactly my point about Alissa. You're exactly right, and I hope that USFSA will see that. I think the "National champ gets to go" rule doesn't apply as much for the Olympics (is there even such a rule for Olys?), so even if Alissa wins again next year, no worries...
I was wondering this about Caroline, but it could apply to anyone. Suppose she does well through most of next season and inexplicably bombs at Nationals - I wonder if the USFS would still consider naming her to the Olympic team. Let's say Alissa further bombs today, but rebounds next season and is just off the podium at Nats...would Alissa be named to the Olympic team? Hmm...
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
My computer crashed right after SP, so I could not take part in the discussion 'live'
Writing about SP might not have much sense, because even LP is over now, but I do not like leaving my thoughts out.
I did not have problems with Yu-Na leading so clearly (although she should have lost tiny bit of her points due to ! call).
But I have to agree with quotes below. I just cannot feel her. And although she is not just a jumping bean, her spins and spirals do not blow me off. Steps are very good, but there are skaters who are better at steps too (for example Mao). Apart from single elements, there is something missing as the whole.
I so agree with you, like I would read my mind
I do not get why many people here pick on Rachel so much. She was not worse from the rest of bunch (places 5-11). She made similar mistakes as others. Her spins in the SP were quite good this time. Saying tha she robbed Fumie is beyond ridiculous. Fumie finished behind the music, had few wobbles, and, apart from that, her expression is just not there any more... I found her program boring, whereas Rachel is very fresh and joyfull. Fumie does not have spark any more.
Many ladies were overscored, but some more than the others. I don't understand Lepisto score. Although she is lovely to watch, there is no way that a skater with 3T-2T and a mistake in the step sequence could be placed in the final group. Look at Elena Glebova (for example), with a lovely 3T-3T, no major mistake, good levels on other elements and pleasant skate too. How come Lepisto ended up 7 places above her??
I liked Miki's SP.. I rarely enjoy her, but I did.
Writing about SP might not have much sense, because even LP is over now, but I do not like leaving my thoughts out.
I did not have problems with Yu-Na leading so clearly (although she should have lost tiny bit of her points due to ! call).
But I have to agree with quotes below. I just cannot feel her. And although she is not just a jumping bean, her spins and spirals do not blow me off. Steps are very good, but there are skaters who are better at steps too (for example Mao). Apart from single elements, there is something missing as the whole.
I so agree with you, like I would read my mind
I do not get why many people here pick on Rachel so much. She was not worse from the rest of bunch (places 5-11). She made similar mistakes as others. Her spins in the SP were quite good this time. Saying tha she robbed Fumie is beyond ridiculous. Fumie finished behind the music, had few wobbles, and, apart from that, her expression is just not there any more... I found her program boring, whereas Rachel is very fresh and joyfull. Fumie does not have spark any more.
Many ladies were overscored, but some more than the others. I don't understand Lepisto score. Although she is lovely to watch, there is no way that a skater with 3T-2T and a mistake in the step sequence could be placed in the final group. Look at Elena Glebova (for example), with a lovely 3T-3T, no major mistake, good levels on other elements and pleasant skate too. How come Lepisto ended up 7 places above her??
I liked Miki's SP.. I rarely enjoy her, but I did.
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Someone posted on youtube about that in a high quality clip. It was not a shoe but a stuffed animal. Looked like a dog with long waist and short legs... possibly a dachshund?
I tried to find the link but it looks like it's been removed. I don't know why.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
I suppose it's just the different tastes that people have. I've only ever seen Flatt's skates on youtube until now and have always been suprised by people's comments on her musicality etc because i see none. I didn't find her SP interesting at all (haven't watched the LP) and found it quite boring and very middle of the road. I thought Fumie skated better than her in every way and i've normally found Fumie's skating to be pretty boring.
I think Lepisto benefitted from being European Champion! She did skate pretty well but she does tend to pop the 3/3. Glebova was undermarked I agree and i would have had both Lepitso and Flatt behind her.
I completely agree with this - I thought her LP was just jump checking (which is how I always feel about Miki) but this SP had real character and she paid attention to the music!
Ant
Fumie had far too many glitches in her FS to be placed over Flatt. Maybe you don't like Flatt, but she did complete 6 clean triples; give credit where credit is due.
Fumie, OTOH, got edge calls on both of her lutzes (Rachael got none), did an underrotated 2S, and didn't do her second 3F in combination. In all, she landed only two clean triples. Rachael also got higher levels than Fumie in spins and spiral. IMO (and the judges, who placed Fumie 9th to Rachael's 5th) Fumie did NOT skate better than Rachael in ANY way.
Lepisto also benefitted from being European, and from having skated in the final group.
As for Glebova being undermarked, what performance were you looking at? Glebova's FS was a trainwreck. She had two falls. She did not receive +GOE on any element except her spiral sequence, which was her only level4 element. She landed 3 clean triples: two 3S and a 3T. She never even attempted her 3T+3T combo. Considering that this was her 2nd year in a row with this FS program, she should have been a lot better than this. But she wasn't.
Lepisto landed only two clean triples, a 3L and a 3S, but she did receive +GOE for her two 2As and her clean triples; three of her non-jump elements were level4 and she received +GOE on those.
I can see zero justification for placing Glebova ahead of Lepisto or Flatt. The only skater she should have been placed ahead of was Carolina Kostner, but Kostner's huge PCS scores prevented that.
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- Feb 5, 2004
Since this is a thread about the SP and i specifically said in my post that i haven't yet watched the LPs I thought it was pretty clear that i meant that Fumie should have placed higher than Flatt in the SP and that Flatt and Lepisto should have both been lower than Glebova in the SP.
The performance she gave in the SP...again, slowly just in case you missed it...the SP.
Ant
I even liked her Morozovian costume for her SP. SEriously. I found these pink flowers going extremely well with navy blue dress. It was interesting!
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- Feb 5, 2004
To me, the most important thing that a skater should show in front of the audience is confidence. Confidence is the the most basic ingredient to draw audience into her performance; it sets up the tone for the performance and helps deliver her emotions to the audience. Then, where does a skater's confidence come from? It comes from her belief that she will execute the major elements in the program well.
One possible way of defining figure skating might be that it is a sport with a goal of reducing uncertainty. Expecially to top contenders who have all the jumps and spins already in their arsenal, they go through repeated practice to achieve two things; to improve their average performance quality, and also to reduce the varying range of ups and downs of their performance, making its quality more consistant. Once her average perofrmance is heightened and consistency is achieved, the skater is able to get peace of mind because she is almost certain about what quality to expect from her next triple jumps or combination spins. This sense of certainty serves as a source of her confidence during her performance in the competitions.
During the ladies' SP, I found skater's confidence in a few performances: the SPs of Joannie Rochette, Rachael Flatt, Miki Ando, and Yu-Na Kim. They knew, because of their solid practice sessions over the week, that they will execute the major jumps, spins and footworks well,and that confidence was present from start to finish throughout their programs; whether or not they made mistakes, I thoroughly enjoyed their performance as I watched them live at the Staples' Center because I felt their emotions and energy through their confidence.
On the other hand, there were a few skaters from whose performance I got absolutely nothing. Alissa Czisny, a beautiful skater with wonderful ice presence, wasn't projecting her confidence, probably because of her jump inconsistency that had plagued her performance all season long. I am a big fan of hers, and I even waited in a line for 30 minutes to get her autograph. But she failed to sell her performance to the audience that day, not because of the two falls that she suffered during her jumps, but because she failed to project a confidence self to the audience. There is another skater I got absolutely nothing out of: Mao Asada. What a shame it was. Whenever she set herself up for a jump, I saw the intense, defeated look across her face. It completely turned me off COLD. In fact, she managed to keep that intense look on her face throughout her SP, driving the audience away from her skating. I have to say it was a very disappointing performance from her. Her program lit up just a little bit at the step sequence, but way sloppy and childish compared to that of Joannie or of Yu-Na Kim. Again, only if she showed more confidence during the program instead of mentally withdrawing, she would have been able to sell her performance and get a higher PCS along the process despite her terrible Lutz, if you can call it that.
I used to be a fan of hers; her 2007 LP at the Worlds was just phenomenal, full of care-free confidence that drove the audience wild. What happened to that Mao Asada? I think the thing that took the skater's confidence away from Asada is the fact that she is no longer a secure jumper. Her triple-triples have been downgraded constantly all season long, and her Lutz and Salchow simply do not exist. There are so many combinations a skater can pull out of so limited choices of jumps. Then, what does she have to do to get her points? Well, she has to rely on the risky triple Axel to make up the points, by doing it not once, but twice in a program! Doing it twice in a program is not an act of bravery or show-off, but of desperation. No wonder she has the defeated look every time she engages in her jumps.
How would Asada be able to lose that defeated look that is quickly becoming something that defines her and allow the audience to enjoy her performance again? I do not think a mere program change will cure her problems. Besides working on her jumps like there is no tomorrow, I think she really needs to go back to her basic training and try to improve her other elements as well. Even her spins, previously strong element of hers, mostly received level three after her SP and LP. Her footworks also received low points, lower than Rochette and Kim after her SP. Improving those poor spins and fixing up the deteriorating jumps would be a tough work, but that is something that needs to be done if she wants to be taken seriously as a competitor getting into the Olympic season. If she cannot improve on these basic elements, not only she will continue to be punished with embarassingly low scores for her standards, but also her passive performance will continue to fail to entertain the audience. Also, she simply needs to put more hours in training. As an official at Japan Skating Federation complained after her poor showings at the Worlds, she should stop slacking and increase her training load from 20 some hours a week to 40 or more, like other competitive skaters in her tier, Rochette, Ando and Kim, had done to prepare for the Worlds; she should remind herself of the fact that she has been dethroned twice this season and should work hard as an underdog, which is the case now. Otherwise, Miki Ando, who has been in the Asada's shadow for the last a few years but proved herself again worthy of a podium spot at the Worlds with the solid jumping techniques, will eat her alive in the next season!
One possible way of defining figure skating might be that it is a sport with a goal of reducing uncertainty. Expecially to top contenders who have all the jumps and spins already in their arsenal, they go through repeated practice to achieve two things; to improve their average performance quality, and also to reduce the varying range of ups and downs of their performance, making its quality more consistant. Once her average perofrmance is heightened and consistency is achieved, the skater is able to get peace of mind because she is almost certain about what quality to expect from her next triple jumps or combination spins. This sense of certainty serves as a source of her confidence during her performance in the competitions.
During the ladies' SP, I found skater's confidence in a few performances: the SPs of Joannie Rochette, Rachael Flatt, Miki Ando, and Yu-Na Kim. They knew, because of their solid practice sessions over the week, that they will execute the major jumps, spins and footworks well,and that confidence was present from start to finish throughout their programs; whether or not they made mistakes, I thoroughly enjoyed their performance as I watched them live at the Staples' Center because I felt their emotions and energy through their confidence.
On the other hand, there were a few skaters from whose performance I got absolutely nothing. Alissa Czisny, a beautiful skater with wonderful ice presence, wasn't projecting her confidence, probably because of her jump inconsistency that had plagued her performance all season long. I am a big fan of hers, and I even waited in a line for 30 minutes to get her autograph. But she failed to sell her performance to the audience that day, not because of the two falls that she suffered during her jumps, but because she failed to project a confidence self to the audience. There is another skater I got absolutely nothing out of: Mao Asada. What a shame it was. Whenever she set herself up for a jump, I saw the intense, defeated look across her face. It completely turned me off COLD. In fact, she managed to keep that intense look on her face throughout her SP, driving the audience away from her skating. I have to say it was a very disappointing performance from her. Her program lit up just a little bit at the step sequence, but way sloppy and childish compared to that of Joannie or of Yu-Na Kim. Again, only if she showed more confidence during the program instead of mentally withdrawing, she would have been able to sell her performance and get a higher PCS along the process despite her terrible Lutz, if you can call it that.
I used to be a fan of hers; her 2007 LP at the Worlds was just phenomenal, full of care-free confidence that drove the audience wild. What happened to that Mao Asada? I think the thing that took the skater's confidence away from Asada is the fact that she is no longer a secure jumper. Her triple-triples have been downgraded constantly all season long, and her Lutz and Salchow simply do not exist. There are so many combinations a skater can pull out of so limited choices of jumps. Then, what does she have to do to get her points? Well, she has to rely on the risky triple Axel to make up the points, by doing it not once, but twice in a program! Doing it twice in a program is not an act of bravery or show-off, but of desperation. No wonder she has the defeated look every time she engages in her jumps.
How would Asada be able to lose that defeated look that is quickly becoming something that defines her and allow the audience to enjoy her performance again? I do not think a mere program change will cure her problems. Besides working on her jumps like there is no tomorrow, I think she really needs to go back to her basic training and try to improve her other elements as well. Even her spins, previously strong element of hers, mostly received level three after her SP and LP. Her footworks also received low points, lower than Rochette and Kim after her SP. Improving those poor spins and fixing up the deteriorating jumps would be a tough work, but that is something that needs to be done if she wants to be taken seriously as a competitor getting into the Olympic season. If she cannot improve on these basic elements, not only she will continue to be punished with embarassingly low scores for her standards, but also her passive performance will continue to fail to entertain the audience. Also, she simply needs to put more hours in training. As an official at Japan Skating Federation complained after her poor showings at the Worlds, she should stop slacking and increase her training load from 20 some hours a week to 40 or more, like other competitive skaters in her tier, Rochette, Ando and Kim, had done to prepare for the Worlds; she should remind herself of the fact that she has been dethroned twice this season and should work hard as an underdog, which is the case now. Otherwise, Miki Ando, who has been in the Asada's shadow for the last a few years but proved herself again worthy of a podium spot at the Worlds with the solid jumping techniques, will eat her alive in the next season!
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A female doing two Triple Axels, a jump that almost no female is capable of doing, is an "act of desperation"?
I agree. Nice insight.
And I agree...you bring up a really good point about confidence being the "core piece" to presentation. If you're not confident, then it shows in your performance as tentativeness and thus it can appear as if you're going through the motions. Very good point, something I didn't really think about until now.
Still though, confidence is not enough. You still need that natural ability to pull an audience in, and if you don't have that, you'll still come across as plain (Rachel Flatt at Nats, for example).
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Yes, Rachael would see great improvement in her PCS if she dramatically improves her posture, improves her speed and positions in her spins, and if she includes more difficult transitions in her programs. Hopefully, these improvements will come with time.
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