Miki Ando, the most talented skater in the world
- Thread starter Tristan
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People like to use the skater's age of getting the medals as a standard to compare and measure skaters. But the skating level keeps upgrading each year, and who and who had what titles at what age and what presentation 5 or 10 years ago are not that critical today. Miki Ando can do 3/3 easily, and can land quads. Who else has these tricks? Sure in terms of presentation, she is a little bit green, but I feel if she has more time to work with some top choreographers, she will catch up quickly. Michelle did not have the artistic side until she was 17. Even Michelle won 1995 world with a nice program, I strongly feel the presentation was very junior level.
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- Oct 7, 2004
＞but I feel if she has more time to work with some top choreographers, she will catch up quickly.jesslily said:
I agree with you. I think that Lori Nichol is better than Lea Ann Miller for Ando.
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- Aug 3, 2003
She is good but not that great. She has some ways to go presentation wise and spins.
jesslily said:
Medal count is one way of comparing. I think Tristan was not impress with the way posters are comparing Miki's current presentation skills to MK and Cohen's current presentation skills, that was why Tristan started comparing Miki at 16 to MK and Cohen 16. You can not compare absolute athletic skills across generations, if you are doing that then Mao at 13 can land all the triple jumps better than Dorothy Hamil at 13. It is how they stack up against their peer at the time that count. Mark Spitz olympic record can not even put him at the top at junioir nationals nowadays. I don't think anyone can say, Spitz is less of a swimmer than the current reigning junior national champ?
I paid the due respect for Miki's ability to land the quad as the first lady to land a quad in competition.
"MK did not have the artistic side until she was 17" Unfortunately "artistic" is an entirely subjective, it is for your personal enjoyment, your favorite "artistic" skater maybe someome else bathroom break . Mk at 15, she had enough presentation, athletic skills and mental toughness to win a world gold, in fact she was unbeatable that entirel season. You may think MK's presentation (are you mixing presentation with artistic) at 15 is juniorish, but she had ehough to beat the reigning world champ, at 13 she had enough presentation, athletic skills and mental toughness to win a junior world gold (beating the great Irina) . I strongly felt Cohen's presentation at 15 was very juniorish too, but that did not take away her record of national silver and junior world 6th.
In terms of absolute skills and moving forward, Miki has a few 3/3, can land the qaud, can land 3/3/2, and has strong basic skills. Mk and Cohen have not been presentation much or any 3/3 definitely not a quad. (talking about a quad and landing one are very different) I already said that will carry her a long way. Maybe the skate gods will bless her with an olympic gold in 2006,
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- Jul 31, 2003
gezando said:
IMO maturity is a better word. The 'artistic' was changed to 'presentation' some years ago to make it (sound) less subjective.
MK certainly had the mental toughness to win all along. However, I strongly disagreed with her gold at 1996 worlds, and particularly the two 6.0's for presentation. I do believe she should have won silver behind the reigning champion Chen Lu, whose performance was one for the ages. A silver would have been a great achievement for a 15 year old. At 15 & 16 she had more maturity than Ando and a few others at that age. At 17 she was much more mature than Kristi Yamaguchi at that age. However, skaters mature at different ages, and I see the potential in Miki. She already has the jumps. All she needs is work with a good choreographer to become a complete skater.
Vash
Vash01 said:
I don't mean to start a MK vs Lulu therad, so you disagree with the judges and I agree with the judges. But even if I ignore the judges decision and play along with your assessment, a silver at worlds at the age of 15 is stll a huge accomplisment measuring against her peer at the time. Of course MiKi at 15 was Japanese national champ, no joking beating the 2004 world champ, and she was world junior champ. Cohen at 15 was national silver and junior world 6th.
"maturity" is not one of the marking criteria for judging? I think Cohen's best program was her sp at 15. She looked juniorish to me, but there is a certain amount of freedom in that program that I do not think she has ever captured since then.
But jesslily said it is really not important who won what 5 - 10 years ago, it is the present that is critical. So along that line of thinking who won gold, or silver or bronze at world 2004 is not critical either. I do not expect Michelle to be the favorite going into 2005 olys, (she may not even compete in 06 olys). Paying due respect to Miki, I won't be surprise if Miki Ando beats the favorite to win in 2006.
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- Jul 31, 2003
From all indications MK will compete in the 2006 Olympics and will be one of the favorites, if not THE favorite going in. A lot may depend on the results of worlds 2005, but one can never count Michelle out in any competition. I am actually rooting for her to win the Olympic gold in 2006. I will not be surprised if Miki, Shizuka, or Sasha wins. It is a wide open competition right now.
I do disagree with the 1996 worlds results, regardless of how much I love Michelle's skating (I know this statement is OT).
Vash
I do disagree with the 1996 worlds results, regardless of how much I love Michelle's skating (I know this statement is OT).
Vash
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Whether it is called presentation, artistry, or maturity, it still is in the eyes of the beholder. Like ballerinas on stage, I see top tier figure skaters with more or less the same tricks in their programs. (who does the best lutz? or who does the best lutz that night?) What separates them from each other is the presentation, artistry, maturity, or whatever else you call it. Here the contestants (like the ballerinas on the stage) are very much different.
If your mindset is 19th century ballet moves, or acrobatic moves, or modern dancing moves, and you must see this in figure skating because figure skating for you has to conform to that form of presentation, then you are subjectively agreeing that fs has little to offer as a specialty, imo. Given that, then one must watch the skaters and see which are presenting the artistry of your choice and from them, select whom you think is the 'best'. OK!
For myself, I let the skater move me in any way he/she can and much will depend on how the music is interpreted (not necessarily to a story line) and whether the choreography is suitable for this task. Whether it is The Sleeping Beauty, or Cirque du Soleil, or Gene Kelly in the Rain or a mixture of all three, or better still, something really innovative, depends on the skater reaching me.
The top tier skaters are different, and imo, the more mature ones have something that goes beyond tricks. Enjoy them when they are at their best.
Joe
If your mindset is 19th century ballet moves, or acrobatic moves, or modern dancing moves, and you must see this in figure skating because figure skating for you has to conform to that form of presentation, then you are subjectively agreeing that fs has little to offer as a specialty, imo. Given that, then one must watch the skaters and see which are presenting the artistry of your choice and from them, select whom you think is the 'best'. OK!
For myself, I let the skater move me in any way he/she can and much will depend on how the music is interpreted (not necessarily to a story line) and whether the choreography is suitable for this task. Whether it is The Sleeping Beauty, or Cirque du Soleil, or Gene Kelly in the Rain or a mixture of all three, or better still, something really innovative, depends on the skater reaching me.
The top tier skaters are different, and imo, the more mature ones have something that goes beyond tricks. Enjoy them when they are at their best.
Joe
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- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
I agree, Show. She is at her absolute best just when everyone is counting her out. And, even though that would be somewhat nerve wracking for Kwan fans, I also hope she is an underdog heading into the Games. LOL...I hope things aren't out of whack...she is due to attack this year, what does that mean for 2006?
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- Jul 11, 2003
The favorite going into the Olympics.
What shall we say is the criterion? The PreOly World Champ? The skater who wins the most in GP? The past wins of the skater? The Fans on the forums? Peggy and Dick? the sports writers for the LA Times, NY Times, Canadian newspapes, Brennen, Translations of what the Europeans think?
Joe
What shall we say is the criterion? The PreOly World Champ? The skater who wins the most in GP? The past wins of the skater? The Fans on the forums? Peggy and Dick? the sports writers for the LA Times, NY Times, Canadian newspapes, Brennen, Translations of what the Europeans think?
Joe
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S
SkateFan4Life
Guest
Tristan said:You should worry about the lack of talent in your own country instead of constantly underrating new comers in other countries. Keeping Japanese down do not grant an American skater a gold medal. The world of figure skating is not a battle in Iraq and Americans do not call all the shots, you know? Wake up and doubt your own judgement for a change!
IMHO, this writer needed a major attitude adjustment. Who do you think you are, anyway? You are completely out of touch with reality if you honestly think that Americans (of which I happen to be one) go around bashing skaters from other countries or do everything to "bring them down". Absolute rubbish!! For your information, I have a great amount of respect for the skaters of EVERY country, not just those who happen to represent the Stars and Stripes. Some of my all-time favorite skaters are Midori Ito, Katarina Witt, Elvis Stojko, Kurt Browning, Victor Petrenko, Oksana Baiul, Alexi Yagudin, Ilia Kulik, Gordeeva and Grinkov, Bourne and Kraatz, Shizuki Arakawa, Robin Cousins, etc., etc.
The list goes on and on. None of these skaters represented the US, and that certainly never bothered me. I was delighted at their achievements, all of which were well deserved. Get the picture?
Joe, and other moderators on this message board. I strongly recommend that Tristan be banned from this board. We do not need this type of negative, rude, and inflammatory writing.
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- Aug 7, 2003
Actually if I"m not mistaken Sasha finished 4th at her first Worlds as well....and IMO it doesn't matter where you finish at your first Worlds. Out of Sarah, Sasha, and Michelle, Michelle is the only one to win a World title, and she finished 8th at her first Worlds, lower than either Sarah or Sasha did at thier first Worlds.
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