New Judging System-The Good Side

[skatergirl45]

Okay, so there is always banter about the IJS and how we need to improve it yadda yadda yadda. But, lets look and see how IJS has helped figure skating.
1. More complex spins. Before, many skaters did basically camel-sit-back sit. Now, we are seeing different positions.
2. More complex spirals. Again, positions that people did not do in the past but are doing now.
3. More developed footwork, with skaters doing lots of complicated turns.

Edge calls(finally...) and under rotation calls.

So, is you look at it this way the IJS has furthered figure skating. Skaters are doing more complex moves and bad jumps are being called.

While the PCS may not be the way we like them, they do emphasize that figure skating is a sport, not an artistic cheesfest...........

Also, a skater who can skate beautifully in this system is a better skater than a skater who can skate beautifully in the old system because of the requirements.

 

[Mathman]

In my opinion the missing piece of the puzzle is how to bring the audience into the game. Skating insiders cheer at how complicated spirals and spins have become. But fans enjoyed a nice camel-sit-back sit just fine.

To me, the danger is that figure skating will become so wonderful and marvelous (in its own opinion of itself) that no one will watch it at all.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I like the NJS because it has given skaters like Jeff Buttle, Kozuka and P. Chan the credit that they deserve. If we were still under 6.0 I think the quad would still be king. I also like the attention on footwork. Most sequences were a few running steps across the ice which were pretty simple and comprised about 10 seconds...i love a long dramatic, difficult sequence when done well. I will not agree about the spirals until CoP stats rewarding for flexibility and grace of position, not how long you held it.

 

[abaka]

The problem is that to achieve psychological (topological?) compatibility with the old system, a score of +infinity must be possible. Until the skaters figure out a way to do that, or all the grumpy old fans die off, there will be arguments.

I'm perfectly prepared to accept the new system is superior, as long what I enjoy most about figure skating are compulsory (though not special) figures.

But really the discussion should be about the skating. Or at worst the judging. Surely not about the scoring!!

 

[visaliakid]

The new scoring system is here to stay... but there needs to be a reworking in some areas...

Some of the spins and spirals being attempted (for difficulty sake) are the ugliest the sport has seen.(Injuries are occuring from them as much as from the attempted multiple jumps.)

Callers need to be reigned in on their overboard nitpicking of underrotations when the naked eye (at visual sighting) sees a good landing. Since some elements don't get the use of slow motion, I would like to see no slowmotion for any jump landings. If it is that close to 90 degrees with the naked eye... the benefit of the doubt should always go to the skater.

Secret Judging must end!

Use of Arena Video system to show what deductions and calls are given for each performance for the benefit of the audience and Television coverage. (This should be mandated by ISU).

Those are only a few thoughts I have on this subject.

 

[Buttercup]

I like not having stroke-jump-stroke-jump programs. I like that skaters can make a comeback in the LP based on the merit of their skating rather than on mistakes by others. I like that skaters can identify areas they need to work on and that good technique is rewarded.

Unlike others here, I don't like what's happened to the footwork. It's now more intricate but often slower and not as appealing to me as a viewer. I prefer to see a bit more two-footed skating that's fast and fun over mostly harder but unattractive stuff. What I see now are skaters who seem to be interacting with their edges and not with the audience.

I think Mathman is spot-on in noting the audience has to be part of what's happening. I'm afraid skating is turning itself into a connoisseur's sport rather than something approachable and inviting, and it's losing its mass appeal as a result.

And yes, secret judging must go.

 

[Jaana]

Use of Arena Video system to show what deductions and calls are given for each performance for the benefit of the audience and Television coverage. (This should be mandated by ISU).

That is a good idea, especially for jumping, in my opinion. It will help the audience to understand why a faultless looking performance does not deserve to win over a perhaps little bit faulty one.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

The new scoring system is here to stay... but there needs to be a reworking in some areas...

Some of the spins and spirals being attempted (for difficulty sake) are the ugliest the sport has seen.(Injuries are occuring from them as much as from the attempted multiple jumps.)

Callers need to be reigned in on their overboard nitpicking of underrotations when the naked eye (at visual sighting) sees a good landing. Since some elements don't get the use of slow motion, I would like to see no slowmotion for any jump landings. If it is that close to 90 degrees with the naked eye... the benefit of the doubt should always go to the skater.

Secret Judging must end!

Use of Arena Video system to show what deductions and calls are given for each performance for the benefit of the audience and Television coverage. (This should be mandated by ISU).

Those are only a few thoughts I have on this subject.

Good thinking. The public should know more about how this new judging system works, and, for example, why Falls have less deductions than under rotated jumps. Let's face it, the public is watching something they do not understand so why should they be interested in watching figure skating?

 

[gio]

I will not agree about the spirals until CoP stats rewarding for flexibility and grace of position, not how long you held it.

Hmm, the thing that most matters in a spiral is edge, not flexibility (if you mean by flexibility the various positions achieved by skaters)!! A long standard spiral with deep edge is a ++ for me!!! A long spiral with flexibility variation is a +++!!
But I dislike flexibility spirals on flat or not deep edge or with bad edge stability. Those are not good spirals.

 

[Dodhiyel]

To me, the danger is that figure skating will become so wonderful and marvelous (in its own opinion of itself) that no one will watch it at all.

:agree: and for how succinctly you have put it.

 

[Ladskater]

I think my biggest grudge with the new judging system is that the excitement of seeing a string of 6.0s or even 5.9s (almost perfect mark) is gone. Though the marking was still somewhat complicated, the average fan "got it" when a 6.0 appeared on the board. It was like winning the Oscar for a an actor or actress - when his/her name is announced. I think with all the "hidden" marks and deductions - although the score is shown - it's really not the same kind of feeling for the skaters and it is certainly lost on the fans. There was some kind of honour achieved when a skater received the "perfect" 6.0 mark.


:yes:

 

[Tinymavy15]

Hmm, the thing that most matters in a spiral is edge, not flexibility (if you mean by flexibility the various positions achieved by skaters)!! A long standard spiral with deep edge is a ++ for me!!! A long spiral with flexibility variation is a +++!!
But I dislike flexibility spirals on flat or not deep edge or with bad edge stability. Those are not good spirals.

Agreed! but when I see skaters with bad edge control who attempt to contort themselves into positions thy do not have the flexibility to attain who gets an Level 4....makes me want to puke.

 

[gio]

Agreed! but when I see skaters with bad edge control who attempt to contort themselves into positions thy do not have the flexibility to attain who gets an Level 4....makes me want to puke.

ITA with you!

 

[Bennett]

I like spirals and spins better now than before. Whenever I see competitions under 6.0, I am surprised by the shortness of spins and spirals. In particular, Lu Chen had really short spins, which I had noticed even at that time. I also have an impression that spirals tended to have less stretch (regardless of flexibility) possibly because they did not need to hold the positions long enough to require a lot of stretch. Such spirals and spins look unfinished.
ETA: Actually, I can't generalize the case of spins. Many of them had held positions very long, especially when they just did layback etc. But when they did combination spins, I feel that many of them did not hold each position long enough.

 

[Spun Silver]

Spins and spirals improved? We have all these utterly identical spiral sequences, turning a magical moment into a public workshop. And all these slow lumpy spins in weird positions where the skaters hold on for dear life to get that extra rotation or two (or is it that they are doing a fantastically difficult spin at the only speed they can?). You see that even in the best skaters. Sometimes you get a great, varied, fast spin but the slow lumpy type is uglifying a lot of programs.

 

[mycelticblessing]

Funny how this thread is sounding abit like a New Judging system bashing thread. Back to the topic. The New Judging system rewards skaters who really pay attention to the nitty-griity details (eg. footwork, rotations, spirals, etc.).

The best part of it, for me that is, is that the requirements have really made the Men and Dance discipline more exciting (well, for me at least). I never 'got' Ice Dance in the past, but I love it now. I especially love twizzles, and I love seeing complex lifts.

 

[gkelly]

Maybe we need a companion thread about New Judging System-The Bad Side to take the complaints to.

Or a discussion thread comparing the good and bad sides of both the old and new systems.

Personally I'm very interested in comparing and analyzing both pros and cons. Cheerleading and bashing threads don't interest me so much.

 

[Buttercup]

Personally, I prefer to discuss both the good and the bad in one thread. Granted there have been some CoP bashing threads in the past, and I get that this one was intended to counter that - but to me a discussion of the pros and cons is more interesting.

I don't think it's the judging system that has made men's skating more exciting; I think it's the parity and the variety of styles and approaches among the guys. Had it been the system, we would have seen a similar trend in the ladies, which is the most similar discipline. And we're not.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Personally, I prefer to discuss both the good and the bad in one thread. Granted there have been some CoP bashing threads in the past, and I get that this one was intended to counter that - but to me a discussion of the pros and cons is more interesting.

I don't think it's the judging system that has made men's skating more exciting; I think it's the parity and the variety of styles and approaches among the guys. Had it been the system, we would have seen a similar trend in the ladies, which is the most similar discipline. And we're not.

ITA. Compare the pros and cons of judging the Cop with the 6.0 system.

I do not think the CoP is a bad system. I do think it should be bashed for realizing some of its strange dictums. It needs a lot of work and when that is taken care of, voila, a real honest judging system.

I do think CoP made the Men's Division more exciting because of its emphasis on the Sport and not the Presentation. The PC scores however took care of presentation and relieved the minds of the men, which unbeknownst to them, imo, improved their presentation. Also, the vast majority of men are able to go down and do a proper sit spin which before was a why bother. It also brought out more fluidity in Men's skating to which I do not know why. Let's just accept it and enjoy it.

 

[gio]

I don't think it's the judging system that has made men's skating more exciting; I think it's the parity and the variety of styles and approaches among the guys. Had it been the system, we would have seen a similar trend in the ladies, which is the most similar discipline. And we're not.

ITA!! :agree: Good point!

I think Ladies is exactly the opposite, unfortunately. But I agree, in this case I think we cannot blame the judging system.