Plushenko:" Kovtun is a good average skater "

[Interspectator]

That's great! I think he'd be a great technical adviser...but I don't know what kind of coach he'd be. -I guess no one does.
He could make a second fortune if he could teach his jumping technique to other skaters. -And of course, everyone would love to keep seeing him in shows.

Kovtun, like all the other up and coming skaters, just needs time to show what he's made of. It's very rare to see someone like Yuzu, or Plushenko, who shows such promise at a very young age and continues to win consistently. There are those who show promise early and fizzle out, there are those, like Machida who no one thinks is going anywhere and then suddenly hit their stride and blossom. We shall see.

 

[bartlebooth]

2) The extension of the Russian infight between Tat and Mishin

THIS.
Yes, Plushenko is frank and forward and he speaks his mind, but I think that he does it "from Mishin's camp" like many others do "from Tarasova's camp". I'm not saying he's being used, only that his bashing/praising of other skaters tend to serve his (and Mishin's) purpose. It's a common strategy in figure skating: look at Carroll's comments on Lipnitskaya and Asada compared to Gold. Plushenko himself has taken a good share of bashing throughout the years, more so for his last comeback.
That said, eternal comparison to Plushenko is not going to do Russian male skaters any good: after Plushenko there were no more Russian World medalists except for Gachinski, who then struggled. "Average" skaters who can medal at Europeans and place top five at Worlds, like Voronov, Menshov and Kovtun did in 2014 constitute already an improvement.

 

[plushyfan]

I would also like to ask how many of those attacking Plushenko's inclusion on the Olympic team justified Takahashi's?

Yes, plus Takahashi was injured before Sochi, in Sochi and after Sochi. He didn't say the Japanes Fed. sends Oda or Kozuka instead of him. And no one attacked him...hmmmm...

Poor Plushy.. i think this is the curse of greatness

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

oh please, Kovtun placed 5th Euros , Kovtun has bene given plenty of opportunities
and had he been send to Sochi, he would have bombed and would have cost also the Team gold for Russia

eta: posted by volk again the Plushenko hater

He also placed 4th at Worlds. How is that "average"? It's certainly better than up and coming skaters in men's... and certain skaters other disciplines who were anticipated to medal but failed to.

Seriously, is Plushenko just trying to be a jerk? I honestly can't comprehend how you defend somebody who says such disparaging comments, especially about a fellow skater who is arguably the best skater Russia has at this point. Obviously the remarks, even if true are still insulting.

As unclassy as it would be to retort back, I wish Kovtun would just lay this jerk out to dry:

"An average skater is one who quits in front of a home crowd. An average skater is one who has to do a test skate instead of winning Nationals in order to compete in Sochi. An average skater is one who can only land a 4T and not a 4S as well. An average skater is one who doesn't even attempt at least 2 quads in one freeskate. An average skater is one who, even if he goes clean, loses to a skater who doesn't even attempt quads."

 

[plushyfan]

Hi CSG!

 

[karne]

He also placed 4th at Worlds. How is that "average"? It's certainly better than up and coming skaters in men's... and certain skaters other disciplines who were anticipated to medal but failed to.

Gachinski was 3rd at his first Worlds, a full year younger than Kovtun is now, and when he was Kovtun's current age he was also a Euro medallist and a multiple Russian Nat medallist.

An average skater is one who has to do a test skate instead of winning Nationals in order to compete in Sochi.

You'd advocate that to come from a skater who was put on a Euro then a Worlds team for NO OTHER REASON than Tarasova being his coach? I mean yeesh, at least Plushenko has a competitive record, which Kovtun didn't when that fine little bit of politiking took place...

An average skater is one who doesn't even have the guts to attempt 2 quads in one freeskate."

Oh that's cute. Especially when you consider that Plushenko wasn't just doing two-quad free skates at 18; he was doing 4-3-2 and 4-3-3 combos.

 

[sky_fly20]

As unclassy as it would be, I wish Kovtun would just fire back "An average skater is one who quits in front of a home crowd. An average skater is one who has to do a test skate instead of winning Nationals in order to compete in Sochi. An average skater is one who attempts just a quad toe instead of a quad salchow as well. An average skater is one who doesn't even have the guts to attempt 2 quads in one freeskate. An average skater loses to a skater who doesn't even attempt quads."

and an average skater will surpass what a 31 year old far from his glory days can achieve right
let alone landing 2 quads despite having screws on the back, oh wait what happened at Euros

and lol at 16-18 Plushenko was already a quad jumping machine with 4-3-3 far advanced in his time
at 31 he is still jumping quads cant say the same for Kovtun's hunchback quads

 

[volk]

Gachinski was 3rd at his first Worlds

.

So anyone finishing lower than 3rd at the Worlds qualifies as average skater?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

and an average skater will surpass what a 31 year old far from his glory days can achieve right
let alone landing 2 quads despite having screws on the back, oh wait what happened at Euros

You mean the second-most recent Euros where Plushenko fell on his axel and messed up his lutz and pulled out? Or the most recent Euros where Plushenko avoided competing altogether because he wanted to avoid potentially losing again? You'd have to specify which one.

Plushenko is full of himself. Just because he has accolades and is well-respected in Russia doesn't give him the right to make disparaging comments. No skater has the right to fling muck at their competitors. It isn't okay when Plushenko does it, Joubert, Chan, etc.

Put the "class" in world-class athlete.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

So anyone finishing lower than 3rd at the Worlds qualifies as average skater?

I know right. So I guess if you agree with Plu's comments sky_fly, that makes Gracie even below average for placing 5th, eh?

 

[karne]

Put the "class" in world-class athlete.

Says the person outright accusing Plushenko of faking a snapped screw.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Says the person outright accusing Plushenko of faking a snapped screw.

Please point to the post where I said he faked a snapped screw.

Go on, I dare you.

 

[Buttercup]

He also placed 4th at Worlds. How is that "average"? It's certainly better than up and coming skaters in men's... and certain skaters other disciplines who were anticipated to medal but failed to.
...
Seriously, is Plushenko just trying to be a jerk? I honestly can't comprehend how you defend somebody who says such disparaging comments, especially about a fellow skater who is arguably the best skater Russia has at this point. Obviously the remarks, even if true are still insulting.

Well, Kovtun is the only top Russian who hasn't yet medalled at an ISU championship and is the second Russian man on the season best list (he'd be third if they counted the Olympic team event). He is the top Russian in the ISU rankings, but Menshov isn't far behind, even though he gets little political support and few ISU Championship assignments. Even when he does well at Nationals.

I don't see how Kovtun is in a position to criticize anyone's scores or assignments, considering his own track record.

 

[sky_fly20]

Says the person outright accusing Plushenko of faking a snapped screw.

:thumbsup:

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Well, Kovtun is the only top Russian who hasn't yet medalled at an ISU championship and is the second Russian man on the season best list (he'd be third if they counted the Olympic team event). He is the top Russian in the ISU rankings, but Menshov isn't far behind, even though he gets little political support and few ISU Championship assignments. Even when he does well at Nationals.

I don't see how Kovtun is in a position to criticize anyone's scores or assignments, considering his own track record.

I've said that it would be wrong for Kovtun to criticize skaters' scores/assignments/results too. All skaters should abstain from making comments like that. Or at least if you provide it, make constructive criticism instead of just calling somebody average. I mean, if Plushenko loses to a guy with no quads, what does that say about how "average" the rest of his skating is that even clean, harder jumps can't get him the victory?

But since Plushenko is a more accomplished skater apparently that gives him a free pass to be a jerk?

 

[sky_fly20]

It would be wrong for Kovtun to criticize skaters' scores/assignments/results too.

But since Plushenko is a more accomplished skater apparently that gives him a free pass to be a jerk?

because Kovtun is a headcase btw
he could have won Euros but he didnt, could have medaled at Worlds but didnt

 

[plushyfan]

You mean the second-most recent Euros where Plushenko fell on his axel and messed up his lutz and pulled out? Or the most recent Euros where Plushenko avoided competing altogether because he wanted to avoid potentially losing again? You'd have to specify which one.

Plushenko is full of himself. Just because he has accolades and is well-respected in Russia doesn't give him the right to make disparaging comments. No skater has the right to fling muck at their competitors. It isn't okay when Plushenko does it, Joubert, Chan, etc.

Put the "class" in world-class athlete.

You are funny. He never did with Joubert. He always praised him especially in the last years. Joubert was invited Plushy's shows not once. And Joubert said not so long ago he wants to perform on Plushy's next shows. They are in a very good relatonship.
Chan was the first who attacked Plushy before Vancouver. And Chan was nothing in that time....I can show you many articles where Plushy praises Chan as an incredible good skater..

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

because Kovtun is a headcase btw
he could have won Euros but he didnt, could have medaled at Worlds but didnt

Gracie could have won both of her Grand Prix events but she didn't. She could have medalled at Worlds, but she didn't.

Do you think she's a headcase?

 

[Buttercup]

You mean the second-most recent Euros where Plushenko fell on his axel and messed up his lutz and pulled out?

And underwent spinal surgery less than a month later? That one?

Plushenko's medical condition being what it was, it was wise of the Russian federation to keep him out of the Europeans (where two Russians medalled anyway) and preserve his health for the more important Olympics - and it paid off with a team gold.

BTW, I don't recall Patrick Chan doing his continental championship this season. Is that an issue for you?

You are funny. He never did with Joubert. He always praised him especially in the last years. Joubert was invited Plushy's shows not once. And Joubert said not so long ago he wants to perform on Plushy's next shows. They are in a very good relatonship. .

There was some sniping earlier in their careers, but AFAIK they've had a good working relationship since at least the 2009-10 season. IIRC Joubert said something about how Plushenko in real life is much nicer than the public persona he sometimes projects. Normally it's the other way around with famous people

 

[sky_fly20]

Gracie could have won both of her Grand Prix events but she didn't. She could have medalled at Worlds, but she didn't.

Do you think she's a headcase?

stop diverting the conversaion