Sasha Cohen's big gamble

[dorispulaski]

Those were the days, in retrospect, with all 4 ladies (including Michelle) all able to do their parts to secure the spots for the next year.

 

[antmanb]

If memory serves me right, Nicks said she did it on purpose, that she was set on a different combo spin than was planned, and that she went ahead and did it even though he said right before her skate do not do it. I wish I remembered where I saw it, pretty sure it was online somewhere, and as she came off the ice, you could tell Nicks was not happy and let her have it. She was visibly upset. I remember it coming up again in an interview with him as one of his examples how you can't tell Sasha what to do.

Wasn't it a similar story with the 3/3 in SLC? My memory is that Nicks told her to do 3Lz/2T and go clean, Sasha wanted to go for the 3/3.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

^^^Most definitely so! He fired up his PR press and got her media attention by painting the picture his prodigy was deviating from the stereotypical ice princess/American Sweetheart as a way to set her apart. Definitely made for interesting reading!

And she happily stepped into the shoes by running girls over in the warm up at events?

As i've said time and again - Sasha appears to be a very fiesty skater. I always wished she'd skated to something strong, different and definitely not "ice princessy". Even just an SP, so that we could see a a different side (one that i reckon would be closer to her real personality).

Ant

 

[antmanb]

There are no more "eras" or "waiting your turn" in skating. Like it or not, we are under CoP. All that matters to judges are points.

Are you joking? Have you seen how the judges use GOE and PCS to put the skaters where they want?

Ant

 

[Eurofan]

As i've said time and again - Sasha appears to be a very fiesty skater. I always wished she'd skated to something strong, different and definitely not "ice princessy". Even just an SP, so that we could see a a different side (one that i reckon would be closer to her real personality).

Ant

I'd really like to see her skate to something that isn't what my husband used to call "tragic ballerina music." Just for a change.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

That's what I meant

8+3=11

1+8=9

1+3=4

4 < 9 < 11 < 13 so all scenarios would have us 3 spots for '07

RD - In the scheme of things, a GOLD medal (meissner) was enough to allow the USFS to send 3 skters the following year.

It was a very sad competition for Sasha in Calgary with lots of audience considering Sokolova as the bronze medalist. It was Sasha's SP that got her the bronze.

 

[antmanb]

RD - In the scheme of things, a GOLD medal (meissner) was enough to allow the USFS to send 3 skters the following year.

I don't think that is correct. If there are two or more skaters representing one country then the combined total of the top two skaters has to add up to 13 in order to qualify 3 skaters for next year's worlds. Admittedly if you have one skater placing 1st that means the other skater can come in as low as 12th to qualify.

The only way for a skater to qualify three skaters for next year by coming in 1st (and i think 2nd but could be wrong) is if that country has only 1 entry. It is for this reason that italy chose to name no substitutes to it's ladies team at worlds. Valentina Marchei is injured so Kostner will be their only entry - her coming top 10 (pretty much a given) qualifies them 2 skaters for the Olympics and if she pulls off a gold or silver they get 3.

Ant

 

[Particle Man]

Are you joking? Have you seen how the judges use GOE and PCS to put the skaters where they want?

Uh... no? How about rarely? The majority of wuzrobbed moments were caused by idiotically inflated deductions for edge and rotation. I'm sure some were caused by deliberate number fudging, but good luck trying to prove it. People whining on the forums isn't proof... it's just a given, under any system.

 

[chuckm]

Uh... no? How about rarely? The majority of wuzrobbed moments were caused by idiotically inflated deductions for edge and rotation. I'm sure some were caused by deliberate number fudging, but good luck trying to prove it. People whining on the forums isn't proof... it's just a given, under any system.

If you took a really close look at the protocols you would see how the numbers game is played. Judge A likes skater A and gives that skater HUGE PCS scores and lots of +GOE, while giving skater B, A's closest rival, MUCH lower PCS scores and lots of 0 and -GOE. Judge B does the same, while judge C does the opposite, and gives Skater B HUGE PCS scores and lots of +GOE, while giving the low PCS scores and -GOE to Skater A.

Look at the JGP protocols,and you will be able to identify the judges and the countries which they represent.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If you took a really close look at the protocols you would see how the numbers game is played. Judge A likes skater A and gives that skater HUGE PCS scores and lots of +GOE, while giving skater B, A's closest rival, MUCH lower PCS scores and lots of 0 and -GOE. Judge B does the same, while judge C does the opposite, and gives Skater B HUGE PCS scores and lots of +GOE, while giving the low PCS scores and -GOE to Skater A.

Look at the JGP protocols,and you will be able to identify the judges and the countries which they represent.

that easy to discern but what about the names of these judges and their ethnic backgrounds?

Now, now, I'm not talking conspiracy but would like those evil thoughts to be covered.

 

[camion]

Just to refresh my memory-they do drop the highest and lowest number from the average right?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Just to refresh my memory-they do drop the highest and lowest number from the average right?

Not sure, myself. Have read somewhere in this time of austerity instead of using 11judges and droping high and low, they also reduced the number to an outright 7. Hope someone can give exact number of judges the competitions will be using.

If it is just 7, then conspiracies can happen again. Those judges know each other and can easily influence one if cheating is a purpose.

 

[chuckm]

There are only 9 judges on ISU Championship panels now (there used to be 12). Random selection is applied, dropping two scores, and then the highest and lowest scores are dropped. So in the end, only 5 of the 9 judges decide who the winner will be.

Here are the WORLDS panels by country:

MEN
SP: AUS AUT BUL CHN MEX POL ROU ESP SWE
FS: BEL CZE GER ISR plus 5 judges drawn from the SP judges

LADIES
SP: AUS TPE FRA HUN ITA LTU MEX ESP SUI
FS: POL SVK UKR UZB plus 5 judges drawn from the SP judges

PAIRS
SP: CHN GER GRE ITA POL RUS UKR USA UZB
FS: CAN FRA GBR ISR plus 5 judges drawn from the SP judges

ICE DANCE
CD: AUT CAN CZE EST FRA HUN ISR POL RUS
OD: AUS BUL GER JPN plus 5 judges drawn from the CD judges
FD: AUS BUL GER JPN plus 5 judges drawn from the CD judges

 

[Medusa]

Those Worlds panels don't look too bad.

The Men's panel looks very fair, I doubt that there is any room for conspiracy theories with those two panels. Looks good.

The Ladies' panel looks good for the SP, if a Russian / Eastern European Lady with a chance to be on the podium was around - I would be a bit worried about the LP because suddenly you get POL SVK UKR UZB. But there is only Leonova and that girl doesn't have a chance for a podium placement, it might elevate her into the Top Ten though.

Dance looks good too. CZE, EST, HUN, POL, ROU and BUL are so different countries these days, all of them in the European Union - and the Russians aren't even on the panel. I am somehow happy that the Russians aren't on the panel and that the Canadians are: it makes me less afraid of "Virtue / Moir got robbed" in the case of a Khokhlova / Novitsky win. Didn't Tarasova say that Domnina / Shabalin only skate if their Russian judge is on the panel? Hmm, a withdrawel wouldn't be a loss at all IMO.

Pairs is a bit weird though. In the other panels you only have one or two judges with a top favourite in the competition: in Dance there is a Canadian judge, for the Ladies you get the Italian judge. But in Pairs they somehow got a judge from every country with a top favourite: China, Germany, (Ukraine), (Russia), USA and Canada. How did that happen?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There are only 9 judges on ISU Championship panels now (there used to be 12). Random selection is applied, dropping two scores, and then the highest and lowest scores are dropped. So in the end, only 5 of the 9 judges decide who the winner will be.

Here are the WORLDS panels by country:

MEN
SP: AUS AUT BUL CHN MEX POL ROU ESP SWE
FS: BEL CZE GER ISR plus 5 judges drawn from the SP judges

LADIES
SP: AUS TPE FRA HUN ITA LTU MEX ESP SUI
FS: POL SVK UKR UZB plus 5 judges drawn from the SP judges

PAIRS
SP: CHN GER GRE ITA POL RUS UKR USA UZB
FS: CAN FRA GBR ISR plus 5 judges drawn from the SP judges

ICE DANCE
CD: AUT CAN CZE EST FRA HUN ISR POL ROU
OD: AUS BUL GER JPN plus 5 judges drawn from the CD judges
FD: AUS BUL GER JPN plus 5 judges drawn from the CD judges

Thank you Chuckum. WoW!! I was thinking of 7 but only 5. It may be in the interest of fairness. Hope so. I'll bring this infor to LA with me and check on delivery.

It seems none of the 6 top Countries are judging the Mens. This is nice for V.D.Perren and T.Verna.

Only France is a top country for the Ladies. However, there are 4 Slavic countries in the LP which could give a little boost to Leonova for a top 10 finish. (not calling any conspiracy. Just a sentimental boost from the heart.)

Pairs are the battle fields for judging. China, Russia, USA as well as Germany all with podium seeking Pairs entrants in the SP. The LP covers Canada and France. Keep it clean, guys

Ice Dance. Very limited in top countries which may not even make all three sectors.

 

[chuckm]

Those Worlds panels don't look too bad.

Dance looks good too. CZE, EST, HUN, POL, ROU and BUL are so different countries these days, all of them in the European Union - and the Russians aren't even on the panel. I am somehow happy that the Russians aren't on the panel and that the Canadians are: it makes me less afraid of "Virtue / Moir got robbed" in the case of a Khokhlova / Novitsky win. Didn't Tarasova say that Domnina / Shabalin only skate if their Russian judge is on the panel? Hmm, a withdrawel wouldn't be a loss at all IMO.

There IS a Russian judge on the panel, not a Roumanian judge (my mistake). But RUS is only on the CD for sure. There's no guarantee he/she will draw in to the OD and/or FD panels. Does that mean DomShabs would WD if there was no RUS on the OD or FD panel? Seems to me Tarasova is saying outright that the RUS judge will judge based only on country of origin, not on performance. In that case, I would hope there would be no RUS judge on the OD and FD.

Pairs is a bit weird though. In the other panels you only have one or two judges with a top favourite in the competition: in Dance there is a Canadian judge, for the Ladies you get the Italian judge. But in Pairs they somehow got a judge from every country with a top favourite: China, Germany, (Ukraine), (Russia), USA and Canada. How did that happen?

What is REALLY weird is that the competition is in the US, and there is only one US judge on 4 panels---in Pairs, and guaranteed only for the SP.

 

[skatingbc]

Thank you Chuckum. WoW!! I was thinking of 7 but only 5. It may be in the interest of fairness. Hope so. I'll bring this infor to LA with me and check on delivery.

It seems none of the 6 top Countries are judging the Mens. This is nice for V.D.Perren and T.Verna.

Only France is a top country for the Ladies. However, there are 4 Slavic countries in the LP which could give a little boost to Leonova for a top 10 finish. (not calling any conspiracy. Just a sentimental boost from the heart.)

Pairs are the battle fields for judging. China, Russia, USA as well as Germany all with podium seeking Pairs entrants in the SP. The LP covers Canada and France. Keep it clean, guys

Ice Dance. Very limited in top countries which may not even make all three sectors.

Um...I would say that Italy and Switzerland are stronger in ladies than France!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There IS a Russian judge on the panel, not a Roumanian judge (my mistake). But RUS is only on the CD for sure. There's no guarantee he/she will draw in to the OD and/or FD panels. Does that mean DomShabs would WD if there was no RUS on the OD or FD panel? Seems to me Tarasova is saying outright that the RUS judge will judge based only on country of origin, not on performance. In that case, I would hope there would be no RUS judge on the OD and FD.

Didn't Tarasova once say that there is only one place that is important, and that is First Place? It was a repeat what her father (great hockey player) told her.

Other than that I think all the judges judge primarly for their native origins. Sometimes with a boost into the top ten or preventing a team from garnering 13 points. However,there is always a possiblity of a secret conspiracy going on - which I doubt.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

OOOH, I forgot but after reading about Rachael's attempts at a 3A in practice, I couldn't help but think about the fact, that if she attempts one in LA, and lands one one without discernable faults, how will the Tech Panel react?

Chuckum - Do you have any news of the Tech Panelists in all the Divisions?, and who will be the Lead Caller, in each?

 

[MKFSfan]

What did I miss??? Since when is Rachel seriously training the 3a to put in a program??? I thought she was practicing on the side, just because.