Should male pair skaters also control their weight? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Should male pair skaters also control their weight?

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
First, I would categorize Hao Zhang as more "built" than "overweight". Tho that's not necessarily a good thing either. David Pelletier at one point bulked up a fair amount but found he wasn't skating as well, tho he did allow that he "looked good at the beach" :laugh:

Secondly, I'm not necessarily sure that with the men, extra weight would be as much of a jumping issue as a speed issue. When women gain weight, it tends to be in the hip & butt area, which can definitely throw the jumps off (Tonya Harding being a prime example of this); men usually gain it in the gut which I'm not sure throws the jumps off as much. But from a speed perspective -- it seems to me that if you've got some oversized lug out there skating with a lady who weighs about as much as a box of Kleenex (Qing Pang??), he's going to be hard-pressed to keep up. And who wants to be lifted by a dude who's gasping for breath about 3:15 into the long program?

Thirdly, there's also an aesthetic aspect. Lloyd Eisler, a pretty big guy, was usually around 5-11, 180 at peak competition shape. He said that he could actually carry 200 pretty well and not have it effect his skating, but he said that the "look" of him and Isabelle Brasseur on the ice when he weighed that much just didn't have the same effect as when he was 20 pounds lighter; as a unit, they just looked better that way.

Regarding the "Chinese diet" (or lack thereof): Well, by several accounts, the Chinese team is not exactly being taken out to Old Country Buffet every night; they seem to be underfed in general, so I'm sure Zhao is used to getting by on less food than is probably safe. Which doesn't make it a good idea in the long run; this kind of thing can throw off your metabolism big time when you stop becoming as active, so about 15, 20 years after his career is over he might actually end up getting fairly fat.
 
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antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Not all weight loss is good though for elite male skaters.

Remember at the start of the 2002 season, i think it was at the goodwill games where Yags turned up some 15lbs lighter and was all over the show. I believe he felt slimming would make his jumps easier and he was almost obsessively dieting. TT put an end to it and made him put the weight back on and he got back on track.

The athletes at this level don't have much fat to lose so losing weight often involves the loss of muscle more than body fat. Losing muscle is what caused Yags jumps to become shakey so its really a very fine line.

Male pairs skaters are often beefier than single because they have to have th estrength for lifts and throws. rememebr Atur Dmietriev, and have you seen David Pelletier recently? He really has a huge upper body (and Jamie is not very big!) the singles skaters could never get away with building their upper bodies so much and still landing the high end triples and quads. Interestingly Jamie and David no longer do SBS triple jumps.

Just for the record i disagree with the ladies in paris being forced to lose weight and frankly think that if they are of a reasonable athletic weight then they need bigger partners who are capaable of doing the stuff too rather than slimming a girl down to an unnatural weight.

If a guy the size of Artur Dmietirev could do the triples then so shoudl others his size...saying that both of his partners were very very tiny.

Ant
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
No, they need both lift and stand on their own feet. LOL.

There's an interesting diary written by Zhao. He mentioned one day he felt a bit dizzy and it's probably because he'd been cutting back on food too much! They even provided a one-day dietary menu. If my memory services me correct, it reads like this.

Breakfast: Coffee, a small piece of bread.
Training
Lunch: Nothing
Training
Dinner: Eggs/Vegetables.

That is just plain stupid if you are an athlete...if that is true then they are seriously getting some duff advice from their coaches/nutritionists. Athletes training like they do need to eat far more than that just to break even, you'd only have ot let up a bit to lose weight. No protein and no carbs when you're training 30 hours a week is a recipe for badness.

Ant
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Now I really think you're off your rocker. Conventional wisdom? No lasting side effect? You must not have any knowledge of nutrition, or of the human body. When a person drastically lowers their caloric intake, the body responds by slowing metabolism to conserve energy. When the dieter begins eating "normal" portions again they often find themselves gaining excessive amounts of weight because their metabolism is screwed up. There is also the issue of not getting proper nutrients. The body can't recover properly from injuries/illness, bones weaken and are easily fractured. Just because their "team doctors" are telling them that it is okay (sorry excuses for doctors they must be), does not mean that it really is.

If this was their diet at the start of last season it might explain Hongbo's injury a little better.

Ant
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I think it essential that Male Pairs skaters have a personal trainer to work out the muscles which is a more important question than weight control. I think working out the muscles will take care of unnecessary weight gain. You have to realize that muscles have more weight than fat so gaining weight is not a bad thing if it is because of muscle.

BTW - I've never seen a fat male pairs skater.

Joe
 

enlight78

Medalist
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
It is considered dangerously unhealthy for one's body mass index to fall below 17.5. If Shen reach her goal, her body index will be 16.2. Shen&Zhao look like they're doing well with their game plan,so I'm not going to hate on it anymore. I am just amazed that they can do it. I get massive migrains if I go more than a few hours without eating.
 

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Not all weight loss is good though for elite male skaters.

Remember at the start of the 2002 season, i think it was at the goodwill games where Yags turned up some 15lbs lighter and was all over the show. I believe he felt slimming would make his jumps easier and he was almost obsessively dieting. TT put an end to it and made him put the weight back on and he got back on track.

The athletes at this level don't have much fat to lose so losing weight often involves the loss of muscle more than body fat. Losing muscle is what caused Yags jumps to become shakey so its really a very fine line.


Ant


Very similar to the STUPID tangent Michael Weiss went on, I can't remember what season it was, where he got into his head to lose 15 pounds because he thought it would improve his body line and, IIRC, give him more of the bodyline of Brian Boitano. Michael, as we remember, was PRETTY DANG BUFF. Not only did he not look nearly as good after the weight loss (granted, this would be a matter of opinion) but it CERTAINLY did not help his skating, either, which I believe was starting to have enough problems at that point as it was.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Yags was scary thin at the start of his olympic season... and was still trim far more so than he is now or was before, in SLC...

the goodwill games... he looked very scary... and that was before he landed head first into the boards
 

iloveaxel

Match Penalty
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
I think it essential that Male Pairs skaters have a personal trainer to work out the muscles which is a more important question than weight control. I think working out the muscles will take care of unnecessary weight gain. You have to realize that muscles have more weight than fat so gaining weight is not a bad thing if it is because of muscle.

BTW - I've never seen a fat male pairs skater.

Joe


You've never seen a 'fat' male pairs skater?? Are you serious? Without mentioning specific names, I suggest you go to youtube and search the names(which i mentioned) of the 3-4 make pair skaters' videos over the past 5 years. You will find stunning changes in their body built.

It not only has an effect on their sbs jumps but also the flexbility, speed. Hong Bo Zhao is maintaining a very fit body even in his 33yo, that's why you see he can still do those stretched spiral sequence. When you watch the other male pair skaters' spiral sequence, you will see the big difference largely caused by weight.

He is not the thin type such as some single male sakters., he do lift a lot of weight...

I really want to provide some youtube link for this discussion, but think it's not appropriate.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
well I can only speak on the two nationals events I've attended in teh last two years... but I've been standing really close to a certain US pairs skater mentioned in this thread, and he is by no means 'fat'

I don't think you can be trully 'fat' much less 'obese' and be a top name figure skater ... or any athlese for that matter (save for Sumo Wrestlers)
 

iloveaxel

Match Penalty
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
well I can only speak on the two nationals events I've attended in teh last two years... but I've been standing really close to a certain US pairs skater mentioned in this thread, and he is by no means 'fat'

I don't think you can be trully 'fat' much less 'obese' and be a top name figure skater ... or any athlese for that matter (save for Sumo Wrestlers)

I was not referring to the U.S. pair skater. Try to search the other two names on youtube and see what their bodies looked like back in 2000/2001/2002.

I don't think they gained 'muscle' since... If you have extra pounds as obvious as that, I can hardly blame them for not landing clean jumps and doing awkward spirals.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
putting on weight does not mean they're 'fat' as you get older you're going to get thicker, no matter what you do lol (Save for starving yourself which I will never be convinced is a good thing, no matter whose country's doctors say it is)
 

dancindiva03

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Anyway, I don't want to debatethese nuances. The truth is they are healthy and in-shape persons. The medical advice you prescribed, is frankly, quite old.

Back to my topic, those 'overweight' male skaters need to slim down if they really want to land some clean jumps.

Quite old? What do you know? Obviously not much at all. When, if ever, did YOU take classes in nutrition? I am actually working to become a nutritionist and I can tell you, my medical advice is far from old or out-dated.
 

Wolfgang

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
That diet is ridiculous.
He does that for more than a day, he won't be able to lift his own head off the pillow, much less a girl into the air on ice, regardless of how little she weighs.
Sounds like typical Chinese propaganda (shades of the Iron Curtain.....) to me.

At night, Radio Moscow International used to come in real loud and clear - and in English:

"The intrepid Worker Heroes at the Motherland's Pride factory in Ulasibirsk have through painstaking dilligence, untiring efforts and heroic support of The Party managed to increase tractor production to 200% of the previous year's output!!!!
Hail the Heroes of the Revolution!"

Translation: They made 2 tractors instead of 1. One of them might actually work come spring.....
 

Zanzibar

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 22, 2003
A few extra pounds, a few extra drinks, and a few extra cartons of cigarettes didn't seem to hurt Artur Dmitriev's ability to get Olympic gold...
 

Linny

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
John Baldwin

Appears to me like John Baldwin has shaped up a bit this season as compared to last but it hasn't really helped with his side-by-side jumps.

Linny
 

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Well, yeah, but John Baldwin is not exactly Elvis Stojko to begin with; his jumping has always been fairly erratic, which is why he never had much success in singles.
 

Jhar55

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Being Buff is not the same as being overweight.
As for having to lift the ladies most don't looks as if they weigh over 100lbs.
What one person thinks is overweight might not be to someone else.
 

iloveaxel

Match Penalty
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
more evidence

Add more evidence to my theory. Alexei TIKHONOV doubled his 3toe today, he has yet to land a clean sbs jump this season. John Baldwin did not even try a triple in their short program.
 
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