State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

[dorispulaski]

The entrance to that series of jumps is nice!

 

[sc8]

I do wish there was more variability among the program component scores for some of the top skaters. For example, there is rarely more than a .5 difference (e.g., 8.12 to 8.65) across the five component categories (e.g., SS, PE, CH, IN, TR). Ashley, in my opinion, should have gotten 9 (or higher) for IN and CH, maybe 8.5 for TR, and 8 for SS, with PE more likely effected by the Performance. In this scenario, her scores are relatively close, but still a full 1.0 point difference across categories. I would argue Miyahara should have a wider range. She should get 7-7.5 for SS, but could score as high as 9.0 for CH or 8.5 for PE, but that is 1.5 to 2.0 difference across those categories. Judges rarely give big score differences across categories, especially when the Program is executed well. I think there is more room to differentiate these categories for some skaters, especially when some are very slow, don't have any height or flow in jumps, no real eye contact or musicality, but might be consistent.

 

[apgold]

Amber Glenn: as mentioned above
- Karen Chen: as mentioned up-thread; she just needs to find consistentency
- Tyler Pierce: great jumps, gorgeous spins...I think she could surprise people in another year or two
- Angela Wang: textbook jumps, gorgeous flow, smooth style and lovely presentation
- Leah Keiser: great jumps, lovely look on the ice, has the ability to be more than what she puts out
- Mariah Bell: I adore her personality and she's a wonderful skater, but she'll need to up her content to be competitive.

Of the ones listed above, I think Mariah Bell has the best chance of breaking out of the pack (not including Karen b/c I feel like she already broke from the pack by placing 3rd at Nationals). I know Mariah is upping her tech content (she said as much in her recent TSL interview). I see her as a female Jason (and not just b/c team KoRo is behind her), a skater with personality and joy who is very detail oriented.

I've always liked Angela Wang (didn't she do a 3-3-2 in competition?) and her style is reminiscent of the Kween. She's got mental strength issues that she needs to work through. I know she trains w/Christy Krall and Damon Allen (who also coach Josh Farris, and I hope she is working with his sports psychologist.)

 

[kwanatic]

I do wish there was more variability among the program component scores for some of the top skaters. For example, there is rarely more than a .5 difference (e.g., 8.12 to 8.65) across the five component categories (e.g., SS, PE, CH, IN, TR). Ashley, in my opinion, should have gotten 9 (or higher) for IN and CH, maybe 8.5 for TR, and 8 for SS, with PE more likely effected by the Performance. In this scenario, her scores are relatively close, but still a full 1.0 point difference across categories. I would argue Miyahara should have a wider range. She should get 7-7.5 for SS, but could score as high as 9.0 for CH or 8.5 for PE, but that is 1.5 to 2.0 difference across those categories. Judges rarely give big score differences across categories, especially when the Program is executed well. I think there is more room to differentiate these categories for some skaters, especially when some are very slow, don't have any height or flow in jumps, no real eye contact or musicality, but might be consistent.

Using Ashley as an example (and I'm assuming you're talking about worlds) I have to disagree with some of those scores.

I agree with the 8 for SS but 8.5 in TR for Ashley is extremely generous given the amount of crossovers her program is loaded with. At best, I think Ashley should get a 7.50 in TR but in most cases she's worth about a 7.25. On a component by component basis, Transitions is Ashley's weakest area.

At nationals, I think 9s for IN and CH would have been justifiable given the field (and the national inflation) but in Shanghai that would have been too much. Ashley put forth a strong performance but given the fact that we've seen that program performed at its peak, it was obvious that wasn't her best. I'd have given her 8.5 in PE, IN and CH. So all of those scores (SS - 8, TR - 7.25, PE - 8.5, CH - 8.5, IN - 8.5) average out to a PCS of 65.20 compared to the 64.46 she got at worlds.

Gracie OTOH, I'd have given her 8.25 in SS, 7.5 in TR, 8 in PE, 8 in CH and 7.75 in IN. That'd have given her a PCS of 63.20, which is pretty much what the judges gave her (63.08).


As for Miyahara, I disagree re: her SS. IMO Miyahara has some of the strongest SS in the field. People don't pay attention to what she's doing with her feet b/c they are too preoccupied with her small size and jumps. A 7-7.5 is woefully low given that girl's skill level. That's what the judges gave her (7.50) and it just shows that they aren't paying attention to what's really happening on the ice.

TBH, I'd argue Miyahara has the strongest overall SS out of all of the ladies in the top 10 at worlds this year.

 

[sabinfire]

Only thing that keeps me interested in US skating in general right now is Ice Dance and a few skaters in the Men's field. And, Pairs, well... :hopelessness:

Ladies field seems a little desolate to me. They've got a lot of 'good' skaters with the 'potential' to be great, but tons of issues with consistency and mental toughness -- I do not trust the lot of them in high-pressure situations. Courtney Hicks is my favorite senior skater from the States right now. The only US lady that really caught my eye this year was Emily Chan, but I imagine it will be awhile before we see her rise up through the ranks, if it ever happens... :disapp:

This year's Worlds outing was particularly telling. One of the best opportunities for US Ladies on the podium in years... and they all blew it. Hard to imagine the next couple of upcoming seasons being any easier, but time will tell I guess.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

This year's Worlds outing was particularly telling. One of the best opportunities for US Ladies on the podium in years... and they all blew it. Hard to imagine the next couple of upcoming seasons being any easier, but time will tell I guess.

It's extremely frustrating because the American ladies seem to throw away their chances with the SP. I can't remember the last time an American woman skated a SP to her full potential at Worlds or Olympics. Maybe Mirai in 2010?

 

[qwerty]

It's extremely frustrating because the American ladies seem to throw away their chances with the SP. I can't remember the last time an American woman skated a SP to her full potential at Worlds or Olympics. Maybe Mirai in 2010?

Gracie Gold, 2014 Worlds and Olympics (albeit -.2 in GOE on 3L and 2A, respectively)
Ashley Wagner 2013 Worlds (sans triple-triple I guess, but it wasn't really a thing for her at that point)

This year was particularly rough though.

 

[andromache]

I've found that I'm able to enjoy the US ladies as long as I don't heap expectations on them. Even without making the podium, Gracie and Ashley both put out compelling LPs at Worlds this year that I've enjoyed rewatching. They weren't able to come from behind to make the podium, but they still rose in the ranks during the LP and it was a nice moment for each of them. Granted, I was hugely let down after their SPs, but given where US ladies are at the moment, I just have to take the good with the bad and still enjoy the skating when they do put out a nice program.

If the current US ladies weren't following such an impressive dynasty of US World and Olympics medalists, it would probably be easier to focus on what they HAVE accomplished instead of their shortcomings. US ladies don't dominate anymore, haven't come close to it since 2006 when Sasha won Olympic silver and Kimmie won gold, but we still look fondly back on those days. And back when Sasha was competing, everyone was disappointed in her for never winning Worlds gold like Michelle or Tara. But I'm attempting to focus on the positive aspects of the ladies we have now (aside from constructive criticism, obviously) rather than mourning the state of the US ladies. 4th and 5th best in the world is pretty respectable.

 

[Jammers]

I've found that I'm able to enjoy the US ladies as long as I don't heap expectations on them. Even without making the podium, Gracie and Ashley both put out compelling LPs at Worlds this year that I've enjoyed rewatching. They weren't able to come from behind to make the podium, but they still rose in the ranks during the LP and it was a nice moment for each of them. Granted, I was hugely let down after their SPs, but given where US ladies are at the moment, I just have to take the good with the bad and still enjoy the skating when they do put out a nice program.

If the current US ladies weren't following such an impressive dynasty of US World and Olympics medalists, it would probably be easier to focus on what they HAVE accomplished instead of their shortcomings. US ladies don't dominate anymore, haven't come close to it since 2006 when Sasha won Olympic silver and Kimmie won gold, but we still look fondly back on those days. And back when Sasha was competing, everyone was disappointed in her for never winning Worlds gold like Michelle or Tara. But I'm attempting to focus on the positive aspects of the ladies we have now (aside from constructive criticism, obviously) rather than mourning the state of the US ladies. 4th and 5th best in the world is pretty respectable.

Pretty respectable just doesn't cut it for US Ladies with their history anymore then Russian Pairs teams finishing in the top 5 at Worlds but not winning a medal does either.

 

[Krunchii]

Pretty respectable just doesn't cut it for US Ladies with their history anymore then Russian Pairs teams finishing in the top 5 at Worlds but not winning a medal does either.

I kind of agree, I'm content with them keeping 3 spots for the US but I'm not satisfied with their finishes because I know that they were capable of more (aka a medal).

 

[kwanatic]

The only US lady that really caught my eye this year was Emily Chan, but I imagine it will be awhile before we see her rise up through the ranks, if it ever happens... :disapp:

Do you mean Karen Chen?

But I'm attempting to focus on the positive aspects of the ladies we have now (aside from constructive criticism, obviously) rather than mourning the state of the US ladies. 4th and 5th best in the world is pretty respectable.

To me, Polina's 8th place finish was respectable...4th and 5th for Gracie and Ashley are respectable but I'm sure they're kicking themselves. Elena was sick and off her game and Satoko Miyahara put up very beatable numbers. The fact that the difference between 4th and 5th and 2nd and 3rd came down to Gracie and Ashley choking in the SP is a crushing blow. They blew it. Plain and simple. I'm happy they were able to skate well and keep the 3 spots but in terms of missed opportunities, this was a massive one.

 

[ice coverage]

Do you mean Karen Chen? ...

No, I think sabinfire really does mean Emily Chan, who just won silver IIRC at Gardena Spring Trophy, for example.

 

[sabinfire]

Do you mean Karen Chen?

That is a most definite 'no'.

 

[kwanatic]

That is a most definite 'no'.

Lol! Okay...that did seem like a pretty big miss. Emily Chan...is she a novice or junior?

ETA: I Googled her...now I know who you're talking about. Yes, I do remember her and she was one of the standouts in the novice competition. Is she going to be a junior next year?

 

[StitchMonkey]

Lol! Okay...that did seem like a pretty big miss. Emily Chan...is she a novice or junior?

ETA: I Googled her...now I know who you're talking about. Yes, I do remember her and she was one of the standouts in the novice competition. Is she going to be a junior next year?

I believe that is what has been indicated.

Also she is listed on the international selection pool.

 

[chuckm]

It's extremely frustrating because the American ladies seem to throw away their chances with the SP. I can't remember the last time an American woman skated a SP to her full potential at Worlds or Olympics. Maybe Mirai in 2010?

And then she blew the FS....and has been blowing everything since.

 

[mskater93]

Do you mean Karen Chen?



To me, Polina's 8th place finish was respectable...4th and 5th for Gracie and Ashley are respectable but I'm sure they're kicking themselves. Elena was sick and off her game and Satoko Miyahara put up very beatable numbers. The fact that the difference between 4th and 5th and 2nd and 3rd came down to Gracie and Ashley choking in the SP is a crushing blow. They blew it. Plain and simple. I'm happy they were able to skate well and keep the 3 spots but in terms of missed opportunities, this was a massive one.

For Gracie, it was just getting a jump combo of any sort in the SP (even if it was 3Lz+2T) between 4th and a medal...

 

[StitchMonkey]

For Gracie, it was just getting a jump combo of any sort in the SP (even if it was 3Lz+2T) between 4th and a medal...

Maybe it is time for he to try being a bit more conservative then build back up.

I think doing a clean good short with lower tech content might be a good mental boost for her at this point. Start small, make her earn back doing the big tricks.

 

[Bumdid]

Maybe it is time for he to try being a bit more conservative then build back up.

I think doing a clean good short with lower tech content might be a good mental boost for her at this point. Start small, make her earn back doing the big tricks.

I would say that this strategy would work on say, Ashley Wagner who has to worry about underrotation and double footing.The thing with Gracie is that she's capable of doing a 3lz+3toe in her sleep. It's just she's so tight at competition that she always messes up the first jump on the combo and fails to get a run out on her blade. Even if she does an easier combo, she won't get higher mark either way if she couldn't tack on the second jump.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I would say that this strategy would work on say, Ashley Wagner who has to worry about underrotation and double footing.The thing with Gracie is that she's capable of doing a 3lz+3toe in her sleep. It's just she's so tight at competition that she always messes up the first jump on the combo and fails to get a run out on her blade. Even if she does an easier combo, she won't get higher mark either way if she couldn't tack on the second jump.

But in theory wouldn't an easier combination be less stressful and easier to perform? Plus it might give her different motivation/a different mindset. Set a small goal of landing an easier jumping pass, then work on building up. She would have an end goal in mind and smaller goals along the way. That could help for some people.

I do think her's is largely mental, but a part of me still thinks you should bring what you can do, not what you should be able to do. What she is doing is not working, maybe it is time to scale back.