I just watched the ladies' highlights on Eurosport, and Chris & Simon essentially said the same thing Elvis did: Yu-Na was clearly the best, but Mao was also very strong and 3A combos should be worth more - as should quads and quad combos in the men's. It's not an unreasonable argument, although Elvis could do a better job of presenting it.
I thought Mao and Yu-Na were pretty close but I wasn't writing down anything they did, comparing what GOE I'd have given them , or checking the protocols for changes according to the technical specialist. One's opinion of a skate just from watching can be very different if one is just watching and enjoying rather than marking the performances. As to the GOE on Mao's 3ax, I don't think anyone should get positive GOE if there's any question whether or not the jump was fully rotated in the air. She did it and it was clean. Bravo for her, truly, but it wasn't worth a huge GOE.
If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?
If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?
If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?
Actually Yuna's flip was fully rotated, but even JP commentators said Mao's flip was giri-giri (borderline).
Also if they'd dinged Yuna & Mao for UR, almost everyone else would've received DGs.
That's why I said her jumps were barely rotated. I didn't say she was UR. NBC showed a slowmo replay and they were borderline. So, for someone to say Mao didn't deserve good GOE because she barely rotated her jumps, that rule should also apply to Kim.
That's why I said her jumps were barely rotated. I didn't say she was UR. NBC showed a slowmo replay and they were borderline. So, for someone to say Mao didn't deserve good GOE because she barely rotated her jumps, that rule should also apply to Kim.
and the lawyer comes out
If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?
That's why I said her jumps were barely rotated. I didn't say she was UR. NBC showed a slowmo replay and they were borderline. So, for someone to say Mao didn't deserve good GOE because she barely rotated her jumps, that rule should also apply to Kim.
I watched the super slowmo too. For a minute, I was worried that the 3toe of the 3lutz/3toe would be downgraded. I don't remember if they did a slowmo on Rachel's 3lutz(?)/3toe combo.
Ant? How can you say 3A-2T is easier than 3-3 when many (lady) skaters have done the latter and a tiny handful the former? And as for tacking on the 2T - correct me if I'm wrong since I"m not a technical person, but aren't skaters often omitting to tack it on because they lack speed or the first jump wasn't landed quite right? I don't think it's to be minimized... esp. after a 3A!Antman said:Yes the 3 Axel is a difficult jump, but a 3/3 combination is more difficult than a 3A/2 combination. The double toe is the easiest jump that you will see performed by elite skaters. It is a jump that some adult skaters can land - tacking it onto a 3A is not an impressive feat in and of itself - the triple axel is the only impressive thing about such a combination. Most elite senior (and actually probably junior too) skaters can tack a double toe on the end of any jump.
Forget the GoEs (- or +) they are just opinions regardless of any directive saying otherwise.
What should be done is let the judges handle the whole thing (get rid of the Technical Panel)
Let the element scores range from 0-10 and then multiplied by the base value for a particular element.
Then put the step sequence in the PC scores. All this would be in line with other judged Sports.
By and large, the PC scores are more opinion than quantitative. Like the 6.0 System, one man's feast is another man's poison. I would just suggest that an explanation should accompany the PC scores after the placements have been made. I am a firm believer in the right of the fan to know what's going on.
I totally agree. I also agree with 2 other posters saying that the whole issue is pointless since both Kim and Asada know well the base values of their jumps prior to competing at these Olympics. I don't mind the whole point system needs to changed for next season.Ant? How can you say 3A-2T is easier than 3-3 when many (lady) skaters have done the latter and a tiny handful the former? And as for tacking on the 2T - correct me if I'm wrong since I"m not a technical person, but aren't skaters often omitting to tack it on because they lack speed or the first jump wasn't landed quite right? I don't think it's to be minimized... esp. after a 3A!
I think Stojko is helping to focus a debate, so why the problem with his speaking up? He seems to enjoy being in the thick of controversy. Not every former champion would be up for that.
If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?
Where in my post did i say that judges don't ever compare skaters when scoring?
What annoys me a little is when people write strong opinions on judges and how they judged a competition or applied the rules, when the poster then admits that they've "heard" something about the rules rather than read them....how good an opinion is it if it's based on heresay about the rules and the person hasn't even read the rules for themselves? How do they know that the heresay about the rules is even correct?
Ant
Well you did say the judges do not compare skaters to others, or even the skater to themselves right? So it seems like you are saying they don't make comparisons. Anyways, I think you're overreacting in a way. So people can't make some opinions about the judging unless they read the whole manuel of rules? :sheesh: BTW I said the judges MIGHT not they were definitely judging that way or anything. If you don't like my opinion, you can just ignore~~~but I and others have the right to make one right?
Well, it's definitely worth debating if a 3Axel-2Toe should be worth more than a 3Lutz-3Toe. The former was considered more difficult in the past.