Tara and Johnny and Michelle and Olympic Coverage

[drivingmissdaisy]

Additionally, it's kind of ludicrous to say that having the crowd behind her gave Adelina the advantage--as if she had somehow gained the crowd's affection by her behavior or by the quality of her skating. That crowd would have supported the mascot skating. It was a partisan Russian crowd. YuNa's performance didn't leave the audience cold by its quality but by her nationality. Tara thought that Adelina skated with "heart." What quality does she think it takes to skate a flawless program with no panic-induced stumbles or falls in front of a crowd that doesn't give a hoot about you? I'd call that "heart," and of a particularly stellar kind.

You have to also remember that the audience is your average, uninformed-about-skating American public. They understand things like "heart" and "energy" better than that Yuna did 6 back crossovers with no footwork into her 3-3 versus 2 back crossovers and a little footwork for Adelina.

 

[cchen24]

You have to also remember that the audience is your average, uninformed-about-skating American public. They understand things like "heart" and "energy" better than that Yuna did 6 back crossovers with no footwork into her 3-3 versus 2 back crossovers and a little footwork for Adelina.

The audience could not tell Adelina's 3-3 included a flutz and an under-rotated 3 toe, either.

More crossovers by Yuna? They also translate to her faster speed which should be clear to the crowd in the arena, as demonstrated by video taken by people in the audience (probably not as clear on TV).

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

More crossovers by Yuna? They also translate to her faster speed which should be clear to the crowd in the arena, as demonstrated by video taken by people in the audience (probably not as clear on TV).

I agree, but I'm not sure that this is the "preferred" way to gain speed under COP. Nonetheless, she is the fastest (maybe Caro is sometimes) and she is rewarded with the highest PCS.

 

[Olympia]

You have to also remember that the audience is your average, uninformed-about-skating American public. They understand things like "heart" and "energy" better than that Yuna did 6 back crossovers with no footwork into her 3-3 versus 2 back crossovers and a little footwork for Adelina.

This is probably true. But American audiences also understand a partisan arena, and that could have been pointed out. Also, it's the commentators' job to give the audience some information that they wouldn't otherwise have. To point out that one skater uses more intricate footwork than another, for example, isn't that hard for an inexperienced viewer to take in, and this understanding will enrich the viewer's appreciation of what it takes to skate well. I remember years ago having one commentator point out the difference between the way Surya Bonaly skated between jumps (lots of two-footed skating and the blades mostly going in the same direction all the time, as well as short, choppy stroking) and the way Yuka Sato skated (great variety in footwork, edges, which way each foot was going, with lots of glide), illustrated by camera views of ankles-down skating from both ladies. It helped me understand why I found Yuka's skating so graceful and satisfying to watch, and why judges tended to mark her higher than Surya unless there were problems with jumps.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I remember years ago having one commentator point out the difference between the way Surya Bonaly skated between jumps (lots of two-footed skating and the blades mostly going in the same direction all the time, as well as short, choppy stroking) and the way Yuka Sato skated (great variety in footwork, edges, which way each foot was going, with lots of glide), illustrated by camera views of ankles-down skating from both ladies.

I never saw this, and I think it would have helped me understand the criticism behind Surya's skating much earlier. Dick Button criticized her "telegraphed entrances" and "wide-swinging free leg" a lot to explain her weaknesses. I see Surya's weaknesses better now, but it had very little to do with telegraphed jumps, because at the time her entrances were no worse than the other ladies. Even now, Carolina telegraphs her jumps every bit as much as Surya did. I think COP would have actually helped Surya improve because she never got clear direction from the judges. Sometimes they loved her and other times they didn't. With COP she would have been slammed consistently and forced to improve in the areas in which she was weak.

 

[cchen24]

I agree, but I'm not sure that this is the "preferred" way to gain speed under COP. Nonetheless, she is the fastest (maybe Caro is sometimes) and she is rewarded with the highest PCS.

Sorry, but the difference of 0.09 in PCS between Yuna and Adelina is basically a tie, which in my opinion is a joke.

If doing crossovers is not the preferred way to gain speed under CoP, what is?
No matter what your answer is, it is a fact that Yuna was way faster than Adelina, i.e. Adelina could not reach the same speed as Yuna's by doing less crossovers, or I should say no one could since I didn't notice anyone achieving that kind of speed.

Maybe you are suggesting that Yuna should do less crossovers and skate slower? Then, her jumps would not be nearly as impressive. Yuna's jumps always look stunning to me because they cover an incredible amount of ice and I believe the secret behind this is her speed into her jumps. But she was not rewarded with the highest GOEs at the Olympics, which is another joke to me.

 

[skatedreamer]

I never saw this, and I think it would have helped me understand the criticism behind Surya's skating much earlier. Dick Button criticized her "telegraphed entrances" and "wide-swinging free leg" a lot to explain her weaknesses. I see Surya's weaknesses better now, but it had very little to do with telegraphed jumps, because at the time her entrances were no worse than the other ladies. Even now, Carolina telegraphs her jumps every bit as much as Surya did. I think COP would have actually helped Surya improve because she never got clear direction from the judges. Sometimes they loved her and other times they didn't. With COP she would have been slammed consistently and forced to improve in the areas in which she was weak.

Although it's true that Carolina did telegraph her jumps in both of her Sochi programs the rest of her skating was fluid and graceful. She had wonderful choreography and was completely connected to her music. Maybe that's why she didn't get called out so much for telegraphing. OTOH, Surya was all about jumping so the telegraphing might have stood out more b/c there wasn't much else to focus on.

I'm not so sure that COP would have helped Surya. She had amazing athletic gifts but was also very headstrong; I seem to remember comments at the time that people had really tried to get her to focus more on interpretation/artistry, but she just wasn't buying it -- just couldn't see the point. Makes me sad b/c her jumping ability was extraordinary.

 

[justathoughtabl]

Agreed about having mixed feelings on Tara and Johnny doing prime time in 2018. I think they're wonderful, but I watched when they commentated the gala in prime time and NBC's format drove me nuts. "More figure skating to come, but first...alpine skiing!" Also, the fluff, cutting to parents in the stands, etc... I can't picture Johnny gushing about so-and-so's special relationship with their mother or whatever. The NBCSN format...skating all the way through...had me spoiled. And it allowed for kind of an ongoing "conversation," if you will, among the crew. We didn't have a lot of breaks.

Also, I disagree somewhat on Tara muting Johnny's personality. When he commentated for Ice Network in 2011, he was just as quiet. Maybe he cracked a few jokes at first, but he quickly got more serious. I think he's a lot more quiet and thoughtful than people give him credit for. In fact, Tara talks a lot more than he does. And he rarely talks about himself. I think the one time he brought up his own experience was when he said he used to hope a light would fall on him during warmups to "put me out of my misery." I think their daily Instagrams and tweets were sort of brilliant. It gave the press something to latch onto and got people talking about them and more people tuned into skating. Skating needs a bit of that irreverence.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Maybe you are suggesting that Yuna should do less crossovers and skate slower? Then, her jumps would not be nearly as impressive. Yuna's jumps always look stunning to me because they cover an incredible amount of ice and I believe the secret behind this is her speed into her jumps. But she was not rewarded with the highest GOEs at the Olympics, which is another joke to me.

Yuna skating is awesome and is rewarded for being so. Adelina is a bit slower but does more intricate steps, which is also great and is rewarded for being so. Some prefer fast skating, some prefer more difficult transitions. There is a compelling argument for giving Yuna the highest PCS, but a few other skaters do surpass her in some areas and lag behind in others.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I'm not so sure that COP would have helped Surya. She had amazing athletic gifts but was also very headstrong; I seem to remember comments at the time that people had really tried to get her to focus more on interpretation/artistry, but she just wasn't buying it -- just couldn't see the point. Makes me sad b/c her jumping ability was extraordinary.

I wonder to what extent (if at all) Surya trained figures. She came on to the scene right as those were being phased out, but IIRC as a junior the figures were still being done (at least on the senior level). I agree she was headstrong and it showed up in some odd choices, including her decision not to wear tights. It's unfortunate because she was massively talented and I don't doubt with focus and good coaching she could have been a multiple world champion.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Yuna skating is awesome and is rewarded for being so. Adelina is a bit slower but does more intricate steps, which is also great and is rewarded for being so. Some prefer fast skating, some prefer more difficult transitions. There is a compelling argument for giving Yuna the highest PCS, but a few other skaters do surpass her in some areas and lag behind in others.

Are you saying you can favor one skater and still show respect towards another. I'm not sure I'm following you.

 

[Zamboni]

I never saw this, and I think it would have helped me understand the criticism behind Surya's skating much earlier. Dick Button criticized her "telegraphed entrances" and "wide-swinging free leg" a lot to explain her weaknesses. I see Surya's weaknesses better now, but it had very little to do with telegraphed jumps, because at the time her entrances were no worse than the other ladies. Even now, Carolina telegraphs her jumps every bit as much as Surya did. I think COP would have actually helped Surya improve because she never got clear direction from the judges. Sometimes they loved her and other times they didn't. With COP she would have been slammed consistently and forced to improve in the areas in which she was weak.

Surya needed someone other than her Mom running her career. I've always wondered what she would have accomplished with a good coach and choreographer.

 

[TontoK]

^^^ Surya.

What a mismanagement of talent. She could have been something special. Instead, I've always found her to be a bit of a joke.

The situation reminds me of sports in the small town I live in. "Daddy Ball" where the dad invests mightily in the handling of his sons development, fighting with coaches, manipulating team rosters... it never works out.

 

[noskates]

I think Surya would be at the bottom of the heap skating under the current judging system. I never saw any continuity in her programs - just telegraph a jump, do the jump, pop up like a jack-in-the-box, race off to the next jump, etc. I think she and Tara had a lot of similarities in that they both ice skated like former roller skaters. There was/is a bouncing to them instead of a gliding. But I do agree that her mother didn't do her any favors....in skating OR in attitude.

 

[cooper]

She's probably my favorite skater ever, and I admire her for her post-ice career, but she is not yet a polished on-camera speaker when she needs to improvise. When she gives a prepared speech, as in the graduation speech she gave for a Vermont college, she's charming, and I assume this is the way she comes across on her State Department assignments. So she probably just needs a bit more time, experience, and polish to transfer that confidence to unplanned speaking. The information and insight she gives, however, are wonderful and worth a listen. Not only is she very smart, but her skating career is like that of no other American from her generation, and that gives her an edge (no pun intended) over many other interviewers and commentators.

or maybe because michelle likes to think first before she speaks?? she's not like sasha or tara who are outspoken.. michelle seems more reserved..

 

[RobinA]

I liked the Tara/Johnny combo a lot, and I am decided NOT a Tara fan. They had chemistry and the whole Tara/Johnny/Terry threesome worked very well. They did tend to talk more about themselves than previous commentators, especially Tara, but Terry kept bringing it up, so she would have had to ignore him on live TV in order not to talk about herself.

I think Johnny is thoughtful and intelligent about skating, and despite his flamboyant dress keeps it smart and informative during the broadcast. He has a way of putting things that makes you remember his comments, kinda like...Dick Button. The people who heard it will be looking for blizzards versus flurries for competitions to come. Same with the hoping a light would fall on him comment, which kind of perfectly illustrates how I'm sure many of them feel out there. I know I would. They both have room to improve, but I'm sure they will, they are new at this. I think commentating is not as easy as it may look and one has to learn to observe a lot of different things at once during a program and then comment intelligently about it. I don't mind too much a little reflection of their favorite things to see in figure skating, at long as it doesn't devolve into rah-rah.

 

[justathoughtabl]

I think Johnny is thoughtful and intelligent about skating, and despite his flamboyant dress keeps it smart and informative during the broadcast. He has a way of putting things that makes you remember his comments, kinda like...Dick Button.

In this NY Times article, Dick Button has high praise for Johnny. (And then appears to remember his pledge never to comment on commentators!)
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/garden/dick-button-still-cuts-a-fine-figure.html?_r=0

 

[RiceSkate]

I like Johnny but can't stand Tara. 16 years hasn't subsided my dislike for her. I can't stand how she fawns over the 15 year old wonders every season. She must be enjoying this new found resurgence in relevance for her though.

 

[shellbell757]

I don't mind Tara and Johnny, but I agree that Tara seems to extoll the virtues of every young teenager in the competition. I get that she won the gold as a young girl who had great jumps and not much else, so she likes other young girls who have great jumps and not much else, but damn...

 

[wootie]

Yeah, I think Tara is a nice, feisty, reasonably smart person. The problem is she is so obviously biased in favor of skaters who act just like she did when she was 15. The girls she's always losing her head over are usually tiny, overtly "showy" in terms of their artistry, and technically strong. She generally has faint praise for the ladies that actually have some depth of feeling to their skating or probably make her feel insecure about her rather immature brand of skating.

Johnny is fine except he fetishizes Russian culture and, by extension, the Russian coaches and their skaters to some ridiculous degree that doesn't make any sort of sense and affects his commentary at times.