The Case for Handwork: Balancing Art and Sport in Figure Skating

[moonvine]

Hopefully this hasn't been discussed before. Very interesting blog piece.

The Case for Handwork: Balancing Art and Sport in Figure Skating

A trip to the museum... Last year I moved just outside of Providence, RI to be closer to my job at The Skating Club of Boston. Providence is a beautiful city with a thriving culture and art scene and it has been really fun to explore. One of my favorite places that I’ve discovered by far is the...

www.matthewlindcoaching.com

 

[TallyT]

Hopefully this hasn't been discussed before. Very interesting blog piece.

The Case for Handwork: Balancing Art and Sport in Figure Skating

A trip to the museum... Last year I moved just outside of Providence, RI to be closer to my job at The Skating Club of Boston. Providence is a beautiful city with a thriving culture and art scene and it has been really fun to explore. One of my favorite places that I’ve discovered by far is the...

www.matthewlindcoaching.com

With all due respect, this is what the ISU and feds, especially those with quadsters like the US and Russia, wanted and worked to create. We can only assume they are satisfied with they've done and what has come of it.

 

[el henry]

This particular Technical Specialist (American) appears not to be satisfied with the current judging system. I see no evidence he had any role in creating it.

When I watch skating today, these are all masters of their craft and incredible athletes. However, judged as artists, there have been only maybe a small handful of performances recently that I felt could belong in a museum. This isn't any skater's fault, they want to win and they are working with the parameters we've given them.

Lind goes on to use the same criteria that Rohene Ward gives his skaters: the audience will remember how you made them feel.

Because this system has become so specific in its criteria, as an art form our canvases (or our ice) has been covered with more and more and more of the same colors and patterns from every single would-be artist. You can look at each little part of it granularly in slow motion like I do as a specialist and get a certain perspective but that is only part of how you should evaluate and appreciate good skating.

I found it fascinating that a technical specialist is asking these questions.

 

[TallyT]

This particular Technical Specialist (American) appears not to be satisfied with the current judging system. I see no evidence he had any role in creating it.

When I watch skating today, these are all masters of their craft and incredible athletes. However, judged as artists, there have been only maybe a small handful of performances recently that I felt could belong in a museum. This isn't any skater's fault, they want to win and they are working with the parameters we've given them.

Lind goes on to use the same criteria that Rohene Ward gives his skaters: the audience will remember how you made them feel.

Because this system has become so specific in its criteria, as an art form our canvases (or our ice) has been covered with more and more and more of the same colors and patterns from every single would-be artist. You can look at each little part of it granularly in slow motion like I do as a specialist and get a certain perspective but that is only part of how you should evaluate and appreciate good skating.

I found it fascinating that a technical specialist is asking these questions.

Oh, I'm not blaming him specifically. But it is what it is, and I don't understand why anyone is surprised.

 

[Mathman]

If this expert's beef is that "artistically only a small handful of recent performances belomg in a museum" -- well, duh. Be happy even one does.

 

[icewhite]

Okay, no.
Figure skating is not art.
It can be absolutely beautiful, intriguing, captivating, but it's not art.
And there is a romantisizing of the old era going on. To be fair I haven't experienced too much of it consciously, but I remember some late 90s programs well and I do know quite a lot of videos of old performances. Don't tell me Katarina Witt, one fo the most successful and cherished athletes of old times, was art, because she wasn't. She was part of the huge GDR sports system.
I don't think programs of Hanyu for instance are less beautiful or captivating or complete than 95% of the programs of the 6.0 era.
And he managed to become a 2 time Olympian winner with that, so what's even up with this "this judging system makes us void of beautiful programs that we had before"?
Still, it isn't art.
Instead, by the way, figure skating is and has been for a long time, full of glitzer, cheap looking costumes, KITSCH, lots of it, fake smiles.

Art can only be compared and judged up to a certain point and that's why I wouldn't even want to strive for art in the sport as something that's supposed to be judged.
However, technique and intensity, and also things like rhythm and the balance of a program can and should be judged.

I am advocating for beauty in the sport and it is there.
Art however is something else.

 

[4everchan]

I agree that figure skating is not art ^^
And I find it pretentious that some figure skaters or fans or whoever say it is...
It is a sport, a beautiful one. One with a great entertainment factor. But it is not art. Sorry, not sorry

 

[el henry]

I do not find the comparison pretentious in context of the actual blog post and Lind’s arguments, but that’s just me.

since this is a person who is actually trained in judging the technical aspects of the sport, dare we say an expert in the technical side

I found the article and its arguments worthwhile.

 

[4everchan]

I do not find the comparison pretentious in context of the actual blog post and Lind’s arguments, but that’s just me.

since this is a person who is actually trained in judging the technical aspects of the sport, dare we say an expert in the technical side

I found the article and it’s arguments worthwhile.

I don't think that it makes figure skating more "artistic" because a tech specialist would like it to be etc etc etc. but yeah. YMMV

 

[dorispulaski]

I found the article an interesting read.

However, there are lots of painters but very few artists. That is true in any "art."

And it was true of skaters in the past, too.

As the tech specialist admits, we have artists today, too. He likes Papadakis & Cizeron and Nathan Chen. All are Olympic champions, so what's his beef?

Now he quotes Sandra Bezic, who likes Jason Brown, who is not as much rewarded because his jumps have fewer revolutions. But half the score was tech in the past, judged in a 6.0 system, so Jason would not have won Olympic gold then either. Toller Cranston, a real artist both on the ice and when painting, seldom medaled on the international stage.

We are lucky to have each one of these artists, whatever their medium.

 

[gkelly]

I figure:
Skating is a technical sport that can be aesthetically beautiful to watch when performed well.

The technique and the use of music also allow for skaters to transcend the technical demands and also bring artistic considerations to their performances.

That can be really special when it happens in the context of competition. And of course it is the whole point of show skating. But it's not required for a competitive performance to be excellent/medal-worthy.

To some degree the competition structure is set up to encourage/reward this, but even when there were only two marks the second mark was at least as much about the technical mastery needed to meet certain performance expectations as it was about creating "art."

Personally, I think the current program requirements and Scale of Values for singles and pairs overreward what happens in the air above the ice compared with actual blade-to-ice techniques. And that often much of what skaters who are considered "artistic" excel at is those on-ice technical skills.

 

[4everchan]

Skating is a technical sport that can be aesthetically beautiful to watch when performed well.

Quoted for emphasis. Thank you ! This is exactly how I feel about figure skating and why I love it.

 

[Mathman]

I agree that figure skating is not art ^^
And I find it pretentious that some figure skaters or fans or whoever say it is...

I think it could also be considered pretentious for a person, however well-informed about aesthetic matters he might be, to arrogate to himself the authority to dictate to others what words mean. Michelangelo was a great artist. Was he a great linguistic historian as well?

Etymologically speaking, "art" originally meant manmade as opposed to occuring naturally. A slightly earlier meaning was "a skill acqured by study or practice." As is, the arts of basketweaving and pottery are the pillars upon which civilization was founded.

I think you are quite mistaken when you say that art, or anything else, isn't what people say it is. That's the funny thing about words. They mean exactly what people say they do.

That's what I think, anyway.

 

[4everchan]

I think it could also be considered pretentious for a person, however well-informed about aesthetic matters he might be, to arrogate to himself the authority to dictate to others what words mean. Michelangelo was a great artist. Was he a great linguistic historian as well?

Etymologically speaking, "art" originally meant manmade as opposed to occuring naturally. A slightly earlier meaning was "a skill acqured by study or practice." As is, the arts of basketweaving and pottery are the pillars upon which civilization was founded.

I think you are quite mistaken when you say that art, or anything else, isn't what people say it is. That's the funny thing about words. They mean exactly what people say they do.

That's what I think, anyway.

I said "I find it pretentious" I didn't write " IT IS" Nothing wrong with that
And as you know, things evolve.... words too... Basketweaving and pottery are now commonly referred too as "crafts" not art.

 

[icewhite]

I think it could also be considered pretentious for a person, however well-informed about aesthetic matters he might be, to arrogate to himself the authority to dictate to others what words mean. Michelangelo was a great artist. Was he a great linguistic historian as well?

Etymologically speaking, "art" originally meant manmade as opposed to occuring naturally. A slightly earlier meaning was "a skill acqured by study or practice." As is, the arts of basketweaving and pottery are the pillars upon which civilization was founded.

exactlyI think you are quite mistaken when you say that art, or anything else, isn't what people say it is. That's the funny thing about words. They mean exactly what people say they do.

That's what I think, antway.

Well, art is a word that has a lot of definitions and there isn't a universally accepted one but I think it is commonly agreed today that "art" doesn't actually mean craftsmanship anymore (of course I'm not a native speaker, but I don't think that's so different in English) except for certain situations and expressions. If one talks about "art" in general the concept of l'art pour l'art at least always plays a role, even if it is not accepted as such.

 

[TallyT]

Well, that's exactly what I did... I said "I find it pretentious" I didn't write " IT IS" Nothing wrong with that
And as you know, things evolve.... words too... Basketweaving and pottery are now commonly referred too as "crafts" not art.

Sometimes crafts. sometimes art... sometimes openly intended and designed as the latter. Art is defined by Oxford as 'the use of the imagination to express ideas or feelings, particularly in painting, drawing or sculpture' (particularly, not exclusively) which can pretty much cover any manmade pursuit if created with that in mind and it doesn't absolutely need to be its only or maybe even its primary object - Faberge cigarette cases anyone? Something like clothes can be both practical and almost high art, and coming back to figure skating, Satomi Ito's book on her designs was titled 'Art Costumes' and no one demurred.

Yuzuru was asked, when he was 20, if he was an artist or an athlete and he answered "I am an artistic athlete." I can see P/C agreeing with this. I think at its best, it is a balancing act between technical/athletic wizardry, skating skill and artistry and no balancing act is easy, especially as it gets further unbalanced, especially when money, power and politics takes over as it does in all forms of art at times.

 

[Mathman]

I said "I find it pretentious" I didn't write " IT IS" Nothing wrong with that

OK, now I can't help myself: And I said "it could be considered pretentious..." not "it is pretentious. In fact, I said "I thnk it could be considered pretetious" -- what could be more wishy-washy than that. Anyway, I am probably wrong. Very likely it could not possible be so considered after all.

 

[4everchan]

Sometimes crafts. sometimes art... sometimes openly intended and designed as the latter. Art is defined by Oxford as 'the use of the imagination to express ideas or feelings, particularly in painting, drawing or sculpture' (particularly, not exclusively) which can pretty much cover any manmade pursuit if created with that in mind and it doesn't absolutely need to be its only or maybe even its primary object - Faberge cigarette cases anyone? Something like clothes can be both practical and almost high art, and coming back to figure skating, Satomi Ito's book on her designs was titled 'Art Costumes' and no one demurred.

Yuzuru was asked, when he was 20, if he was an artist or an athlete and he answered "I am an artistic athlete." I can see P/C agreeing with this. I think at its best, it is a balancing act between technical/athletic wizardry, skating skill and artistry and no balancing act is easy, especially as it gets further unbalanced, especially when money, power and politics takes over as it does in all forms of art at times.

It seems quite clear to some that figure skating is an artistic sport... It doesn't work out that way in my brain. Sorry Maybe because until my late teens, I was a competitive athlete (swimming) and then, at some point, art took over. There are similarities between both worlds : they require extreme dedication and sacrifices. However, for the rest, they come from a different place, a different mindset, with different objectives and intent. So to me, figure skating will always remain a sport with some entertainment value when things go well on the ice.
All of you who disagree with me, that's all fine by me. I am not trying to convince anyone i am right I am just sharing my point of view, which is what a forum is all about.

 

[Mathman]

Well, art is a word that has a lot of definitions and there isn't a universally accepted one but I think it is commonly agreed today that "art" doesn't actually mean craftsmanship anymore (of course I'm not a native speaker, but I don't think that's so different in English) except for certain situations and expressions. If one talks about "art" in general the concept of l'art pour l'art at least always plays a role, even if it is not accepted as such.

Here is what I think. There are a lot of views as to what isn't art. What IS art, now things start to get trickier. If we consult with the experts in word usage we get things like this:

On-line Oxford English dictionary

1. The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.

"The art of the Renaissance.”

(Is music an art by this definition – or is it come up a little short on the “visual” part. of the definition?)


Merriam-Webster

1. Skill acquired by experience, study, or observation

“The art of making friends.”

(This is the number one definition of this well-regarded lexicon, compiled by experts in English usage based on the compilation and analysis of extensive data bases. Is Merriam-Webster right, or are they full of baloney? Is the Labrador Retriever the most artistic breed of dog?)

I am not making this up. If dictionary-makers cannot decide what the word “art” means, what chance to we poor slobs have of ever saying anything intelligent on the subject. Here is an example of the type of thing that serious scholars have to say. (This is actually a preetty good article on the subject.)

The Definition of Art (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

plato.stanford.edu

 

[4everchan]

You know, in my native language, Figure skating is called Patinage artistique... so you can just go with the French and call it a day. And maybe, again, this is why I object to the association of art to this sport so strongly, because that's how it is called and it has been feeling wrong forever

I am out of here cheerio !