The Effects on Sasha's 2004 Pursuits

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's becoming somewhat apparent that the split was mutually agreed upon. While we await the official Sasha report how about some opines on these questions?

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her?

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha?

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha?

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities?

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds?

6. (For fans only) Has this affected your position on Sasha?

Joe

 

[Jaana]

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her?
Yes

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha?
I think so

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha?
No

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities?
Maybe a little bit. On the other hand it might prove as a boost?

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds?
Yes

6. (For fans only) Has this affected your position on Sasha?
No. Besides I never understood the reason why she chose Tarasova for her coach. That is not meant negatively towards Tarasova, it is just that I never thought that Tarasova was the coach she needed.

 

[Ogre Mage]

Sasha

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her? -- I think so.

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha? -- That remains to be seen. In terms of choreography, no. But she may be able to help with Sasha's mental preparation.

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha? -- I think this would only happen if Tarasova bad mouthed Sasha.

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities? -- Sadly, yes. A major change like this before a big competition is not good.

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds? -- Most definitely.

6. (For fans only) Has this affected your position on Sasha? -- No. I am not that shocked she left Tatiana, though I am very surprised by the timing and that she went to Robin.

 

[LBC]

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her?
Yes. She is still going to be using her programs or at least half as Malaguena is basically Morosov's.

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha?
Too soon to tell. Wait till after Nats.

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha?
No. They liked her before TT. If she can deliever the goods they'll give her the marks. It does seem that TT's disagreement was more with her mom than Sasha herself so she might not do any bad mouthing of her.

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities?
Yes. It will depend on whether it will be good or bad. The whole mess with TT may have been distracting her the last 2 competitions so with the conflict gone she may be able to just concentrate on skating again. OTOH the press will be all over her and it will depend on how much they decide to dwell on it and what spin they take on whether it will effect her negatively.

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds?
Yes. Physically she's fine and Worlds is 2 months after Nats so there is plenty of time to get over this whole thing with TT and move on.

6. (For fans only) Has this affected your position on Sasha?

No. She's still the same skater. Splits with coaches happen all the time. This one just came as a bigger shock as on the outside things looked great plus so soon before Nats.

 

[nymkfan51]

Sasha in 2004

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her?
I would think so.

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha? Probably in some ways she will. I have questions now though, on whether she is willing to let her coach have the final say so in skating matters.

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha? No

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities? I think it may. My only thought is that if she was unhappy with TT towards the end and felt stressed, the coaching change could help her relax some. OTOH ... she might also feel some pressure that she has to make the coaching change to Robin work out, for fear of being labeled a head-case and problem child.

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds?
You bet.

6. (For fans only) Has this affected your position on Sasha?
Not really ... but I have to admit, with all the celebration and high hopes there were for Sasha this season with TT, I am looking for her to skate consistently like everybody keeps saying she's capable of.
Bluntly speaking, it's put up or shut up time. JMO

 

[purplecat]

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her? yes

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha? maybe, time will tell

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha? no

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities? perhaps, if she lets it get to her head

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds? physically I think she was never out of shape, mentally...yes, she can get her "form" back.

6. (For fans only) Has this affected your position on Sasha? no, I'm a big Sasha fan and it doesn't affect how much I like her. It does make me concerned for her, but in the long run I think she'll be fine.

 

[Lcp88]

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha?

Personally, I don't think so. A few of Sarah's jumps began to get significantly worse when she started skating with Robin, and since Sasha's technical skills have never been that great, I think she may falter in that area. IMO Robin is a great choreographer, but just isn't that great of a coach. Sarah becoming the Olympic champ just boosted her popularity (again JMO.)

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities?
I don't think so either. It will all come down to how well Sasha skates, what her mental state is, and probably how well the other skaters do.

Laura

 

[show 42]

Good points to ponder.......I'll give it a shot.....

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her?
Absolutely......her program is already in place and she has proven that she can skate it cleanly.

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha?
Possibly....at this point, Robin may just be a "figure head", someone to be by her side at Nationals and Worlds. A repoire needs time to develop.

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha?
Why would they.......skaters switch coaches all the time.

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities?
Only Sasha can affect Sasha......ability and performance is "90 percent above the neck" anyway.

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds?
No doubt.

6. (For fans only) Has this affected your position on Sasha?
Nope, she's gutsy and knows what she wants.
42

 

[thisthingcalledlove]

responses...

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her? Of course. Much of what TT gave her TT cannot take away simply by leaving, just like the lessons we learned in school cannot be taken away.

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha? To soon to tell. I do think the psychology degree helps.

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha? Not at all. She's not an ice dancer LOL

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities? Someone said it could affect her negatively and positively. Sure, maybe she'll now be able to concentrate on just skating. But, on the other hand, we have some pretty feisty members of the press...

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds? Yes. I don't really think she lost her physical shape. It was her mental shape that took a bit of a bruising.

6. (For fans only) Has this affected your position on Sasha? Not at all. She's still the same beautiful skater. I only wish she had Sarah's consistency and Kat's competitiveness. Imagine what kind of a skater she'd be if she had all three...

 

[berthes ghost]

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her?

No.

She was only with her for less that 2 seasons. How much can someone really learn in that time? We know that she didn't learn consistancy.

With each season, if the things TT stressed are not reinforced by the newer coaches, they will slowly slip away, like an unused foreign language.

She will most probably carry her programs thru to worlds, but with all of the damage control that TT's "freinds" have been spinning, it seems likeit will be a cold day in h e double hockey sticks before TT ever choereographs a program for her again. It's not like she will be going into Tutino with a new TT program.

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha?

I'm doubtful.

It seems that the Hughes gave Robin a very long leash, but that Galina keeps a very watchful eye and Sasha is supose to be very willful and independant. With that formula, I see a high probablity for clashes in the future.

Sarah had dubious technique, but Robin gave her polish. Sasha doesn't need help with presentation taht will please the judges, but her tech is very unreliable. She needs a more tecnical coach, not a former choreographer.

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha?

No.

They mostly love her.

She still has a high profle coach.

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities?

50/50 chance.

Leaving TT may have been throwin the baby out with the bathwater. What can Robin do in less than a month? Not much. What exactly was TT doing wrong? Who knows. Nats, like all comps, will rest soley with Sasha and what's going on in her head.

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds?

Physical or mental? Obviously with 3 gp titles and a gpf silver, "out of shape" is still better than most of the ladies in the world. I don't thing she's out of shape at all, and no amount of traing will change where her head is at unless she does something drastic soon.

 

[Ladskater]

It's unusual for a skater to switch coaches before a season ends; but, certainly skaters do change coaches from time to time. For whatever reasons Sasha and her coach split it's not for us to judge. It's hard to say how this will affect her in the Nationals. I think she may have already been affected by her defeat at the GP Final. Who knows? It takes time to adjust to any new change. I am sure Sasha will do her best. I don't think the judges will hold it against Sasha for changing coaches. It's not their place. Whether it was a good move for Sasha, only time will tell.

 

[hockeyfan228]

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her? I think she'll retain the training methods she learned, the cultural education that Tarasova started to give her, commitment to improving the programs over the course of the season, and a greater base confidence.

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha? Wagner has done both very full choreography -- Bayadere and Daphnis and Chloe -- and very powerful choreography -- last year's Rachmaninoff SP -- for Hughes. She has a lot of footwork going on in her programs, and is capable of creating more transitions and giving Cohen's programs a more unified feel and less of a series of highlights and positions. I don't think Wagner will work on the flutz, but Hughes had very deep, long edges out of her solo edge jumps and many of her spirals, including the in-between spirals that weren't part of the sequence. I'm not sure if this, like mental toughness, was intrinsic to Hughes' skating -- which would make it that much more frustrating that she wasn't able to do the lutz properly -- or if Wagner can instill this in Cohen's skating, to give her more arc and flow and a little less straight-ahead attack.

Also, I think it was an act of genius for Wagner to re-choreograph the last half of Hughes' Olympic long program after Nationals. It forced Hughes to concentrate on new choreography and music, instead of obsessing about her substandard Nationals performance. Wagner may be able to create some distractions for Cohen as well.

I'd ask the opposite -- is Cohen good for Wagner? I'm less sure of that.

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha? At Nationals, no; the USFSA may never have been comfortable with Tarasova. At Worlds, I think yes, she'll go back to being a top-notch contender, not a favorite.

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities? No, I think it will help her.

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds? Absolutely. She needs to peak later in the season. Certainly with her base programs in muscle memory Cohen can peak for March. That's three months, almost as long as she had to learn her 2003/4 programs and compete in GP.

6. (For fans only) Has this affected your position on Sasha? I'm disappointed. I somehow feel she left being among the chosen. (If she had left Moskvina or Rodnina, I would have had to track her down and strangle her.) The first time I was really touched by her skating -- as opposed to bowled over (Masquerade Waltz) or impressed -- was at the cheesefest, because I thought her program was quite wonderful between the jumps, and the jump meltdown didn't affect the rest of her program. I was hoping that would be a real turning point for her, and that she'd expand her dynamic range with Tarasova. Oh well, it's not about me anyway

 

[Jhar55]

1. Maybe some of it.

2. Not sure, too early to tell

3. Not with the NA judges, but maybe with the European

4. Yes

5. Yes

6. No. was just starting to appreacite her skating, so will be keeping an open mind.

 

[Nadine]

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her?

ME: yes, whatever it's supposed to be...btw I'm not being facetious...really would like to know?

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha?

ME: it remains to be seen, and it is up to Sasha to decide...

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha?

ME: no - period - they liked her before & they'll like her again.

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities?

ME: once again, it remains to be seen, and it is up to Sasha to decide...

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds?

ME: of course, she was never out of shape.

6. (For fans only) Has this affected your position on Sasha?

ME: yes, positively.

I must say that I was a bit surprised when I logged on after Christmas to discover that Sasha had switched to Robin .....pleasantly surprised btw ......b/c I, for one, have maintained throughout the season that TT has done nothing for Sasha (btw my sentiments were more blunt in the IFSC thread ). Sasha has always been phenomenal in terms of presentation.......she was before TT.......and she will be after TT (that's a given). What she's needed all along is consistency & upping her technical arsenal. And she was well on her way last season in terms of the latter ~ landed the beautifully executed 3T-.05R-3S at the 2002 Crest Pro-Am (along w/4 other clean triples, including a great attempt at the 3Z/3T w/only a minor cheat, fallout & 2foot on the 3T part) . And she didn't stop there, she had another great attempt w/the 3Z/3T at 2002 Trophee Lalique (minor cheat, fallout & 2foot on the 3T part along w/4 other clean triples), finally culminating w/success at the 2003 World Championships - landing, for the first time in competition, the 3Z/3T! Then next thing you know she shows up during the 2003/2004 season w/4 or 5 solo triples .....no combinations, no sequences, nada......just when she was making headway & progressing, she takes a huge step backwards IMHO. One doesn't maintain the combinations/sequences/et al one has worked so hard for unless one keeps it up - i.e. continuing to put it in one's programs (just ask Miki Ando, whom has been working on the 4S & 3Z/3R for a couple of seasons now & is starting to gain consistency on them). As to the former, i.e. consistency, hopefully Sasha will fare better w/Robin than she did w/TT.....though that's a hard one......b/c it has been my observation that one either has it or doesn't, though it can be improved to a certain degree. However, I don't agree that only doing 5 or 6 solo triples is suddenly going to make one magically consistent (aka what Sasha has been doing this season). Better to take one's chances while doing the harder programs (ala 3/3s) than the opposite, especially if one is inconsistent either way. JMHO.

Peace & Love (of course), Nadine

"With the brilliant red soaring wing rising toward the roof, she looked less like a skater than a blazing, mythological creature. She had become the Firebird---a thrusting, electric burst of primal energy. The skater, the moment, and the music had fused." - M.F. Thomson
http://homepage1.nifty.com/ando3/XmasStars2002/photo/miki_sp07.jpg

 

[Tonichelle]

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her?
Maybe, too soon to tell IMHO

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha?
If Sasha takes the time and LETS her, yes.

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha?
They shouldn't...

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities?
Again, too soon to tell...

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds?
She's out of shape?

6. (For fans only) Has this affected your position on Sasha?
n/a

 

[Ladskater]

After reading everyones' comments, I have given this more thought. The question will Robin be good for Sasha? I think she will. Observing Robin with Sarah during the Olympics she came across as a very caring person. I think maybe, Sasha needs this. Not that TT (sorry my Russian spelling of names is limited) was not a good change for her, but I think she had too many skaters to look after. I think Sasha will do well with someone who can concentrate on her skating. It will be interesting to see.

Let's hope Sasha does not follow in Nicole Bobeck's footsteps by changing coaches every fifteen minutes.

 

[Rgirl]

Nadine,
You raise a lot of excellent points, especially about being able to maintain difficult combos. But I think what happened with TT and Sasha this season was strategy with the COP. There was a lot more to be gained by doing a program with easier jumps with more difficult entrances, ie, footwork and a lot more to lose by trying a 3/3 and falling. There's also the opinion by some that doing jumps like quads and the more difficult 3/3s over several seasons put female skaters at such a risk of serious hip injury that they decide to forego practicing quads and 3/3s. I'm not saying we have enough data to say this is most likely the case; I'm just saying that some coaches are making this decision based on what they've seen.

When Sasha first went with TT I thought, "No! She needs a coach to work on her edges and technique! Her presentation is fine!" But I must say that this year with her performance of "Swan Lake" at Campbell's, which I saw live, I thought, "No, there was a lot Tarasova had to teach Sasha in terms of presentation." She had good presentation before, but this year she gained the presentation skills of a prima ballerina.

In the interview with Tarasova, the writer said, "If Sasha's jumps became serious problem, Tatiana would find person to fix jumps right away." With skaters like Kulik and Yags, who already had that great Russian jump technique, I think the "buffet" approach obviously worked well. But for Sasha, who I think has some motor program clashing because of her early start in gymnastics, I think her full-time coach needs to be a full-time jump specialist. Whether Wagner is or not is anybody's guess. Because of Sarah's growth spurt after working with Wagner, I think it's impossible to know whether the problems Sarah had with underrotating her 3/3s sometimes was due to Wagner or due to growing six inches. And one thing about Sarah, she virtually never fell. But again, as you said, it may be that you either have it or you don't.

Back to Joe's questions:

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her? Yes I think Sasha will retain a lot of what Tarasova taught her. TT seemed to teach her a lot of attitude and "soul" things, which in my experience stay with students more than technical things.

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha?
I have no idea. I think a lot depends on how much Galina LETS Robin do her job.

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha?
Nah. As others have said, skaters change coaches all the time. And for every judge who liked Tarasova, there was no doubt one who hated her.

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities?
Yes, along with Michelle's change to Artunian. If the media descend on Cohen and Wagner, that could make her skittish. Plus, there's no telling if Sasha and Robin will get along. If Sasha goes into Nationals all "fahtuzed" and Jenny skates like she did at SA, Sasha could be looking at the bronze or worse. It all depends on her head. Clearly she's physically capable of skating cleanly and wonderfully.

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds?
The two months could work for or against Cohen, depending on how she gets along with Wagner. Again, mind stuff.

6. (For fans only) Has this affected your position on Sasha?
No. But why is this question "For fans only"? Isn't it possible that this situation has affected someone's position on Sasha who is not a fan or perhaps neutral? But it's your questionnaire, Joe, so you can ask the questions anyway you want
Rgirl

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

rGirl - My poor wording again. What I meant by question 6, was a response only an avid fan of Sasha could answer. I was looking for an emotional response from the fan - not one based on the pros and cons of TT and RW.

When MK left Frank, my emoitional response was, "I am scared", I feel dissolute"; "I feel left out of the deciion". I was mystified.

Because of all this, I have been accostumed to using the phrase that "Michelle is an enigma" and I continue to feel that.

Joe

 

[lil_icesk8er915]

Joe-you always come up with great topics!

1. Will she retain whatever it was TT gave her?
Well I'm a little confused, but when I read the articles about Sasha changing coaches, it didn't really say that she was staying with Wagner permanently. (Unless I missed it!) It seemed to me that she is with Wagner temporarily until TT recovers.

2. Will Robin be good for Sasha?
Wow! I don't know, Sarah Hughes has such a different style than Sasha. But Sasha decided on Robin, so she must have good reason!

3. Will the judges look unfavorably to Sasha?
Judging in Figure Skating is so subjective, who knows!

4. Will the split really affect her Nationals possibilities?
Who knows!

5. Is there time for her to get into shape again for Worlds?
Who knows!

6. (For fans only) Has this affected your position on Sasha?
No. I admire her a lot, she is a wonderful skater!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

thanks for your kind words, lil...iceskater - The quiz didn't really need answers as much as things to think about.

And WHO KNOWS? . Only the Shadow knows. And if you know what I am talking about, you are as old as I am.

Joe