USOC / NBC Praise for Evan Lysacek

[Mathman]

I always prefer Jeff over Brian quad and all. I just can't get into Brian silly choreographer (spins, footwork) these days.

Yeah, Baboo went wrong years ago when he let Morozov talk him into trying to be Yagudin. He should have followed his own star and thrown out all the silly stuff. (Yags could get away with it, though.)

 

[seniorita]

since you all seem offtopic anyway, i just watched the battle of Brians, i had never watched orser 's sp and i rewatched the lp that i didnt remember, my jaw dropped, what was he doing there? he was so fast i thought it was something wrong with my pc, and he does gimmicks and so many things skaters dont do anymore, it is frustrating to see how much fs has changed for the worse since then, i wanted to cry (ok i m glad the costumes have evolved)! For all the artistry and pcs talk, he was doing stuff that in CoP would have been rewarded so much, Boitanno's programs looked more of technical to me, Orser lost because of a step out? Interesting that after these Olys they changed the tiebreaker rule and Orser would have won. Why he didnt add second 3axel, I checked and he did skate after Boitano.

 

[Mathman]

Brian Orser had bad luck. In 1984 he clearly outskated a lackluster Scott Hamilton and won both the short and the long programs. But Scott won the figures and the gold medal.

I don't know why Orser (the "Axel king") decided at the last minute to leave out one of his triple Axels. Maybe he did not watch Boitano's program and did not know what elements Boitano had done.

 

[FlattFan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSCr-A8T5qQ&feature=related

Orser's SP in 1988. The 3A is URed. 3A king?

 

[Blades of Passion]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSCr-A8T5qQ&feature=related

Orser's SP in 1988. The 3A is URed. 3A king?

It wasn't URed at all, what on Earth are you talking about?

 

[Blades of Passion]

But still...I don't think Evan had to try a quad just to show how manly he was or how brimming with the Olympic spirit. He just had to skate the best he could.

But that's the thing...he didn't try to skate the best he could. He purposefully attempted less than he was realistically capable of and not just because of the lack of a Quad, which is understandable given the downgrade rules of the time, there are other ways he could have increased the difficulty of his jump layout as he had done in the past. Sadly, it worked at 2009 Worlds and so that became the standard for the Olympic season.

Look at what happened at 2009 Four Continents - the judges gave Lysacek PCS of 74.7 in comparison to Patrick Chan's 80.1. They both only made 1 mistake technically so it wasn't like Lysacek was scored that much lower because of lots of mistakes in comparison to Chan skating perfectly. The judges were telling Lysacek "Patrick is a much better skater than you", and it was TRUE. That's what should have happened at the Olympics with Takahashi (and Kozuka) compared to Lysacek, but it didn't. In a more fair judging environment, where being the reigning World and GPF Champion shouldn't give you any kind of special bonus, Lysacek would have to push himself more technically in order to defeat other, better skaters.

 

[Mathman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSCr-A8T5qQ&feature=related

Orser's SP in 1988. The 3A is URed. 3A king?

Actually, I misspoke myself. Orser's official nickname was "Mr.Triple Axel." He was the first person to land a triple Axel at the Olympics, in 1984.

But that's the thing...he didn't try to skate the best he could. He purposefully attempted less than he was realistically capable of and not just because of the lack of a Quad, which is understandable given the downgrade rules of the time, there are other ways he could have increased the difficulty of his jump layout as he had done in the past.

What more could he have done? He did two 3A's, two 3Lz's, a 3F in combination, he did all the triples and only one 2A, three combinations including a triple Lz-triple toe.

Maybe he could have made it harder just for the sake of making it harder, but I think he did pretty much everything he could, to max out his points.

 

[Blades of Passion]

He could have done this:

3Lutz
3Axel
3Sal
-------
3Axel-3Toe
3Loop
3Flip-2Axel
3Lutz-2Toe-2Loop
2Axel

A much more exciting layout, and worth more points, without having to include a Quad. Granted, the layout Lysacek chose was the the one he could most consistently skate cleanly, but that layout shouldn't have been enough to win Gold when you consider the rest of his skills. Jumps are part of the choreography and Lysacek's jump layout didn't have any exciting moments. Brian Boitano's jumping layout from 1988 was more difficult than Lysacek's from 2010 because Boitano's 3-3 combination and second 3Axel were both MUCH later in the program than what Lysacek did in 2010.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Does anyone do the 3F-2A sequence?

 

[Bluebonnet]

People say not to dislike the skater but it was part of the Lysacek strategy to not do a quad which the last three people who won gold medals did. When after the short program he was only fractions away from the lead he was right in line for the gold mdedal he said no quad in the free skate. He could win and felt that it was much better to do the strategy of backloading rather than do a quad. His strategy for victory and layout of the program was all planned. His plan for victory was a quadless plan. He just did not care at all about the previous three winners and what they did. It is not that anybody who wins deserved to win or won in a good way for the sport. I don't think Lysacek was good at all for the sport of figure skating or the Olympics. Mishin and other people like Stojoko repeated that the Olympic motto was faster higher stronger. He does not define what a good Olympian is at all. The best American Olympian by far in my view was totally and completely was shaun White. Shaun White has his gold medal locked up. No one was going to beat Shaun White. He decided to do the hardest move ever because it was the Olympics. He didn't have to do it. He already won Gold. Shaun White is what defines the olympics. IN figure skating that move is the quad. Lysaceks win and strategy for winning remains depressing.

This sounds very reasonable to me.

Figure skating is not about rotating in the air. It is about blades on ice.

It is not all about blades on ice. It's defined as a sport. Therefore, rotating in the air is so important because it's the most important measure of one's athletism.

Just found something in your write, so I could exercise my "expertise".

Evan is like everyone else -- trying to make his way through this vale of tears as best he can.

True. But that doesn't mean that he's well representing the Olympic spirit and doesn't mean that he's a role model.

I remember the 2002 games and without placing any blame - the skating controversy really hurt the the ISU and even the Olympic movement here in N. America. I respect Evan for the way he avoided controversy.

I was wondering why topics regarding Evan's Olympic win were so hot? The reason is that by choosing not doing the hardest jump and seeking other ways to compensate it, Evan has put himself in the center of a controversy. This win was so controversial that people would talk about him heatedly for the years to come.

I think fans who love quads can be happy that ISU has boosted the value for this season.

Obviously Evan's win has reached another hight of the controversy. ISU has had no choice, willingly or not, they have to do something in order to avoid the same kind of win happening in the future.:thumbsup:

 

[Blades of Passion]

Does anyone do the 3F-2A sequence?

Evan himself did it at 2010 Nationals. Ashley Wagner. One or two other people. Tons of people did it on the end of easier Triples or with another double axel. Ironically, it's worth more points to do a 2Axel in sequence with the easiest jump of your program, because then only the easiest jump gets hit with the "sequence penalty". So, actually, Evan probably should have done a 2A-2A sequence if he did change his program to include a more difficult 3A combination (as should anyone who had an open combination slot, given that they are consistent enough with it).

Thankfully, doing a 2Loop in combination is more attractive with the new rules. Although, you still get the same amount of points for tacking that 2Loop onto the end of a 2Axel as you do, say, a 3Lutz. And a 2Axel-2Axel sequence is still actually the best in terms of the base value of points, by a slight margin. So that part of the CoP still needs tweaking.

 

[Krislite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSCr-A8T5qQ&feature=related

Orser's SP in 1988. The 3A is URed. 3A king?

Look at the slow-mo replay after the program (begins at 3:40). He clearly completed the third revolution while his feet was still several inches in the air. If that 3A was under-rotated, then Flatt never executed a real triple in her life.

 

[seniorita]

I don't know why Orser (the "Axel king") decided at the last minute to leave out one of his triple Axels. Maybe he did not watch Boitano's program and did not know what elements Boitano had done.

Orser looks amazing in the clips, really why skaters dont do tricks anymore,and his feet fly, if Orser's program was under CoP he would have taken 10 in pcs, especially transitions but I think if i was watching at those days, Boitano would have been my fav type of skater, the way he poses himself, his power skating, his jumps and how he projects to the audience, i now like more his sp than his lp which i liked anyway!

 

[janetfan]

True. But that doesn't mean that he's well representing the Olympic spirit and doesn't mean that he's a role model.



I was wondering why topics regarding Evan's Olympic win were so hot? The reason is that by choosing not doing the hardest jump and seeking other ways to compensate it, Evan has put himself in the center of a controversy. This win was so controversial that people would talk about him heatedly for the years to come.



Obviously Evan's win has reached another hight of the controversy. ISU has had no choice, willingly or not, they have to do something in order to avoid the same kind of win happening in the future.:thumbsup:

Evan's own Olympic committee has declared him a role model. You couldn't be more wrong.

Evan's win will be remembered and Plushy's incredibly poor sportsmanship will not be forgotten. That's the way it is and your views seem much different than the reality of what happened.

The United States Olympic committee would never honor the type of behavior the whole world saw from Plushy.
Your comments are ridiculous here as we just saw the USOC honor Evan.

Please, you are entitled to your opinions but not your own facts.

 

[seniorita]

Evan's win will be remembered and Plushy's incredibly poor sportsmanship will not be forgotten. That's the way it is and your views seem much different than the reality of what happened.

Please, you are entitled to your opinions but not your own facts.

good thing is that you answer on your own, spares me time

 

[janetfan]

good thing is that you answer on your own, spares me time

Always glad to make you laugh....now please answer the question I just asked over at the Plushy reinstatement thread

 

[iluvtodd]

I'm not here to add to the controversy, but I do feel that Evan conducted himself admirably at the Olympics. I've enjoyed Plushy's skating for years, but I was quite disappointed in his attitude at the Olympics. IMHO, he acted as if he was "entitled" to win the OGM.

I don't want to get into the quad issue, but I am a firm believer that quads are NOT everything in figure skating.

 

[seniorita]

it is not everything otherwise Reynolds or Schultheiss (yes please ) would have won all competitions but from my observation sometimes people who debate against the quad not being everything argue like the skater does just a quad and then sits down on the ice and read a newspaper.

 

[janetfan]

I'm not here to add to the controversary, but I do feel that Evan conducted himself admirably at the Olympics. I've enjoyed Plushy's skating for years, but I was quite disappointed in his attitude at the Olympics. IMHO, he acted as if he was "entitled" to win the OGM.

I don't want to get into the quad issue, but I am a firm believer that quads are NOT everything in figure skating.

I think Plushy fans are showing their true colors. We all heard how Putin invited Plushy to dinner and what is wrong with that?
He is a legendary skater but even legends sometimes get beaten.

This thread was about the USOC being proud of the way Evan conducted himself. Some Johnny fans unfortunately are crushed by Evan's success but this is not about winning or losing but how you handle yourself afterwards. Like the way Johnny handled his disappointing scores in Vancouver with such good sportsmanship

It is done, and petty and bitter opinions can't change anything here. The USOC made it a point to praise Evan. Some of the reactions I am reading here are EXACTLY what the USOC was talking about, my own posts included.

Bad sportsmanship is not an admirable quality at the Olympics. Being as gracious as Evan was is admirable and will be remembered and will serve as a role model for future US athletes.

Trash him all you want but it doesn't change a thing. Evan won and he behaved very well afterwards. The other guy lost and acted like the "villain" we saw in the NBC promos, the one who said "I must destroy my enemies."

Maybe that is admirable behavior in Russian sporting culture and this is just another pesty "cultural difference."

If so I much prefer American sporting culture.

 

[seniorita]

Regarding the nbc notorious video, with the montage and dark colors of Batman, yes sure it was for large consumption of popcorn. Evgeni is not native in english, if you have listened 1000 interview of him, you see he repeats same words and phrases over the years because he has a limited vocabulary, I ve heard the word enemy from him in tallin and it was obvious he meant the competitors, anyway different cultures as you said.
But it is unfair that Plushy steals Lysacek's thunder in his own thread, I said it some pages ago that it is clear he is the bad boy, we don't need repetition, but you rushed to tell me off!

now please answer the question I just asked over at the Plushy reinstatement thread

i really don't know why he asked now, i m not that clever to have the answer to everything, ask mathman.