Was it one of the most predictable Olympics ever in Turin?

[Mathman]

Yes, although in the SP Asada did edge her out in the tech scores. In the LP she finished fourth behind Suguri, Onda and Asada.

I guess the pressure of really strong competition got to her. In the Olympics, maybe she saw what Sasha did in the LP and she knew how Slutskaya's practices were going, so she could relax.

In her GP events it was the other way around, BTW. At both the Cup of China and the Eric Bompard she was only third in the SP, then pulled up to second in the Free (but still third overall).

 

[Jaana]

I have a vague remembrance that didn´t the Japanese Federation wish that the skaters are not doing too well at the 2005 Worlds or in that pre-Olympic season? That was a good strategy and worked perfectly for Shizuka. Not too much pressure and more just her own determination to do well at the Olympics. She managed to peak exactly at the time it counted most.

 

[Mathman]

That's what the head of the Japanese delegation said at the time. As I recall, it was more like, we'll bomb at Moscow on purpose so we can fly under the radar and sneak up on people at Torino. I couldn't (and still can't) believe that this was seriously their strategy.

But like you say, it worked!

(The Detroit Tigers are using the same strategy in the World series. They deliberately blew two of the first three games -- look out now!)

 

[chuckm]

I think the Japanese Federation said that in 2005 as a face-saving device. Although 3 Japanese ladies (Shizuka, Miki and Yoshie) had made it to the GPF, Shizuka finished a distant second to Slute at the GPF and Miki and Yoshie brought up the rear in 5th and 6th. Shizuka had to withdraw from the 2005 Japanese Nationals FS because of a huge blister on her foot (she had been having major boot problems all season). Miki won the title, followed by Mao Asada and Fumie Suguri, who had had a dismal GP, finishing 6th in both her events.

It was fairly plain that Irina Slutskaya was going to romp in Moscow, hence the cover story. As it turned out, Fumie and Miki were 5th and 6th at 2005 Worlds, and Shizuka was 9th.

 

[Mathman]

On the subject of unpredictability, actually I think the 2002 Olympics has to be right up there.

In men’s, it turned out more or less how it was expected in the end, but who would have thought that Plushenko would take himself out of the running in the short program, leaving Yagudin to coast home unopposed?

In ladies, Irina was probably slightly favored over Michelle. For bronze, Sasha seemed a better bet than Sarah, especially after the short program. Didn’t work out that way.

In pairs, Berezhnaya and Sikharudlidze maybe had a small edge over Sale and Pelletiere going in. Who could have predicted a scenario where they would both end up with gold medals?

Dance went to the favorites, but Lobacheva and Averbuhk gave them a run for their money. It all came down to whether the conspirators could keep their cheat on when everything fell apart.

 

[chuckm]

Dance went to the favorites, but Lobacheva and Averbuhk gave them a run for their money. It all came down to whether the conspirators could keep their cheat on when everything fell apart.

I didn't much like A/P's Martin Luther FD, but L/A's FD was even more objectionable. L/A were never close competitors to A/P and weren't in SLC. What happened there was the French judge squealed, so the "deal" went south and the vote(s) that had been promised to A/P went to L/A in revenge.

 

[gio]

I was surprised that Shizuka won, but also very happy, because I really liked her free skate (less her SP). But I have to say that I was 99% sure that Irina would have won. It was also the first time that I really liked both her programs. IMO even if she isn't the best at choreoghraphy, this energic style suits her. The only other program of Irina that I love, was her 2002 SP on Schubert music.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Yes, although in the SP Asada did edge her out in the tech scores. In the LP she finished fourth behind Suguri, Onda and Asada.

I guess the pressure of really strong competition got to her. In the Olympics, maybe she saw what Sasha did in the LP and she knew how Slutskaya's practices were going, so she could relax.

In her GP events it was the other way around, BTW. At both the Cup of China and the Eric Bompard she was only third in the SP, then pulled up to second in the Free (but still third overall).

Wow even Yoshie Onda beat her in the long program at Nationals. She really must have had alot of problems them since Yoshie is not even close to being a top group skater internationaly(or even in Japan arguably)for awhile now.

In her 2 GP events Arakawa lost 2nd place both times because of her triple flip in the short being downgraded to a double in the short. I cant believe that can happen to a skater twice, had that only happened once even she would have been in the GP final. It is amazing you could have that happen to you twice in a row.

The reason she probably does not do the 3/3s much anymore in competition, since COP started, is she often cheated them before, in fact as I said above she sometimes has a bad happen to cheat even her solo jumps.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I didn't much like A/P's Martin Luther FD, but L/A's FD was even more objectionable. L/A were never close competitors to A/P and weren't in SLC. What happened there was the French judge squealed, so the "deal" went south and the vote(s) that had been promised to A/P went to L/A in revenge.

I totally agree with you on the bolded part. That is exactly what happened.

I was surprised to see afterwords Yuri Balkov was one of the 5 judges to vote for the French in fact. Considering that judge was one of the deciding votes, the French were lucky to not be screwed out of the gold in the end.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I didn't much like A/P's Martin Luther FD, but L/A's FD was even more objectionable. L/A were never close competitors to A/P and weren't in SLC. What happened there was the French judge squealed, so the "deal" went south and the vote(s) that had been promised to A/P went to L/A in revenge.

Anissina/Peizerat lost one 1st place ordinal in each of the CDs, both the Fusar-Poli/Margoglio. They lost one to Lobacheva/Averbukh in the OD.

In the FD, they lost four 1st place ordinals to Lobacheva/Averbukh. According to the ISU results page for the FD, the judges who awarded them were:

Shekhovtseva, Wehinger, Wolter, Zaccaro.

The judges who gave first-place ordinals to Anissina/Peizerat were:

Gasiorowska, Nechkina (who was kicked off the judges roster in February, 2006), Karnolska, Balkov, and Gordon-Poltorak.

Although the ISU site lists each judge as "ISU," web searches indicate that the judges used to judge under these countries are from:

L/A 1st: RUS, SUI, GER, ITA

A/P 1st: LTU, AZE, BUL, UKR, POL.

With that split, and with the Russian judge unable to vote for A/P without raising big suspicions, regardless of what she thought of the performance, I'm not so sure the deal went south. But I can imagine the Italians being angry at Fusar-Poli/Margoglio's placement, although I don't know how the German and Swiss judges figure in this. (They had no competitive skaters in any discipline.)

 

[chuckm]

I don't know why the Italians should have been angry at FP-M's placement. Maurizio FELL during their horrid "I Will Survive" FD, and they should have been happy that FP-M won a medal at all.

 

[slutskayafan21]

The interviews I read of the Italians indicated they were upset with how they were judged in the CD and OD mostly in 2002. Not that I agree with them on that either.

 

[JonnyCoop]

I didn't much like A/P's Martin Luther FD, but L/A's FD was even more objectionable. L/A were never close competitors to A/P and weren't in SLC. What happened there was the French judge squealed, so the "deal" went south and the vote(s) that had been promised to A/P went to L/A in revenge.

While I TOTALLY agree with the Fusar-Poli/Margaglio comment (as in they were lucky to get a medal at all with that horrid free dance; we can only HOPE that the only reason they did was because Bourne & Kraatz made an even bigger [IMO] mistake), I have to respectfully at least partially disagree with part of the above. I didn't care much for A/P's free dance either (incorporating the speech into it was just cheesy and made the whole thing come off as unnecessarily heavy-handed), BUT -- I have to say, re. Lobacheva/Averbukh -- I never liked them at all, but even I was amazed at how well they skated in SLC. What I had a problem with was that THEY got a 6 in the OD, whereas A/P, who put on one of the most BRILLIANT OD's I have ever seen, didn't.

 

[hockeyfan228]

The interviews I read of the Italians indicated they were upset with how they were judged in the CD and OD mostly in 2002. Not that I agree with them on that either.

I think it was more a matter of the way the 2001 World Champions were dropped like lead during the season run-up to the Olympics, more than the way they skated in SLC. If there was a deal to make A/P Olympics champs, I suspect they'd be seething, because, at worst, they'd expect to have been the true contenders for the title.

Given that the ISU gave a big warning about how the FD's had become heavy-handed and that the teams should go back to dance music, and how A/P and L/A's FD's were about as heavy-handed as they come, if I were B/K or F-P/M, I would feel like the ISU pulled a bait-and-switch. At least both couples danced.

 

[Mafke]

Given that the ISU gave a big warning about how the FD's had become heavy-handed and that the teams should go back to dance music, and how A/P and L/A's FD's were about as heavy-handed as they come, if I were B/K or F-P/M, I would feel like the ISU pulled a bait-and-switch. At least both couples danced.

Yeah, I'm not into Ice Dance so maybe I was missing some subtle points, but can anyone can point out any dancing at all in that A/P program?
I liked L/A marginally more, the Italians did really dance but had the same problem that they'd always had (she was much better than he was, the fall was because she started speeding and he couldn't keep up) and B/K were the judges' bitches- there to be slapped around so that other teams would tow the lie.

 

[Mafke]

there to be slapped around so that other teams would tow the lie.

I meant 'tow the line' but 'tow the lie' doesn't seem out of place somehow...

 

[slutskayafan21]

I think it was more a matter of the way the 2001 World Champions were dropped like lead during the season run-up to the Olympics, more than the way they skated in SLC. If there was a deal to make A/P Olympics champs, I suspect they'd be seething, because, at worst, they'd expect to have been the true contenders for the title.

Given that the ISU gave a big warning about how the FD's had become heavy-handed and that the teams should go back to dance music, and how A/P and L/A's FD's were about as heavy-handed as they come, if I were B/K or F-P/M, I would feel like the ISU pulled a bait-and-switch. At least both couples danced.

Well I never agreed with their 2001 World title in the first place, but I dont want to get into an extensive discussion about that, and I would never expect them to take that point of view anyway so regarding their views at the time of the 2002 Olympics it would already be moot. As for their 2001-2002 season they won their GP events, at the 2002 GP final they looked very unprepared and rusty and if they themselves did not recognize that in the aftermath, then they were in a bit of denial. I understood their 4th place there. They looked better at the Europeans and were rewarded with better results, were a pretty close 2nd behind Anissina/Peizerat, winning 1 of the 2 compulsory dances, and winning a couple judges from the French in every segment of the event. They easily beat both Lobacheva/Averubuhk(returning from injury)and Drobiazko/Vanagas(who beat them at the GP final)at these Europeans.

As for the content of the free dances I agree with you that the Italians and B/K had much more dance oriented routines as opposed to the heavy-handed work of the French and Russians. That being said the program still had far too much two footed skating, and very poor skating technique from Maurizio was there throughout the whole program, even before the fall.

 

[gio]

Barbara and Maurizio were always good at Compulsory and at the Original and less good at Free Dance. In 2001, Peizerat complained that a dance team can't win just because they're good at compulsories and at the original dance and then bomb at Free Dance. But it is also true that the origins of Ice Dance are from ballroom.

 

[JonnyCoop]

Given that the ISU gave a big warning about how the FD's had become heavy-handed and that the teams should go back to dance music, and how A/P and L/A's FD's were about as heavy-handed as they come, if I were B/K or F-P/M, I would feel like the ISU pulled a bait-and-switch. At least both couples danced.

Fusar-Poli did say at some point, "This season we were told by the ISU to please do a dance and not a drama, so we did that, as did the Canadians. But the dramas were scored higher." So I can see her getting annoyed about that, nonetheless, maybe had they come up with a BETTER DANCE.... That being said, I wasn't wild about Bourne & Kraatz's either, I actually liked Navka & Kostamorov's Michael Jackson dance better.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Well I never agreed with their 2001 World title in the first place, but I dont want to get into an extensive discussion about that, and I would never expect them to take that point of view anyway so regarding their views at the time of the 2002 Olympics it would already be moot.

When I said "The Italians" I meant the judges and Italian Federation officials who had the clout to give a first-place ordinal to L/A out of spite (not that there's any proof they did), not F-P/M specifically. When a skater/team is given a title, and not as a result of a splat-fest (where they recognize that if the other skaters were their usual selves and skated clean programs, they wouldn't have won), it sends a message that they are the best.