Who coined "Ice Princess" term?

[Ares]

... and when?


I am curious as I saw this term being applied to skaters mostly from USA, with Nancy Kerrigan being the earliest one & Michelle Kwan being her heir in that place even though they were very different skaters. I noticed that "ice princess" or "princessy" is sometimes used in derogatory ways. What is your view on "ice princess" thing and what's your definition of it? I fathom that is about skaters who skate to classical / soundtrack music, keep great attention to dress / make up etc and who care for their positive PR so they skirt from speaking their mind sometimes too ... Is there "ice prince" too by chance?

 

[louisa05]

Wherever it came from, it seems to be applied to any female skater that the person using it deems "too feminine" in any way whether it is in choice of music, dress or hairstyle. And it never seems to be used without a derogatory or insulting tone.

For that reason, I find it terribly misogynistic as the implication seems to be that women who choose traditionally feminine styles are less than and to be insulted.

It needs to go away.

 

[Barb]

Wherever it came from, it seems to be applied to any female skater that the person using it deems "too feminine" in any way whether it is in choice of music, dress or hairstyle. And it never seems to be used without a derogatory or insulting tone.

For that reason, I find it terribly misogynistic as the implication seems to be that women who choose traditionally feminine styles are less than and to be insulted.

It needs to go away.

I have used this term and never with an intention derogatory or insulting.

 

[andromache]

Wherever it came from, it seems to be applied to any female skater that the person using it deems "too feminine" in any way whether it is in choice of music, dress or hairstyle. And it never seems to be used without a derogatory or insulting tone.

For that reason, I find it terribly misogynistic as the implication seems to be that women who choose traditionally feminine styles are less than and to be insulted.

It needs to go away.

Agree that it always seems to be used negatively, either against a skater or against a coach/choreographer (usually Frank and Lori).

It's an unneeded generalization used to label skaters or a style of packaging without actually looking at what they are doing.

 

[louisa05]

If I were you, I would still think twice about using it. What do you intend by it? And how does that intention reflect on women? Why do you think the term is okay? Do you mean it to be a bad thing? If so, that is derogatory. Do you mean it to be a compliment? If so, why not find a way of saying that that cannot be interpreted as derogatory.

The implication always seems to be that it is not okay to be too girly, too sparkly or too traditional.How is that not derogatory? How is that not saying that there is something inherently wrong with appearing too feminine? There is no equivalent term applied to male skaters who are "too manly" or too anything at all.

Other than references to royalty, there is no usage of "princess" in our culture that is not rather demeaning. The Urban Dictionary defines it as a woman or girl who is sheltered and spoiled. If we go to the fairy tale interpretation, the connotation is also of one who is spoiled, sheltered and additionally rather helpless.

We need to simply stop referring to these very strong young women with a term that has negative and demeaning connotations. Unless an actual royal princess competes, no one needs to be called one.

 

[Barb]

If I were you, I would still think twice about using it. What do you intend by it? And how does that intention reflect on women? Why do you think the term is okay? Do you mean it to be a bad thing? If so, that is derogatory. Do you mean it to be a compliment? If so, why not find a way of saying that that cannot be interpreted as derogatory.

The implication always seems to be that it is not okay to be too girly, too sparkly or too traditional.How is that not derogatory? How is that not saying that there is something inherently wrong with appearing too feminine? There is no equivalent term applied to male skaters who are "too manly" or too anything at all.

Other than references to royalty, there is no usage of "princess" in our culture that is not rather demeaning. The Urban Dictionary defines it as a woman or girl who is sheltered and spoiled. If we go to the fairy tale interpretation, the connotation is also of one who is spoiled, sheltered and additionally rather helpless.

We need to simply stop referring to these very strong young women with a term that has negative and demeaning connotations. Unless an actual royal princess competes, no one needs to be called one.

I really never thought too much in the correct meaning of the term. I used it indiscriminately for a style delicate, paying exteme attention to details and lines. But it is good to know that the term is interpreted as offensive. I will not use it anymore.

 

[Jennifer Lyon]

I have heard the term "ice princess" applied to Sonja Henie, although it was always in a skating history context. I don't know if anyone actually referred to Sonja as an ice princess during her skating career. "America's sweetheart" is another term with a similar meaning that is often used for female skaters who fit a certain image.

 

[Mathman]

I don't think it means much of anything, to tell the truth. Outside of figure skating it refers to a woman who is beautiful and desirable, but a cold fish.

Jackson Haines was the "American Ice Prince" in the 19th century.

In ladies' ice skating I think it just means "skating royalty," in the sense of being the current top ... um ... dog. Michelle Kwan was not an Ice Princess because she was the Kween.

I agree with Jennifer Lyon in guessing that Sonja Henie was called that in her day. (Besides being the "Nasturtium of the North.")

 

[ice coverage]

I have used this term and never with an intention derogatory or insulting.

In fairness to chapis, I will mention:

Gracie Gold has said that when she first became aware -- as a young teen -- that she was being called an "ice princess," she did not realize that the phrase could have negative connotations.
I don't remember Gracie's exact comments, but the general drift was along the lines that she associated "princess" with positive qualities -- elegance, refinement, beauty, etc.
She took the "ice" part simply to be a reference that she is a skater. Not as a reference to "coldness" in the sense of "lack of genuine feeling/emotion."

It was a wake-up call for her when she came to realize that some people were using the term as a form of criticism against her .

I "get" that the negative connotations are common on GS and elsewhere.

But I don't agree with berating someone who has not been accustomed to the negative connotations or who does not buy into the negative connotations.
I am not a Gracie groupie, and I can't remember which interview had the type of reflections from her above, but my heart did go out to her.
She previously had been spared the experience of having her nose rubbed in unkind words that in other contexts would not be associated with mockery.

In the real world outside of skating, I don't think "princess" inherently is a negative word (although some people do choose to use it in a negative way).

I was not a Princess Diana groupie either, but I think much of her popularity stemmed from the perception that she had a warm and compassionate heart -- being on the forefront of reaching out to those with HIV, for example. She also had a glamorous side -- wearing fashionable clothes, for example. She was the epitome of a princess who was admired for being beautiful on the inside -- as well as the outside.

Even in 2017, I think some young brides (smart, strong human beings) still say that they want a "fairy-tale" wedding and that they want to look like a "princess."

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

OP, the term had been used long before Kerrigan.

AFWIW-I personally hate the term.

 

[NanaPat]

There is a reality show in Slice TV called "Princess", and the term is definitely derogatory in that context.

Each episode features a woman who is characterized as shallow, selfish, and greedy. The host, Gail Vaz-Oxlade, attempts to either teach them about budgeting and money management or mock them for their profligate ways, depending on your point of view. Maybe she does both. The amazing thing is that people agree to be on the show, knowing what it is about, for money (a payment of up to $5,000) and "fame".

 

[gmyers]

While they were competing Peggy Fleming was called a princess. AP reporter will Grimsley called Dorothy hamill a "golden ice princess." I can't find a princess and tenley Albright match.

 

[Globetrotter]

I think the term started out as a positive term. In later years, you have other ladies coming along to challenge what the classical image of a lady skater is like. Usually there is a contrasting rivalry. Example, Debi Thomas vs Katarina Witt, Midori Ito vs Kristi Yamaguchi, then Tonya Harding vs Nancy Kerrigan, Surya Bonaly vs Oksana Baiul. Generally, it has been a case of a powerful, athletic lady vs the more presentation, artistry and choreo defined, more classic skater. To a lesser extent, that was how Michelle Kwan was eventually stacked up against Irina Slutskaya. The athletic ones can out tech the classical ones but often get hit on the presentation score during 6.0. Ito's tremendously powerful and athletic skating with strong edges and transitions didn't always find favor for instance. She would have been unbeatable under CoP. I don't think the term ice princess per se is negative. I have found that the true negative is when a lady is being made into an all American sweetheart when she really isn't that sort derp down - I always felt that was what did it in for Gracie Gold.

 

[lappo]

I think the term started out as a positive term. In later years, you have other ladies coming along to challenge what the classical image of a lady skater is like. Usually there is a contrasting rivalry. Example, Debi Thomas vs Katarina Witt, Midori Ito vs Kristi Yamaguchi, then Tonya Harding vs Nancy Kerrigan, Surya Bonaly vs Oksana Baiul. Generally, it has been a case of a powerful, athletic lady vs the more presentation, artistry and choreo defined, more classic skater. To a lesser extent, that was how Michelle Kwan was eventually stacked up against Irina Slutskaya. The athletic ones can out tech the classical ones but often get hit on the presentation score during 6.0. Ito's tremendously powerful and athletic skating with strong edges and transitions didn't always find favor for instance. She would have been unbeatable under CoP. I don't think the term ice princess per se is negative. I have found that the true negative is when a lady is being made into an all American sweetheart when she really isn't that sort derp down - I always felt that was what did it in for Gracie Gold.

I agree with this but, as a non native English speaker, I find that this is almost always used in a derogatory way to describe ladies who are perceived as "too feminine" (pretty dresses, big smile and soft/not powerful music). While I fully agree with you that a skater should not be molded to fit this style if it's doesn't come natural to her (or any other style for the matter, Gracie is an apt example) I'm a bit pissed off when the term is used to criticize skaters who seem to be naturally fitting this mold, provided that they like it and find themselves comfortable with it and I feel there is no need from all of us to call them names just because they don't fit whatever image of a lady skater we have in mind.

 

[LiamForeman]

The term has different meanings. Chris Evert in her early years was known as the Ice Queen, because she had nerves of steel and never showed her emotions. Ice Princess in skating probably has a slightly bitchy tone, reflecting a skater who is overly made up wrt hair, costuming, music. The only one I can think of is Gracie Gold. Possibly Polina Edmunds with that awful packaging for GWTW.

 

[louisa05]

I agree with this but, as a non native English speaker, I find that this is almost always used in a derogatory way to describe ladies who are perceived as "too feminine" (pretty dresses, big smile and soft/not powerful music). While I fully agree with you that a skater should not be molded to fit this style if it's doesn't come natural to her (or any other style for the matter, Gracie is an apt example) I'm a bit pissed off when the term is used to criticize skaters who seem to be naturally fitting this mold, provided that they like it and find themselves comfortable with it and I feel there is no need from all of us to call them names just because they don't fit whatever image of a lady skater we have in mind.

I feel like I say this 50 times a year per skating forum, but have you seen photos of Gracie off ice? Over the top hair and make-up and sparkles and glitter and very feminine dressing comes completely naturally to her. It is her. She wears that same lipstick off the ice. I'm not sure why fans have created some uber-athletic never ever remotely girly personality for her because there is no evidence that is her at all. The only thing I can think is that when she is on she has powerful jumps, but big powerful jumps don't require a female skater to suddenly be strutting around all macho like Elvis Stojko. Nor does it require them to not like traditionally female things. Her jumps and her personality do not have to match.

 

[lappo]

I feel like I say this 50 times a year per skating forum, but have you seen photos of Gracie off ice? Over the top hair and make-up and sparkles and glitter and very feminine dressing comes completely naturally to her. It is her. She wears that same lipstick off the ice. I'm not sure why fans have created some uber-athletic never ever remotely girly personality for her because there is no evidence that is her at all. The only thing I can think is that when she is on she has powerful jumps, but big powerful jumps don't require a female skater to suddenly be strutting around all macho like Elvis Stojko. Nor does it require them to not like traditionally female things. Her jumps and her personality do not have to match.

You're right that she seems quite a girly girl also outside the ice and, as I don't know Gracie Gold and her personal feelings, it's wrong from my part to assume that she is forced to present herself in a way she doesn't like. And you are right that big jumps don't require her to skate like Stojko (just think of Yuna Kim 2010 FP, but there are countless other examples). However, for some reasons that I cannot even explain, sometimes watching GG I found myself thinking that there was dissonance between herself and her skating - again, it's only a perception but since I joined the forum I read that several people feel the same. That said, I wish GG to overcome her personal problems and I'm looking forward to see what Marina and her team will bring out for her.

 

[Ares]

I really never thought too much in the correct meaning of the term. I used it indiscriminately for a style delicate, paying exteme attention to details and lines. But it is good to know that the term is interpreted as offensive. I will not use it anymore.

I don't think that this term is offensive, it's how some use it to dismiss, undermine or ridicule certain things, phenomenon or skaters that can come off as offensive to some.

 

[louisa05]

You're right that she seems quite a girly girl also outside the ice and, as I don't know Gracie Gold and her personal feelings, it's wrong from my part to assume that she is forced to present herself in a way she doesn't like. And you are right that big jumps don't require her to skate like Stojko (just think of Yuna Kim 2010 FP, but there are countless other examples). However, for some reasons that I cannot even explain, sometimes watching GG I found myself thinking that there was dissonance between herself and her skating - again, it's only a perception but since I joined the forum I read that several people feel the same. That said, I wish GG to overcome her personal problems and I'm looking forward to see what Marina and her team will bring out for her.

She never connects well with her music. I would not say this is a problem with the music, either. Some skaters just don't do that. I suspect that music is not her thing other than casually listening to some pop music as teens do. I know people who love music, understand it (have some musical background like band or choir in school or have learned an instrument at some point outside of school) and seek it out. I also know people who like it, listen casually, but don't have any understanding of it or seek it out all that much. I would bet Gracie is in the latter group and that is part of the reason she just doesn't connect with or express the music when she is skating.

That doesn't mean that the music is not a good fit for her as it may mean that it is going to be hard to get her to connect to any music as a performer. And, yes, I know she looks more comfortable with her exhibition pieces. But I will always maintain that is nothing to do with the music and everything to do with not being judged. It should be clear by now that Gracie has issues with anxiety and nerves when competing. At Nationals in the group warm-up before the free skate, she did a beautiful triple right in front of our section. Textbook. A woman sitting near us declared that "Gracie is on" and all would be well. We know how that turned out.

 

[Rissa]

I find the princess style boring, always have. That's why I wasn't a fan of Ladies' skating in the past, too many princesses who blurred together and they all looked the same-y.