Who will break Yuna Kim's record and when?

[Li'Kitsu]

^Evgenia beat the overall WR at the Team Challenge Cup
Thank god those scores don't count.

Yeah, and because the scores don't count, Yuna still has the overall WR and it's still the question who will beat it. Evgenia is the most likely candidate, but this is figure skating, it's definitely not set in stone.

The LP record was the only one that counted until Evgenia broke it. Then the "overall" record became the only one that mattered.

Is that supposed to make this thread/discussion seem a bit anti-Evgenia or am I imagining things? As a general reaction, obviously people would talk about breaking the LP record first, because it kind of has to come first before you can break the overall one (especially in Evgenias case, since her scores indicated all season that she was closer to breaking the LP WR than the SP one). I'm not getting your point, I'm afraid.

 

[Mathman]

Is that supposed to make this thread/discussion seem a bit anti-Evgenia or am I imagining things? ... I'm not getting your point, I'm afraid.

I took jenaj's comment as pro-Evgenia. That is, we keep rolling back the finish line on her. If she breaks this record, we tend to say, "oh yeah, well she didn't break that one." Then when she breaks that one, well, she didn't break the next one.

 

[Khoai]

I haven't done any calculation, but if I remember it correctly. Miss Medvedeva wouldn't have broken Miss Kim's WR had her flutz had been called deservingly?

 

[Li'Kitsu]

^ Yes.

I took jenaj's comment as pro-Evgenia. That is, we keep rolling back the finish line on her. If she breaks this record, we tend to say, "oh yeah, well she didn't break that one." Then when she breaks that one, well, she didn't break the next one.

Than I'm afraid I worded it wrongly - I interpreted jenaj's comment the same way you did. But I meant the way she says it sounds like she thinks the mentioning of the overall record (specifically like I did) was "anti-Evgenia". Intention-expression-fail I guess

 

[petitebrie]

I haven't done any calculation, but if I remember it correctly. Miss Medvedeva wouldn't have broken Miss Kim's WR had her flutz had been called deservingly?

The previous high score was beaten by 0.04 points, an edge call entails a BV reduction of 1.8 plus negative GOE, so you're right. If it had been '!' there is no obligatory reduction in base value and GOE is at the judges' discretion. However, with such a small margin, a single judge giving her a +1 instead of a +2, or a +2 instead of a +3, on the 3Lz would have brought it under. She still would have won though, even with an edge call.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

The PCS gap isn't that big between Mao and Evgenia. It's the TES/GOE gap she has to bridge, and it's a huge one. Like I said, more than 50% of Yuna's and Evgenia's record scores were comprised of TES points, not PCS.

You're right. Looking at the scores there isn't that much room for Mao to score a lot higher than Evgenia. It's a pity that Mao's planned BV is so much higher than everyone else yet she never comes close to maximizing her TES scores like Yuna and Evgenia do.

 

[solani]

You're right. Looking at the scores there isn't that much room for Mao to score a lot higher than Evgenia. It's a pity that Mao's planned BV is so much higher than everyone else yet she never comes close to maximizing her TES scores like Yuna and Evgenia do.

Sometimes I think that Mao is focusing on all the wrong things jump wise. It felt as if she was trying to fix her lutz the whole season when she'd better worked on her 3T. Because she really needs a consistent 3T in combination. She could do 3 in 1 competition and she only has to do 1 lutz anyway. And I think that those tight landings affect her PCS also.

 

[narcissa]

Sometimes I think that Mao is focusing on all the wrong things jump wise. It felt as if she was trying to fix her lutz the whole season when she'd better worked on her 3T. Because she really needs a consistent 3T in combination. She could do 3 in 1 competition and she only has to do 1 lutz anyway. And I think that those tight landings affect her PCS also.

And her consistency with maybe landing the triple axel, maybe not, is SERIOUSLY limiting her PCS, I think. I feel like judges will lowball you on PCS if they're constantly on edge about whether you'll land your jumps. The beginning of every Mao program is like a "dun dun dun, will she do it? 3...2...1...." moment.

If she had Evgenia-level consistency even with the flutz her PCS and TES will probably rise.

 

[Mathman]

I haven't done any calculation, but if I remember it correctly. Miss Medvedeva wouldn't have broken Miss Kim's WR had her flutz had been called deservingly?

Maybe this, maybe that. It is what it is.

 

[annesigin]

You're right. Looking at the scores there isn't that much room for Mao to score a lot higher than Evgenia. It's a pity that Mao's planned BV is so much higher than everyone else yet she never comes close to maximizing her TES scores like Yuna and Evgenia do.

I wonder if Asada has reached up to her planned bv in any of her fs after the season 2006? I cannot find such a fs in my memories and want to know if anyone remembers.
Her planned bv is meaningless since she can never come close. And too difficult jumps make her goe and pcs lower. She need right jumps but not the most difficult jumps.

 

[Krislite]

I took jenaj's comment as pro-Evgenia. That is, we keep rolling back the finish line on her. If she breaks this record, we tend to say, "oh yeah, well she didn't break that one." Then when she breaks that one, well, she didn't break the next one.

But we're not moving the goal posts; rather, there are (were) several of them. There was more than one "Yuna Kim's record" that this thread is discussing. Evgenia has broken one, but not the other. Like I said earlier: two down, one more to go.

Yuna didn't become famous just because of one world record. She made several along the way to the Olympic Gold.

 

[jenaj]

The thread as it developed only focused mainly on the long program record until that record was broken. I'm pretty sure it won't be long before the combined record is broken, too, so another goalpost will have to be set.

 

[Krislite]

The thread as it developed only focused mainly on the long program record until that record was broken. I'm pretty sure it won't be long before the combined record is broken, too, so another goalpost will have to be set.

Mao's SP record. We'll need a new thread called "When Will Mao's SP record be broken?"

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

And her consistency with maybe landing the triple axel, maybe not, is SERIOUSLY limiting her PCS, I think. I feel like judges will lowball you on PCS if they're constantly on edge about whether you'll land your jumps. The beginning of every Mao program is like a "dun dun dun, will she do it? 3...2...1...." moment.

If she had Evgenia-level consistency even with the flutz her PCS and TES will probably rise.

Yeah, I think Mao needs to completely revamp her planned elements. If she is clean but < on the 3A she gets the amount of points of a good 2A. A fall, step-out or << and she is much worse off doing the 3A than a 2A. On her 3F/3Lo combination, if <, gets -GOE and a reduction in BV. This is problematic because these are, individually, her two strongest jumps. If she does them solo then repeats them in combination with a 2T or 2Lo she may be better off. If she could do (in any order):
1) 2A-3T
2) 2A-3T-2T
3) 3F
4) 3F-2Lo
5) 3Lo
6) 3S
7) 3Lz
That would get her a lower BV but higher likelihood that she would rotate everything and be competitive with the top women. The system simply doesn't reward difficulty that isn't very well executed. Even with 3 < and a double (with an "e"), Mao was within 4 points of Evgenia's BV in the Worlds LP. Mao got -GOE on those four elements but +GOE on everything else.

 

[sallycinnamon]

I haven't done any calculation, but if I remember it correctly. Miss Medvedeva wouldn't have broken Miss Kim's WR had her flutz had been called deservingly?

This is absolutely true.

 

[russianbratz]

I wondering if they're not calling Med's flutz because of the tano variation and spread eagle transition. It seems like you might be able to justify positive GOE with those features, but the edge should still be noted in her protocols. To be honest, I think it is bad enough to warrant a full 'e'. I look at Ashley, and she's at least holding a neutral edge. You can see her trying. With Med it is a classic flutz where she's approaching it with an outside but bobbling right over to the inside.

 

[solani]

I wondering if they're not calling Med's flutz because of the tano variation and spread eagle transition. It seems like you might be able to justify positive GOE with those features, but the edge should still be noted in her protocols. To be honest, I think it is bad enough to warrant a full 'e'. I look at Ashley, and she's at least holding a neutral edge. You can see her trying. With Med it is a classic flutz where she's approaching it with an outside but bobbling right over to the inside.

Could it have something to do with where on the ice she's doing her lutz? It's not in the corner she's skating parallel to the shorter side of the rink quite far to the left from the judge's perspective. Do we know where the tech panel's cameras are? It could be a dead angle.

 

[dorispulaski]

This whole conservation leaves me

Yuna Kim in 2010 skated under different rules with different base values, GOE's, and Zayak rules than today's skaters. The scores are not comparable, so I would really like to know why all of you care so much about numerical comparisons that don't have any real meaning?

As to who is the better skater, Evgenia or Yuna or Mao, that is a meaningful discussion...who got a higher score or will get a higher score, not so much IMO, since it is apples to coconuts.

 

[moriel]

This whole conservation leaves me

Yuna Kim in 2010 skated under different rules with different base values, GOE's, and Zayak rules than today's skaters. The scores are not comparable, so I would really like to know why all of you care so much about numerical comparisons that don't have any real meaning?

As to who is the better skater, Evgenia or Yuna or Mao, that is a meaningful discussion...who got a higher score or will get a higher score, not so much IMO, since it is apples to coconuts.

Im still waiting for someone here to show up with recalculated Yuna's score and actually check when the record was beaten.

 

[nolangoh]

Im still waiting for someone here to show up with recalculated Yuna's score and actually check when the record was beaten.

I remember someone did it already but I don't remember it is here or in the other thread, I try to find it and copy the message. IIRC, if we re-do the math using today's (15-16 season) rules, 150.06 would become some thing like 142 only. So it has been broken a few time already LOL