Yagudin's Remarks about Russian Decline in Figure Skating

[Joesitz (RIP)]

The article appears on Golden Skate Home Page.

I just don't get what is so important that a country has to be numero uno in any sport. I think a little country like Switzerland is happy they have a World gold medalist, and realizes that there is little chance of gold in any other discipline for them.

I like it when an American wins a competition but I don't hang out flags because of the win. It's not that important especially when you enjoy the sport of skating and acknowledge a wide scope of talented skaters round the world. Klimkin, Lambiel, van der Perren winning gold would please me no end and that does not take away from Johnny, whom I also would be pleased if he won gold.

Other than the Ladies which the USA has done remarkably well for many years, I don't think we've had compeitive Pairs in quite awhile, but we did (the Carruthers; Randy & Tai) and that could come back some day. But again, I like it when the best that night win, and still remain happy for my personal international favorites (win or lose).

I'm sorry, but I do not get overjoyed with Dance. Too many questions come into my mind. If Yagdin is worried about that discipline so be it

And for the other disciplines I would ease Yagudin's mind by asking So what?. There are plenty of Russian coaches living abroad with first rate skaters who still skate under the Russian banner.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Here's the direct link:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...ry/LAC/20050421/YAGUDIN21/TPSports/TopStories

In the latest issue of Spotlight on Skating Ilia Kulik makes the same points. Kulik, however, does not blame Piseev's brusque personality and poor management skills, the way Yagudin does. Instead, Ilia focuses on the collapse of the whole Soviet system.

During the cold war, the USSR used sports as a propaganda tool to prove how wonderful the Communist system was. So winning Olympic medals, etc., assumed a political weight far out of proportion to its actual importance. When Boris Spassky lost the world chess championship to American Bobby Fisher in the 1960s, as a punishment the government took away Spassky's apartment and car.

Under the soviet system promising young athletes were identified and recruited as children and given access to the best possible coaching and training facilities. Now, in the current political/economic turmoil, it's every man for himself, but largely without the private wealth that undergirds skating in the U.S.

The only remaining big national sports program like that is in China. We see the results in their rise to dominance in pairs.

Mathman

 

[Ptichka]

I think it's always a shame when something hard earned is lost. USSR had a whole system of selecting kids from all over the place, seeing what they could do, and making them reach their full potential. Don't get me wrong, I am certainly not glorifying the old system; however, there was surely the a way to maintain at least a part of the benefits of the old system, while adjusting to the new socio-economic realities.

Don't forget that the "evil empire" also had a lot of positive points. Un-nostalgic as I am for the Soviet days, I can't help cringing at, say, the dramatic decline in public education in Russia over the last 15 years.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Here's the direct link:
The only remaining big national sports program like that is in China. We see the results in their rise to dominance in pairs.

China has little in the pairs pipeline after Ding & Ren. It's hard to tell how much of a "program" there is there, since there aren't the large number of "feeder" rinks to provide Bin Yao with a large pool of talented kids from whom to choose and develop. In every other sport -- including curling! -- the Chinese have used their training system to compete at top levels in a relatively short period of time (gymnastics and diving are only two examples), but not in skating.

Now that Chen Lu and Denis Petrov are (or are about to start) coaching in China, they'll be able to decentralize resources a little, but that still doesn't solve the issue of feeder rinks.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It seems the Soviet system for Sports has continued after the collapse. Being first is important for the State.

I remember a British track star (maybe Coe, I'm not sure) after winning the only gold medal for the UK was asked about his teammates. He said it's best to be the only gold medalist, one gets more attention at home.

Joe

 

[Ptichka]

It seems the Soviet system for Sports has continued after the collapse. Being first is important for the State.

It only continued on inertia so to speak. Most of Russia's top athletes have been selected for the sport back in the Soviet days. They were trained by the coaches who were used to working for a pittance. Today, however the system cannot continue as most schools have closed. When there is no new talent coming in, the sport cannot flourish.

 

[NansXOXOX]

Today, however the system cannot continue as most schools have closed. When there is no new talent coming in, the sport cannot flourish.

I think this is the main point Yagudin is trying to make. The talent may be there for the next few years, but it's the time after that that is the problem. Perhaps it's not so "all important" for a country to be numero uno in a given sport, but given the history of Russian skaters, it's unusual and should be noted as a symptom of a larger issue.

Nan

 

[heyang]

I think part of Yagudin's point is that the money is no longer there to nurture the talents of someone who is talented and competitive. It takes a lot of money to develop a Oly level skater and the Russian public and Russian government have other priorities right now.

In the US, there are a lot of skaters who have had to quit due to a lack of funding. A lot of the US pros were lucky to either be born to wealth or to be talented enough to gain the support of a private sponsor. I just started reading Scott Hamilton's autobiography and he was fortunate to have gotten a private sponsor. Todd Eldridge's whole town got together to fundraise to support his skating career.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think this is the main point Yagudin is trying to make. The talent may be there for the next few years, but it's the time after that that is the problem. Perhaps it's not so "all important" for a country to be numero uno in a given sport, but given the history of Russian skaters, it's unusual and should be noted as a symptom of a larger issue.Nan

Apparently, a Soviet-like Government is needed to make greatness, and without it Russian skaters will have to fend for themselves as skaters in other countries have always had to do. No it won't be easy for them under capitalism. I get Yagudin's point. Maybe Putin will allot some money for Russian sports and they will continue to have an edge on other countries. btw, I'm not against that, there are too many talented Americans who can not afford this sport. Money talks!

Joe

 

[Ptichka]

Joe, it is not just about capitalism. The whole thing has been mis-managed greatly. Given the abundance of competent coaches in the country, the cost of continuing the numerous clubs for the kids would not be that much greater than the costs of regular after school programs. Right now, however, the country has neither. Whereas when I was growing up, I'd have different after school activities on most days, now only the rich can afford it. Since I consistently want more affordable after school activities in this country, it wouldn't make any sense for me to want something different for Russia.

 

[NansXOXOX]

Money talks!

Joe

Money does talk and apparently the other question Yagudin and other skaters are asking is, what has happened to all the money they have been required to funnel back into the figure skating program from their winnings for all these years? From the article:

"The Russian federation takes 10 per cent of any skater's winnings, but Chaikovskaya said she does not know what happens to the money. She said she doesn't see skating schools or talent identification systems getting any financial support."

Nan

 

[Mathman]

Joe, it is not just about capitalism. The whole thing has been mis-managed greatly. Given the abundance of competent coaches in the country, the cost of continuing the numerous clubs for the kids would not be that much greater than the costs of regular after school programs. Right now, however, the country has neither. Whereas when I was growing up, I'd have different after school activities on most days, now only the rich can afford it. Since I consistently want more affordable after school activities in this country, it wouldn't make any sense for me to want something different for Russia.

I think that figure skating is just expensive any way you look at it. In terms of affordable after school activities in the U.S., every school has a gym and a playing field. So sports like basketball and baseball can be offered almost for free. Many schools just throw a couple of balls out on the court, assign the social studies teacher to be the basketball coach (as part of his/her regular teaching load, of course), and away you go.

But I don't know of any public K-12 school that has the budget to build and maintain an ice skating rink. If you contract with private clubs to open their facilties, still, somebody has to pay.

MM

 

[Ptichka]

Mathman, I remember the ice rink that I went to as a kid. It was outdoors only; in the spring/ fall we did general fitness and dance. There was no zamboni - every half hour or so we had to take this big thing to clean up the ice. It wasn't what you probably envision when you think of a "skating club", but we had fun, we learned a lot, and those who did well then went on to other places with better conditions.

 

[STL_Blues_fan]

I don't know how it is now, but back in the USSR most after-school activities were offsite the school grounds. We had so-called Pioneer Palaces which had numerous clubs (educational, hobby and sporting). Most activities were free or had a nominal annual fee. I attended ballet classes in a dance school, had classes in an art school and a music school, and went to a book club in one of those "Palaces". On the weekend I went to the suburbs for horseback riding classes. I assume that anybody who wanted to skate would go to the rink in the same way I would go to the ballet school.

So any "neighborhood" rink would be able to serve a number of schools. If the city supports it, of course. Also, students walk to school, there are no school buses, so attending any after school activities offsite shouldn't be a problem.

I also wonder what happens to that 10%?

Yana