Your top ten ladies of all time?

[prettykeys]

I think the reason Kristi is so high on many peoples' lists is because of her pro career. She was the unrivaled star of stars on the U.S. pro circuit, back in the glory days when profession skating was something worth being the star of. She was still doing triple Lutzes in pro competitions and show programs right up to the end of her career at age 29.

Plus, she won Dancing with the Stars! Did Sonia Henie ever do that?

Hahaha, well I guess I couldn't take advantage of all that. I still have a ton of love for Kristi, and she'll forever be associated with my introduction to this sport.

I do disagree with you on one point, though. I think credit should be given to the pioneers who were the "first to do something," even if people came along later and -- standing on the shoulders of giants -- did it better.

Oh, I certainly think credit should be given to them, but on a separate list of pioneers or pushers of the sport; not necessarily the best. Midori Ito may have been the first woman to land a 3A in competition, but to me it isn't that fact that makes me put her on the list of greats...it's the quality of her jumps in general and how she pushed the technical aspect of figure skating for women. Some skaters will be both greats and pioneers. Dick Button would be included as another combination contributor.

 

[rtureck]

rtureck,
it is my first comment here and I hope you could realized that you actually made someone post a comment for the first time. Isn't it funny You were the first one, if not the only one, saying 'a certain skater wouldn't even make my top 12'?
Totally unnecessary, and it makes your devotion to Mao look not so good.

And hi to you too. LOL. Yeah what is wrong with saying YuNa wouldn't even make my top 12. Like I said earlier, Nagasu is my #4 all time favorite and she does not even make my top 20 all time great. I don't see any Nagasu fans being offended. But somehow super YuNa fans are so sensitive about others not inclduing her in top 10, that to me is "unnecessary". Perhaps, "it makes your devotion to" YuNa "look not so good" .Mao is #7 in my list of top 10 greatest, it has nothing to do with "devotion". But if you think listing someone as #7 all time great is devotion, then YuNa being your #5 must indicate that you are uber devoted to her.

Since this is "10 My favorites thread"
1. Katarina Witt
2. Michelle Kwan
3. Peggy Fleming
4. Kristi Yamaguchi
5. Yuna Kim
6. Irina Slutskaya
7. Oksana Baiul
8. Janet Lynn
9. Midori Ito
10. Mao Asada

and Hi Everyone

Actually this is not "my 10 favorite" thread, it is a thread about "the top 10 of all time". LOL

 

[rtureck]

As far as personal criteria go, I think records and scores are kinda meh. Dominance is one thing, but dominance alone against weak fields isn't that impressive (so lady skaters from decades ago with tons of titles make me zzzzzz). And TBH I don't really care who the first lady to land the double Axel or triple Salchow, etc., was. Those landmarks cause a massive SHRUG from me because they're inevitable; look how far the ladies have come these days, which means it was always possible, and those individuals just got to it first (by being born earlier, into a skating culture.) Yawnnnn.

Fine that is your criteria, I certainly won't diss anther poster for not using my critieria for greatness, unlike some super Yuna fan who get so offended for others not including marks at world /olys as criteria lol

But when someone lists her in their top-10 while omitting YuNa Kim, that definitely looks shady to me.

And there are a few posters (8 so far) who have not included YuNa in their top 10. I think it is "shady" fior some super Kim fans to diss other posters opinion, just b/c they do not include YuNa in their top 10. And BTW when you said "to me" is that the same as IMO, or JMO????

Michelle Kwan, Midori Ito, and Janet Lynn are almost impossible to omit from the list of 10 best ladies, even while allowing for subjectivity. Those three were just too freakin' good at any relevant criteria that must be included in such a discussion.

Even though I include the above 3 in my top 10 all time best, there are others who have not included them, and it is perfectly fine with me. I don't have the kind of intolerance of some uber fans who call others "shady", just b/c they do not included their favorites as top 10 all time best LOL. I certainly do not see any Mk fans, Ito fans or Lynn fans who accuse others of being "shady" for not including them in their lists

 

[prettykeys]

Fine that is your criteria, I certainly won't diss anther poster for not using my critieria for greatness, unlike some super Yuna fan who get so offended for others not including marks at world /olys as criteria lol

The problem with your bias is that you categorize posters as "YuNa-fans" and "YuNa-ubers" instead of addressing them by name. It's blatant and very obvious that no one is really going to take you seriously, man. But hey, that's your choice. *clap clap clap*

And there are a few posters (8 so far) who have not included YuNa in their top 10. I think it is "shady" fior some super Kim fans to diss other posters opinion, just b/c they do not include YuNa in their top 10. And BTW when you said "to me" is that the same as IMO, or JMO????

Only Mafke gave a good explanation for putting in Kristi and not YuNa on his/her list; that is, "longevity"--Mafke also excluded YuNa's contemporaries, which shows he/she is at least consistent. And no, it's not the same. People can argue or discuss any of my preferential/opinion points (just as Mathman did, and I'm not going to cower behind the words "OMG I said IMO/JMO/good for you Mathman, that's your opinion and my opinion is mine *beeeeeeep impenetrable cranium but I swear I'm not a bottttttt*")

 

[Puppylove]

Dear rtureck,

first of all, I am sorry that I am singling you out. I read the whole thread carefully twice before posting.

Up to page 5, everyone is having a fun and interesting debate about their top ten skaters, with agreement and disagreement in equal measures. From page 6-7 onwards, much of it seems to be you arguing, not debating, with everyone. I really honestly do not see any over-the-top, offensive comments prior, yet you come up with "according to some super fans/ubers of...", fairly out of the blue, which you then keep referring to repeatedly. Even if there were, I do not think that gives you a free pass to what I see as unnecessary aggression.

I do dislike "ubers/bots", too, but "haters", whether of certain skaters or of their fans, also make me uncomfortable and I suspect I am not alone in this. So please tone it down a little.

 

[rtureck]

The problem with your bias is that you categorize posters as "YuNa-fans" and "YuNa-ubers" instead of addressing them by name. It's blatant and very obvious that no one is really going to take you seriously, man. But hey, that's your choice. *clap clap clap*

When some fans are willing to insult all olys silver medalist to elevate their favorite, in my book that is uber. When some fans who are willing to insult other posters lists as "shady" just b/c they don't include their favorite in top 10, in my book thatis super uber, so clap clap clap, how serious should they be tken?

Only Mafke gave a good explanation for putting in Kristi and not YuNa on his/her list; that is, "longevity"--Mafke also excluded YuNa's contemporaries, which shows he/she is at least consistent.

On recount there are 10 ppl so far who have not included YuNa in their top 10. I believe this thread is started by someone who did not include YuNa. And why should these poster's opinion be called "shady" just because they don't think YuNa deserves to be top 10???

 

[rtureck]

Dear rtureck,

I really honestly do not see any over-the-top, offensive comments prior, yet you come up with "according to some super fans/ubers of...", fairly out of the blue, which you then keep referring to repeatedly.

I already mentioned why I think some fans are super/uber when they are willing to insult all olys silver medalists to elevate their favorite, or when they are willing to call other posters' opnion as "shady" just b/c they do not put their favorite in their top 10, or to call a poster as a "Mao bot" just because the poster put Mao as #7 in the list.

Anyway, where is your list of 10??

 

[Queens Guy]

rtureck, unlike some other lists that don't have Yuna, the reason that she is not on your list is that you don't listen or learn, I would say, based on your attitude. Insulting other posters will not get you anything.

 

[jBroxton7001]

damn, Can we ever get out of this Yu-Na/Mao mayhem? hwell:
I thought , after Oly, finally we've got over . I guess I was pretty naive on that matter. :scowl:

 

[Puppylove]

I already mentioned why I think some fans are super/uber when they are willing to insult all olys silver medalists to elevate their favorite, or when they are willing to call other posters' opnion as "shady" just b/c they do not put their favorite in their top 10, or to call a poster as a "Mao bot" just because the poster put Mao as #7 in the list.


The first post you are referring to says "most people remember the gold, not the silver". A statement I disagree with, but does that make this person a super/uber fan? Is this an act that insults all olys silver medalists to elevate their favourite? You think so, and I don't, so let's agree to disagree. I said in my post, PRIOR to you starting to label people as super/uber fans. Those who called you a "Mao bot" and thought other people's opinions shady just because they hadn't included a certain skater, yes, I think they are also in the wrong, but that still doesn't justify your continually aggressive tone.

 

[rtureck]

rtureck, unlike some other lists that don't have Yuna, the reason that she is not on your list is that you don't listen or learn, I would say, based on your attitude. Insulting other posters will not get you anything.

This is a thread about listing our top 10 best skaters. I list my 10 and gave reason why. This is not a thread about why posters should learn from YuNa fans and agree with them tht YuNa is the best ever, Sio your insult of another poster for not "listening and learning" will not get your anything.

So what is your list of 10?

 

[Puppylove]

Anyway, where is your list of 10??[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I mean. When you are having a face-to-face conversation with strangers, even when you are having a disagreement, do you talk like you write?

It appears that I'm not going to change your attitude and you are probably finding me offensive now, so shall we put each other on the ignore list.

 

[prettykeys]

I already mentioned why I think some fans are super/uber when they are willing to insult all olys silver medalists to elevate their favorite, or when they are willing to call other posters' opnion as "shady" just b/c they do not put their favorite in their top 10, or to call a poster as a "Mao bot" just because the poster put Mao as #7 in the list.

Poor rtureck, he struggles with basic sentences and logic. Again and again.

I said it is "shady" when Kristi is put into the top 10 but YuNa is excluded. I said Mafke was a good exception because he/she gave a reason for not putting YuNa in there. BTW, I only noted 3 people where YuNa wasn't on the list (original poster, you, and Mafke). You're the one who is clearly obsessed with counting how many posters don't put YuNa in the top 10 LOL

Most people who like Kristi like her because she is generally a well-rounded skater; but to me it is strange when certain people like her and not YuNa because as far as I can tell, YuNa has better-choreographed (competitive) programs, better jumps, and about the same consistency. That kinda signals to me those individuals might have something against YuNa. That is all.

 

[rtureck]

Anyway, where is your list of 10??

This is exactly what I mean. When you are having a face-to-face conversation with strangers, even when you are having a disagreement, do you talk like you write?

It appears that I'm not going to change your attitude and you are probably finding me offensive now, so shall we put each other on the ignore list.[/QUOTE]

I have no problem with the arrangement of ignore list. When I ask you "anyway where is your list of 10, I was asking a very straight forward question, which afterall is on topic, and I was truly curious about knowing who makes your top 10

 

[rtureck]

I said it is "shady" when Kristi is put into the top 10 but YuNa is excluded. I said Mafke was a good exception because he/she gave a reason for not putting YuNa in there. BTW, I only noted 3 people where YuNa wasn't on the list (original poster, you, and Mafke). You're the one who is clearly obsessed with counting how many posters don't put YuNa in the top 10 LOL

Lets see, Kristi is another OGM. She is the first lady skater who lands 3z/3t in competition. She has a jr world gold in pairs. That is some spectacular achievement. Dare I say she achieved more than YuNa? (Please feel free to disagree but please don't call that "shady So posters who include Kristi but exclude YuNa is "shady". LOL. I read through the thread twice and counted 8 the first time and 10 the second. You read through the thread how many times to come up with 3? At least once? So that makes you half as "obsessed"?

Most people who like Kristi like her because she is generally a well-rounded skater; but to me it is strange when certain people like her and not YuNa because as far as I can tell, YuNa has better-choreographed (competitive) programs, better jumps, and about the same consistency. That kinda signals to me those individuals might have something against YuNa. That is all.

Poor preetykeys, do you seriously think posters who include Kristi (but exclude YuNa) as one of the 10 best skaters in history have something against YuNa. ???? Are you struggling iwith "basic logic"?

Skating is a sport, and it is expected that skaters in the current generation to have better jumps than skaters from previous generations. I agree YuNa has better jumps (better height), but that is the nature of sports. Who has better choreography is totally subjective. Kristi nakes my top 10 b/c she excelled at the world stage in 2 disiplines,: singles OGM, and pairs : jr world gold. Oh and talk about jumps, Kristi consistently lands triple loops in competitions LOL

 

[lowtherlore]

Here's my Top Ten:

1. Michelle Kwan - The Kween, for her grace, passion, longevity and sheer connection with audience.

2. Katarina Witt - The iron curtain goddess was a fierce performer, the icon of her times.

3. Yu-Na Kim - The Queen, for her elegance, musicality, and her seamless, masterly execution of subtle nuances of forms and movements transcends boundaries of technique and art.

4. Janet Lynn - She's still the reference for grace, musicality, and skating skills.

5. Kristi Yamaguchi - She's a versatile skater with a good range as a performer, with no real weaknesses.

6. Midori Ito - An enthusiasic performer with amazing jumping abilities.

7. Lu Chen - She was very musical, and mounted an impressive comeback to an excellent form.

8. Irina Slutskaya - For her long rivalry with Kwan, competitive records, her perseverance, and she was an exciting performer with huge jumps.

9. Tara Lipinski - The daring youth skated with joy and abandon, with technical abilities.

10. Sasha Cohen - Albeit her failures in the defining moments, I will remember her for sporadic hints of an enchanting genius.

 

[yunaddiction]

I choose the most influential 3 ladies after '80.


1. Katarina Witt - 2 time Oly winner. Also dominated the intermediate era. Icon in '80.
2. Michelle Kwan - No Oly gold but dominated a decade. Popularity. Passion.
3. Yuna Kim - Most influential Oly winner since Kristi. Role model for new points system. Total package.

I think they are 3 highest mountains for 3 decades.
My next choices should be....

4. Kristi - Another total package.
5. Midori - What a great jumper.
6. Irina - Hats to her human victory. fierce competition with Michelle.

If I have to fill up the ten...
The rest will be Chen Lu, Arakawa, Butyrskaya and Saha Cohen.

Tara and Oksana...quit too early.
Ladies before Katarina... out of my evaluation.

 

[Layfan]

I choose the most influential 3 ladies after '80.


1. Katarina Witt - 2 time Oly winner. Also dominated the intermediate era. Icon in '80.
2. Michelle Kwan - No Oly gold but dominated a decade. Popularity. Passion.
3. Yuna Kim - Most influential Oly winner since Kristi. Role model for new points system. Total package.

I think they are 3 highest mountains for 3 decades.
My next choices should be....

4. Kristi - Another total package.
5. Midori - What a great jumper.
6. Irina - Hats to her human victory. fierce competition with Michelle.

If I have to fill up the ten...
The rest will be Chen Lu, Arakawa, Butyrskaya and Saha Cohen.

Tara and Oksana...quit too early.
Ladies before Katarina... out of my evaluation.

That's funny - your list is almost exactly like mine except I did inlcude Tara and Oskana. But you chose worthy replacements :agree:

Also, i started the list from the 90s, so threw in Mao rather than Kat.

But you have good taste in skaters

 

[Phoenix347]

totally agree


YuNa wouldn't even make my top 12. She skates enough to win fair and square but so did many skaterse.g. Tara, Shizuka . I definitely put Tara and Shizuka above YuNa when it comes to all time


Mao will make my top 10. I disagree that she is forever under the shadow of a Korean skater. When they were both young Mao beat her Korean mate many times. Even at present, I can't think of any competition/event that Mao is overshadowed by YuNa. Even at the olympics, yes YuNa won gold and Mao won silver. At every comp there will be a gold medalist and a silver medalist. But this silver medalist made history at least 3 times. First lady skater to land a 3a/2t in the sp, first lady to land two 3as in the lp, and first lady to land 3a/2t in a lp. Wonder how long it will take another lady to break this record. In the next olys there will be another gold medalist, so that record will be broken.

Ito is in my list, first lady to land a 3a in olys, and it took 18 yrs for that record to be broken.

My list:

Michelle Kwan (the whole package)
Midori Ito (REASON given above)
Krist Yamaguchi (world, olys champ in singles, champ in world prs jr, takes a special skater to achieve)
Kat Will (what a record at olsy)
Sonia (record )
Tara (youngest world and olys champ, first and only lady to land 3l/3l in olys)
Mao Asada (set historical record, but more important, iMO she is the most ehtereal skater who ever laced up a pr of skate)
Janet Lynn (definition of beauty and joy on icd)
A tie b/w Chen Lu and Shizuka for 10th (Lu for her beauty and grace on ice, and Divakawa her WOW factor)

While I also did not put Yuna in the top 10 myself, it is because her achievements are not quite there with the greatest ten ladies in history of figure skating. She may be in the top ten if she wins some more titles. Unlike you I also did not include Mao in the top ten because she is definitely not up there in terms of achievements with the top ten. And if I were to extend the top ten like you did, Yuna would be above Mao.

As for Tara, she also wouldn't make my top ten either. She had a very short career and frequently came in second or third at Grand Prix events. Even her junior career was not stellar. She would also be below Yuna. She and Mao would be comparable in terms of achievements and I would probably give Tara a tiny edge due to her OGM.

With Kristi, it a toss up between her and Yuna but she didn't make my top ten either. Didn't quite achieve enough for my top ten.

Lu Chen and Arakawa wouldn't make my top ten either. And both of their achievement are below Yuna's and Kristi's. Lu Chen would be below Mao and Arakawa would be about even with Mao.

Kristi and Yuna are just below the top ten for me right now and of course Yuna could climb up higher if her career continues. Sorry to say but I cannot include Dancing with the Stars win for Kristi's achievements since it's not exactly figure skating.

As for a competition where Yuna overshadowed Mao, I would list two. 2009 World Championship and 2009 TEB. At 2009 World Championship, Mao did not even make the podium while Yuna buried the rest of the field and at TEB, while Mao was second, she was a really really distant second. In many ways at the Olympics, Mao was actually overshadowed by Rochette by her personal story. Completion wise, she was almost overshadowed by Yuna but did distinguish herself with 3 triple Axels. She did really really well in the Olympics but Yuna was at anther level. Worlds should be very interesting.

 

[miki88]

While I also did not put Yuna in the top 10 myself, it is because her achievements are not quite there with the greatest ten ladies in history of figure skating. She may be in the top ten if she wins some more titles. Unlike you I also did not include Mao in the top ten because she is definitely not up there in terms of achievements with the top ten. And if I were to extend the top ten like you did, Yuna would be above Mao.

As for Tara, she also wouldn't make my top ten either. She had a very short career and frequently came in second or third at Grand Prix events. Even her junior career was not stellar. She would also be below Yuna. She and Mao would be comparable in terms of achievements and I would probably give Tara a tiny edge due to her OGM.

With Kristi, it a toss up between her and Yuna but she didn't make my top ten either. Didn't quite achieve enough for my top ten.

Lu Chen and Arakawa wouldn't make my top ten either. And both of their achievement are below Yuna's and Kristi's. Lu Chen would be below Mao and Arakawa would be about even with Mao.

Kristi and Yuna are just below the top ten for me right now and of course Yuna could climb up higher if her career continues. Sorry to say but I cannot include Dancing with the Stars win for Kristi's achievements since it's not exactly figure skating.

As for a competition where Yuna overshadowed Mao, I would list two. 2009 World Championship and 2009 TEB. At 2009 World Championship, Mao did not even make the podium while Yuna buried the rest of the field and at TEB, while Mao was second, she was a really really distant second. In many ways at the Olympics, Mao was actually overshadowed by Rochette by her personal story. Completion wise, she was almost overshadowed by Yuna but did distinguish herself with 3 triple Axels. She did really really well in the Olympics but Yuna was at anther level. Worlds should be very interesting.

That's interesting. So you base achievements in terms of titles won, because I also see you include Janet Lynn in your list. I know figures held her back from winning titles but those were the rules back then so under that system, she wasn't a great competitor. However, she was very influential as I did include her on my list. I think rather than the number of titles won, skaters should be evaluated in terms of the amount of overall influence they have made. It's hard to predict that for current skaters, since their careers haven't ended yet. But if I were to predict, I would think both Yuna and Mao would be on the list because they both will be remembered for a long time in their respective countries. Yuna will be remembered as the trailbrazer for Korean figure skating. And I think the only skater who would probably be ahead of Mao in Japan in terms of fame is Midori Ito. These two should also be credited for contributing to the Asian boom in figure skating.