Here We Go Again! Nationals Inflation! | Golden Skate

Here We Go Again! Nationals Inflation!

C

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Italian and French Nationals have just concluded, and the scores for Ice Dance have reached new heights.

The scores for Cappellini / LaNotte take first prize for the most Gargantuan inflation so far:

SD: 76.55 38.35 38.20 9.31 9.38 9.63 9.81 9.63
FD: 113.61 55.23 58.38 9.38 9.63 9.69 9.94 10.00


Guignard / Fabbri's scores are monstrously puffed-up as well:
SD: 66.95 33.85 33.10 8.19 8.06 8.38 8.38 8.38
FD: 102.79 50.48 52.31 8.44 8.63 8.88 8.88 8.75


By comparison, over in France, the scores for Papadakis / Cizeron seem almost conservative:
SD: 71.40 36.60 34.80 8.67 8.50 8.58 8.83 8.92
FD: 109.83 54.33 55.50 9.00 9.17 9.25 9.33 9.50
 
Yep I saw that. C&L getting V&M scores in Sochi. :laugh2:
I get the inflation at the Nationals but this ridiculous and I'm not sure they are doing a favor to their skaters either.
I hope I&Z will not get scores like these because it's like saying you have nothing to improve or work on it.
 
I don't think it really matters, as long as everyone is equally inflated (AKA the final results are correct). The only potential problem is the levels--if you give a higher level than what they're supposed to get, the team won't know to change it.

But PCS, GOE? Meh. Everyone knows they won't be scored the same internationally. Nothing to fuss over, imo.
 
Japan Nationals will be interesting in mens :laugh2:



I think it is not big deal overall. Scores at nationals are always inflated.
 
Last edited:
Sandpiper said:
I don't think it really matters, as long as everyone is equally inflated (AKA the final results are correct). The only potential problem is the levels--if you give a higher level than what they're supposed to get, the team won't know to change it.

But PCS, GOE? Meh. Everyone knows they won't be scored the same internationally. Nothing to fuss over, imo.
Click to expand...

Agreed. National scoring is not included in their bio information for a reason, you know. If they want to give their teams a perfect score, well, go ahead. It won't change anything internationally.
 
Yeah, numbers don't matter at Nationals as long as ordering is correct. The judges just don't have to be as careful, and sometimes the differences in ability are quite large (depending on the nationals) so judges can spread out more, and since they don't count towards records, if they over-mark someone, they can just boost the next person, no consequences.
As long as they don't favor (or put down) someone say, artistry wise, that doesn't hold up internationally (usfs I'm looking at you) [again not in numbers, but in difference/gap or placement]. Turning a blind eye to tech problems like UR and edge, that would get called internationally (at worlds), especially to favor someone, is also a problem.
Levels at least the skaters are probably smart enough to realize, well last time I did exact same thing with ~the same execution, this is probably nationals inflation. Unless they try something new.
 
National inflation in GOEs and PCS may be expected and discounted relative to ISU events but Tech Panels should not be lax like the judges. There are strict standards for each element and skaters should know if they are up to par and not be called at international events. They should not be cheated by sub standard callings of a national panel.
 
^ By the same argument, it seems like the skaters should not be cheated by bad judging of GOEs and PCSs, either.

The argument that the scores don't matter as long as they get the placements right is an interesting one. If this is true, then there is no reason for scores at all -- just ordinal placements.
 
Yeah, expect the scores to be generous but if the inflation is consistent, it should be fine. The skaters are smart- they know the marks are inflated.

What a national panel is great for is telling a skater whether or not the program is On or off track for success.
 
Mathman said:
The argument that the scores don't matter as long as they get the placements right is an interesting one. If this is true, then there is no reason for scores at all -- just ordinal placements.
Click to expand...

Exactly. So welcome back to Soshi. If they wanted Adelina to win, just give her the ordinals rather than make a joke of the judging. Of course there are no such things as ordinals anymore... It's still the same old, same old. USN are just as bad. Remember Boitano getting straight 6.0's in artistry prior to Calgary? Puhleaze.
 
Mathman said:
^ By the same argument, it seems like the skaters should not be cheated by bad judging of GOEs and PCSs, either.

The argument that the scores don't matter as long as they get the placements right is an interesting one. If this is true, then there is no reason for scores at all -- just ordinal placements.
Click to expand...
Welcome back, 6.0! I've missed you!

On a more serious note, imo there really is a difference between GOE/PCS inflation vs. generous tech calls. Every skater knows GOE and PCS will be inflated at Nationals; they know a shaky-but-landed jump will not pull +3 GOE internationally. Plus, the inflation is generally harmless as long as everyone is equally inflated.

On the other hand, we've seen several dance teams this season being brought down by levels (Shibutani/Shibutani, Stepanova/Bukin, ect). I think the Nationals panel should do their best to call the elements as an international panel would, to give the teams the necessary feedback. Edge and UR in singles function the same way--it's not good to tell a skater "You've fixed your URs!" when they haven't (I'm referring to obvious calls, not the 50/50 ones). Also, these calls can really affect placements; while everyone gets generous GOEs and PCS, not everyone has level/edge/UR problems.

To be honest, I don't really agree with the amount of points you lose for levels/edges/UR, but if those are (sadly) the rules in place, then the nationals panel has no choice but to enforce them.
 
Alba said:
Yep I saw that. C&L getting V&M scores in Sochi. :laugh2:
I get the inflation at the Nationals but this ridiculous and I'm not sure they are doing a favor to their skaters either.
I hope I&Z will not get scores like these because it's like saying you have nothing to improve or work on it.
Click to expand...

Oh please. They are the world champions-of course the score is going to be inflated.
They know it, the federation knows it, and the coach knows it.
It won't hurt them...just boost up their reputation.
 
I find it interesting that the Russian Fed chose two non-russian judges, Chait and Elek, for their technical panel in ice dance. I guess, they want to ensure that the levels are called from neutral people. Maybe more federations should consider to have at least one international member on the technical panel.
 
TryMeLater said:
Oh please. They are the world champions-of course the score is going to be inflated.
They know it, the federation knows it, and the coach knows it.
It won't hurt them...just boost up their reputation.
Click to expand...

Oh please they might be the world champions, with their FD in 4rth place, and I get the inflation but 76 points is still a joke and do them no favours at all. They went to China after receiving 72 point in Italy and look what happened.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I agree that it is not a good thing for them: PCS can be as inflated as they want it to be, but receiving inflated TES doesn't help the skaters to prepare at their best for Euros and Worlds :think:
 
FSGMT said:
Yes, I agree that it is not a good thing for them: PCS can be as inflated as they want it to be, but receiving inflated TES doesn't help the skaters to prepare at their best for Euros and Worlds :think:
Click to expand...

Well, as long as the levels are right, and I usually trust the technical caller at national events, I don't think that it's a big problem.
The main thing is to get the levels...the GOE is something else.
 
I think skaters are very aware that Nationals scores are inherently inflated if they have been national champions for many years already.

C&L know they have a lot to prove internationally. It looks like they got out of the trance from the earlier season and are skating their best again.
 
Here's the Russian Men's SP:

1 Maxim KOVTUN 98.14 53.04 45.10 9.00 8.71 9.14 9.11 9.14 0.00 17
2 Konstantin MENSHOV 92.37 50.99 41.38 8.21 8.00 8.32 8.39 8.46 0.00 8
3 Sergei VORONOV 91.24 48.88 42.36 8.46 8.25 8.61 8.50 8.54 0.00 12

Kovtun's head will be swollen to mammoth proportions!
 
chuckm said:
Here's the Russian Men's SP:

1 Maxim KOVTUN 98.14 53.04 45.10 9.00 8.71 9.14 9.11 9.14 0.00 17
2 Konstantin MENSHOV 92.37 50.99 41.38 8.21 8.00 8.32 8.39 8.46 0.00 8
3 Sergei VORONOV 91.24 48.88 42.36 8.46 8.25 8.61 8.50 8.54 0.00 12

Kovtun's head will be swollen to mammoth proportions!
Click to expand...

Actually, these scores are only 3-4 points off the ones these skaters posted in international competitions. So, I say not that bad judging.
 
Eh. I've accepted it. As long as the order is right, I don't really care. ;)

Happy Christmas, everyone! :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top