Thoughts on Satoko Miyahara's skating | Page 7 | Golden Skate

Thoughts on Satoko Miyahara's skating

Also, does the "precision versus abandonment" paradigm I've set up make sense to anyone else or just me?

I get what you're saying here and I agree with you and your examples. To me, it's kind of like 'giving one's all to the music and movements' and throwing themselves into the moment to express the music. The first thing that comes to my mind is Yuzuru's choreographic sequence at the end of his 2012 Worlds FS program, where he really attacks all his moves, hits all the musical accents and really conveyed the intensity of the music to the audience.

It's less schooled and rehearsed compared to someone like Satoko, where her performance is more measured and perfection is the goal. Every movement is very intentional and choreographed, down to the fingertips, and thus doesn't vary as much from performance to performance.

It's definitely down to preference which kind of performance people prefer. Like a singer from a rock band versus a more classical singer perhaps. I can definitely appreciate both types!

However, I do want to see what Satoko can do if she allows herself to let loose a bit more and focus on really letting the music flow through her body instead of putting on a perfect performance because I think that it will give her a more powerful presence on the ice since she has an introverted personality. Watching her new FS, her step sequence definitely has more zest but the rest of the program is still the same as before.

I wonder if having a more dramatic song choice or choreographer (like Tatiana Tarasova) will pull that kind of performance out of her.
 
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I freaking love this program. I especially like the Mars section and god bless her for doing a total of 9 triple jumps under the spot light no less.

And how is she so fit all the time?
 
I saw Satoko perform live tonight, and her 2axel-3toe loop looked good with decent height and speed. Her other jumps were scary to watch---very weird takeoffs. I am presuming that she is working very, very hard to rectify her jump height issue.

Her projection is not bad, and neither is her speed. She does not skate with strength but she's very supple.
 
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I saw Satoko perform live tonight, and her 2axel-3toe loop looked good with decent height and speed. Her other jumps were scary to watch---very weird takeoffs. I am presuming that she is working very, very hard to rectify her jump height issue.

Her projection is not bad, and neither is her speed. She does not skate with strength but she's very supple.

I wish her success in improving her jumps and projection. Every skater has things they can improve on. Satoko has always struck me as not only hard-working but incredibly perceptive of what she needs to work on. I think that is a great strength, and hopefully will serve her well in the upcoming years.
 
Re the abandon issue, I think what the original poster who brought it up is describing is akin to presence in the moment, in the sense of being present, in performance/competition, in such a way that transcends the training. Speaking as an ex-skater who now works in dance and physical theatre, it feels like what you get when you rehearse/train to the point that you can get to the performance/competition and rely on the muscle memory to do its job while you just live, moment to moment, through the performance. Where this doesn't happen, a performance may be technically great, but will look 'held' - the best way I can explain it is that it's as if the performer is trying to fill the choreography as something external, which needs to be 'got right/perfect' as opposed to trusting that s/he has embodied it through training and IS it and can now just BE in the moment. That being, I would argue, is what makes live performance - in any discipline/field - compelling.
 
She always does full run-throughs in practice, never skips a thing.
I wonder ... I'm not a figure skating expert, but I do know a couple of things regarding training of ski jumpers and nordic combined athletes. Nordic combinded is very difficult to train, because of the fact that the athletes need endurance for cross country skiing and also springiness for ski jumping. Satoko must have great endurance, she's always doing those full runthroughs. I just ask myself - is she doing too much? When it comes to f.e. running you always work on the speed first, then you work on endurance. A jump coach would know those things. Does anyone know wether she's working with a jump coach at the moment? I watched one of her exhibitions and I thought that the first two triple toes looked better than last season, but the third one didn't. I guess she was already a bit tired. It cannot be good for her to jump when she's already tired when she wants to change and improve her technique.
 
I wonder ... I'm not a figure skating expert, but I do know a couple of things regarding training of ski jumpers and nordic combined athletes. Nordic combinded is very difficult to train, because of the fact that the athletes need endurance for cross country skiing and also springiness for ski jumping. Satoko must have great endurance, she's always doing those full runthroughs. I just ask myself - is she doing too much? When it comes to f.e. running you always work on the speed first, then you work on endurance. A jump coach would know those things. Does anyone know wether she's working with a jump coach at the moment? I watched one of her exhibitions and I thought that the first two triple toes looked better than last season, but the third one didn't. I guess she was already a bit tired. It cannot be good for her to jump when she's already tired when she wants to change and improve her technique.

I don't think she's doing too much, because Mie Hamada is very strict with her rules and Satoko always listens to her. If Hamada tells her "enough for today", Satoko will obey. Doing full run-throughs (everything from jumps to spins, steps, choreo) is probably the key to her consistency. It may be too much for other skaters, but not for her. When she finishes her programs in competition (especially her long program) she doesn't look tired at all. She has incredible stamina. Maintaining such stamina is important for her to focus on improving speed, power and jumps.

Yamato Tamura is her full-time jump coach but she often works with Ilia Kulik. In fact, Kulik taught her the take-offs she does now to avoid UR calls; in other words, she was allowed to prerotate so much to stay competitive until she gets power in her leg muscles to jump high enough to not prerotate excessively as well as underrotate. I'm pretty sure she's not pleased with the prerotation on her toeloops; after all, she skated with a serious ankle injury in the second half of 2014-2015, including at Worlds. Mie Hamada said she trains twice as much as Marin Honda, because she has to control and eventually overcome her shortcomings.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why some people feel like she's not present enough in her performances, not authentic enough. She said every time she skates she is terrified of her jumps giving out on her. It's not as easy as people think. Her small jumps aren't the reason why she's so consistent - rather, the result of a lot of hard work to keep them under control. She always says her jumps are much better in practice because there's no pressure there, but in competition their quality decreases due to her fear of UR calls, falls. I'd say she does a pretty good job at not making that fear obvious.

Mie Hamada has a lot of talented girls in her group; Marin Honda, Yuna Shiraiwa and the up-and-coming 3A-3T sensation Rika Kihira. Asked about what makes them so successful and competitive, all three of them have credited the opportunity to train with Satoko. Whenever they feel like slacking off, they watch Satoko working and follow her lead. Satoko's own role model isn't a skater; it's gymnast Kohei Uchimura, known for consistency and combining difficulty with pristine execution.
 
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What I meant is that probably the training approach is not right for her. I think she needs more springiness. It's about the type of muscle fibres an athlete has - fast-twitch or slow-twitch. Some athletes, f.e. sprinters have up to 90% fast-twitch muscle fibers. A lot is genetical of course, but with the right training approach you can change slow-twitch muscle fibrers into fast-twitch muscle fibrers. And she could be very different genetically than the other skaters in her group. Not the same training approach is good for everyone. Maybe the question is consistency or high jumps? But I'm really only wildly speculating, to know what's really going on the coach/medical team has to have information about her muscle-fibers (biopsy I guess) and her absolute jumping power and springiness. What I know is that springiness is very very difficult to train, almost any endurance training can have a negative effect on it.
Satoko is a great competitor and her endurance is also helping her with that. And she wants to skate clean programs, that's obvious. We'll see how she'll develop in the next couple of months. I'm just somehow troubled that we already see her doing those difficult programs in shows, because I don't think that this is going to help her improve her technique in the long term.
 
What I meant is that probably the training approach is not right for her. I think she needs more springiness. It's about the type of muscle fibres an athlete has - fast-twitch or slow-twitch. Some athletes, f.e. sprinters have up to 90% fast-twitch muscle fibers. A lot is genetical of course, but with the right training approach you can change slow-twitch muscle fibrers into fast-twitch muscle fibrers. And she could be very different genetically than the other skaters in her group. Not the same training approach is good for everyone. Maybe the question is consistency or high jumps? But I'm really only wildly speculating, to know what's really going on the coach/medical team has to have information about her muscle-fibers (biopsy I guess) and her absolute jumping power and springiness. What I know is that springiness is very very difficult to train, almost any endurance training can have a negative effect on it.
Satoko is a great competitor and her endurance is also helping her with that. And she wants to skate clean programs, that's obvious. We'll see how she'll develop in the next couple of months. I'm just somehow troubled that we already see her doing those difficult programs in shows, because I don't think that this is going to help her improve her technique in the long term.

Aside from her coaching team Hamada-Tamura, she also has a personal trainer with whom she does muscle training, image training and so on. I think her trainer has developed a personalized program for her. Consistency or high jumps - I think she wouldn't be able to compete at all if she'd only focus on getting more elevation. As one of Japan's top skaters she has to work on both things at the same time.
 
Aside from her coaching team Hamada-Tamura, she also has a personal trainer with whom she does muscle training, image training and so on. I think her trainer has developed a personalized program for her. Consistency or high jumps - I think she wouldn't be able to compete at all if she'd only focus on getting more elevation. As one of Japan's top skaters she has to work on both things at the same time.
I agree, she has to work on both things to be competitive next season. I just think she might become a better jumper if she wouldn't be so result oriented for one season. But there's always the risk that a new strategy would be wrong and backfire and so I can understand that she and her team want to play it safe. But from what I see right now, the shows she's doing ... I just think that we won't see an improved jumper next season or ever. And that's sad to me because with better jumps she would be really great.
 
I agree, she has to work on both things to be competitive next season. I just think she might become a better jumper if she wouldn't be so result oriented for one season. But there's always the risk that a new strategy would be wrong and backfire and so I can understand that she and her team want to play it safe. But from what I see right now, the shows she's doing ... I just think that we won't see an improved jumper next season or ever. And that's sad to me because with better jumps she would be really great.

She can't afford to not be result oriented. It's the pre-Olympic season and the depth in Japanese ladies' skating is getting as deeper as the Russians. Mao Asada could rework her technique from scratch after 2010, but she was already a 2-time World Champion and Olympic medalist; not to mention the only other two skaters consistently going to Worlds and then Olympics were Akiko Suzuki and Kanako Murakami. Satoko on the other hand has very strong competition. She hasn't made that much effort; she skated an exhibition program at Fantasy On Ice and Dreams On Ice that only had a 2A and a 3S. THE ICE is the only show where she skated her new FS and tried so many jumps.
 
I got a question: What's the better approach? Skating really fast without having complete control and learning to control the speed (like f.e. Kostner) or skating slower with good control and trying to gain speed in the course of time?

No idea to be honest, but in theory I would say that having to learn to skate fast and controlling the speed may be better than trying to gain speed when you don't know how to go faster. At least with the speed control it's like a car: you drive a sports car really fast but know how to corner it like it's on rails (bonus points for the cultural reference) by slowing it down, rather than being stuck with Mr. Bean's car with a top speed slower than dial-up Internet. Sometimes you just can't fix the make or speed on a machine that isn't equipped to hit that top level.
 
I for one am now an ardent Satoko fan. She did lovely exhibitions in the Japanese ice shows. I saw them on YouTube recently as well as Mao Asada off topic doing BOLERO with Jeff Buttle. It was truly an homage to Torvill and Dean. Check it out.
 
It's clear that Satoko Miyahara generates a wide range of reaction among fans. Why do you think she provokes such contrasting reactions among fans?

I'm not an hater, i think Satoko this season has a real chance to overtake Medvedeva (she won't be that consistent) but that new LP... Polina's gone with wind costume, still tiny jumps (that shouldn't be marked that high) and i found the choreo almost boring.

Also can we discuss Lori nichol choreographies for this season? You can find so many reminiscences from previous Gracie Gold's programs in the new SP for Mao Asada and this LP.
 
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Also can we discuss Lori nichol choreographies for this season? You can find so many reminiscences from previous Gracie Gold's programs in the new SP for Mao Asada and this LP.

Satoko's LP was choreographed by Tom Dickson. It's her SP that was choreographed by Lori Nichol but we haven't seen her SP yet. That said, I don't see any reminiscences from previous Gracie Gold programs in Satoko's new LP.
 
I think the criticisms are based on the limited scale of her jumps, the (slower) speed compared to other top ladies, and very conservative programs. Obviously, she's very talented and has great technique on most elements, but she does very little to draw me into her programs. She looks very shy, so perhaps that's why her programs rarely emote.
 
I love Satoko. Her small jumps don't really bother me because she is so tiny. It's all to scale. I can see how the pre-rotation would make her a difficult skater to judge. Everything else about her skating is just so elegant. Subtle, gentle, and just exquisite. I love last year's long program and I'm excited to see what she brings this year. Since I'm reading that she's improving her jumps, I think she will easily regain her #2 spot.
 
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