State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

[Layback11]

You could never be a curse! Your posts are such a joy to read, and you only want the best for your faves. The season is young, my friend, there is every chance in the world that you will see the results you wish for

:
Means a lot, although I'm not entirely convinced!

 

[TangoTraumatica]

I'm not a fan of Gracie. I find her skating style stiff, and my preference is for more performance-oriented skaters like Ashley. But even as a person who isn't her biggest fan, I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt when it comes to her performance at JO. Her fall on the 3z-3t was kind of nasty. Not a crazy Pogorilaya fall, but she came straight down onto her lowerback/tailbone, without being able to get her hands down under her. Hitting your tailbone can temporarily give you serious pins and needles, and be (temporarily) quite painful. I wouldn't be surprised if that had a lot to do with why she bombed the rest of the program.

 

[topaz emerald]

If there is any "vitriol" against Gracie now its because she was insanely hyped by the USFSA and its lackeys basically a whole year before she even stepped onto senior ice, despite the fact her junior career wasn't exactly the most "OMG WOW." USFSA and her PR team made the expectations that the people hold Gracie to,much to her own detriment, and she isn't living up to them.

Early in her senior career people were giving her the benefit of doubt and patiently waiting for the breakthrough but people are getting tired of waiting, especially since the US ladies aren't challenging for the top spot as they should be. It was already bubbling throughout last season but Worlds was the domino that is knocking all the others down and more people are openly getting irritated, Japan Open makes it worse.

It's worse because its clear as day that despite not living up to any expectations the USFSA still holds her as defacto #1 and the other ladies get paid close to dust. Ashley is where she is only because she fought tooth and nail for herself and Gracie falters so they got no choice, Polina isn't getting any politiking or big push (last years nationals where she should have won overall and the competition that should have been a message from the fed. to Gracie "skate two clean parts or else...") and it feels like to them the other girls almost don't exist. So if there is any "jealously" its because Gracie, who hasn't lived up to the hype, is still getting all the attention much to the detriment of all the other girls.

Yeah, I think USFSA invested too much in her to allow polina to win nationals, but at the same time polina didn't have an inspiring gone with the wind program, so I would say polina lost that competition more than Gracie winning it. Waist down, Gracie is very good, but too stiff waist up. Bit you are right, the USFSA didnt have many options as polina never has a strong showing internationally. Not taking anything away from Ashley's accomplishments but I think she benefited by working with Rafael Arthurian due to his reputation. Nathan Chen and now Mariah bell, whose performance at autumn classic I haven't watched yet. Maybe there is another us male skater I missed.

We just don't have the talent right now for USA ladies figure skating. I haven't seen any american ladies skater back loading their jumps and doing tables or doing choppy rehearsed footwork like the top International skaters right now. Either we are slow to adapting ISU technical changes or lacking in talent or coaching or the whole idea that skating in the US is expensive so it takes longer to develop talent.....

 

[topaz emerald]

I'm not a fan of Gracie. I find her skating style stiff, and my preference is for more performance-oriented skaters like Ashley. But even as a person who isn't her biggest fan, I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt when it comes to her performance at JO. Her fall on the 3z-3t was kind of nasty. Not a crazy Pogorilaya fall, but she came straight down onto her lowerback/tailbone, without being able to get her hands down under her. Hitting your tailbone can temporarily give you serious pins and needles, and be (temporarily) quite painful. I wouldn't be surprised if that had a lot to do with why she bombed the rest of the program.

I have not seen her JO performance yet, yikes

 

[brightphoton]

I was browsing through the comments in this thread trying to find some compliments for Ashley's amazing showing at JO but I was not able to find mush... I really liked her new lyrical image, and how she presented it, her program, her dress, not too mention the fact that she was able to maintain her great technical form through the summer and carry it over into the next season. Why is there always so much hype about Gracie, and there is so little appreciation for Ashley?

Hey! We love Ashley as well as Gracie. Give us some time to watch the videos. They only showed up in YouTube yesterday!

Ashley Wagner
https://youtu.be/kY8vppVOssE

Gracie Gold
https://youtu.be/-Jqe9EaqK74

Ashley: why is everything you do so beautiful??? The cut of Muse's Exogenisis, starting with a piano version and halfway going to a vocal is so powerful. She's so expressive in her body movements, her choreography. That ending face with the music, it's so lovely. Her skating is much improved as well. I was shocked at the level of technical difficulty, and Ashley pulled it off, with only minor mistakes. Even Michelle Kwan in her prime wasn't attempting triple-triples, much less two in one program. Spins looked much better too. Dress design is also so poetic, grey color and sequins fading, like a galaxy.

Gracie: ....................... her hairstyle was nice. I think her dress might be too solidly white because she blends into the ice. Especially when she does the sit spin at 1:50, when she faces the camera she's visible and when her back is to the camera, she disappears. She's like a polar bear.

 

[catchie]

Well Caroline Zhang just won her Regionals with a clean program. She scored 175. 3lo+3lo was ratified. Not bad. :agree:

Wagner, Nagasu and Zhang for Olympic team 2018!! The lost beauties rise again!

 

[franco1991]

Gracie reminds me so much about Carolina pre-2010/2011 season. So much talent in the technical department, able to compete with the very best but just cannot deliver when it counts. As a huge Carolina fan, having lived through some heartbreaking skating from her, I know how difficult it is for Gracie fans to see her like this. From the very beginning "USA" has put so much pressure on her, just like "Italy" put on Caro (times 10). For some skaters media attention is not a big issue, this is not the case for Gracie.
Thankfully for Carolina she found again the love for skating and that inner peace that she was missing and this because she decided from that moment on (2010 olympics, I guess) that she would skate for herself, not for anyone else. Since then she achieved some wonderful results that honestly I knew she could but couldn't believe it anymore. This is the change that Gracie need to make, it need to come from within her, no skating coach can do that for her and I know is much easier said than done. I hope somewhere, somehow she will learn to skate/perform for herself first and then for everyone else.

 

[FlattFan]

I'm sorry and what is wrong with wanting a financial reward? She's one of the best skaters in our country and she's 21. Ashley's narrative of winning her first title while selling Lucky Jeans fits inside of the frame of the American Dream but it is hardly sustainable. Most 21+ year olds are expected to be financially independent and she is trying to do that do while paying Frank and Lori a premium AND being America's latest Nancy Kerrigan. As I said before, you can't be a public figure and not have a social media image. I'm with Gracie. I suggest the community of goldenskate joins me

Nothing's wrong with wanting a financial reward. This is America, darling. Quid pro quo.
The problem is you can't cherry pick the good part. If you want only financial reward via social media, you need to snap out of it. Call it occupational hazard, but the vitriol comes with social media. You know what you signed up for. If you don't like it, delete your account. You don't delete because you don't want to lose out on advertising deals.
Take some heat, get some money. That's all. She's gracie gold, don't you cry for her.

 

[FlattFan]

Gracie reminds me so much about Carolina pre-2010/2011 season. So much talent in the technical department, able to compete with the very best but just cannot deliver when it counts. As a huge Carolina fan, having lived through some heartbreaking skating from her, I know how difficult it is for Gracie fans to see her like this. From the very beginning "USA" has put so much pressure on her, just like "Italy" put on Caro (times 10). For some skaters media attention is not a big issue, this is not the case for Gracie.
Thankfully for Carolina she found again the love for skating and that inner peace that she was missing and this because she decided from that moment on (2010 olympics, I guess) that she would skate for herself, not for anyone else. Since then she achieved some wonderful results that honestly I knew she could but couldn't believe it anymore. This is the change that Gracie need to make, it need to come from within her, no skating coach can do that for her and I know is much easier said than done. I hope somewhere, somehow she will learn to skate/perform for herself first and then for everyone else.

I can see the analogy, but by 2010, Carolina already had a great body of work. You know she's a mess but she has so much potential and her packaging wasn't "wrong"
With Gracie, she's always doing some stupid programs that I never want to watch. I don't see myself waiting to see what she will do next year, unlike Carolina. She needs to step it up, drop Frank, get better programs. If she skates for herself first, I seriously doubt she will skate to those horrific programs.

 

[FlattFan]

Hey! We love Ashley as well as Gracie. Give us some time to watch the videos. They only showed up in YouTube yesterday!

Ashley Wagner
https://youtu.be/kY8vppVOssE

Gracie Gold
https://youtu.be/-Jqe9EaqK74

Ashley: why is everything you do so beautiful??? The cut of Muse's Exogenisis, starting with a piano version and halfway going to a vocal is so powerful. She's so expressive in her body movements, her choreography. That ending face with the music, it's so lovely. Her skating is much improved as well. I was shocked at the level of technical difficulty, and Ashley pulled it off, with only minor mistakes. Even Michelle Kwan in her prime wasn't attempting triple-triples, much less two in one program. Spins looked much better too. Dress design is also so poetic, grey color and sequins fading, like a galaxy.

Michelle at peak was doing 3t-3t.
Now, rewatch her but pay attention to the ice coverage this time around. It's quite bad compare to the other girls. If you sit at the area, and watch the full program, she doesn't really go from one end to another.

 

[cathlen]

So.

Vivian melted down at Regionals

Wait, what? :shocked: Please don't tell me she didin't qualify to sectionals.

 

[Mrs. P]

Wait, what? :shocked: Please don't tell me she didin't qualify to sectionals.

She did, but in the 4th spot, so barely. I'm hoping she recovers -- because Midwestern Sectionals is crazy tough -- although I could see a few girls, Mariah Bell, switching to a different section or getting a bye via an international event.

Me thinks that despite the entry list, Vivian wasn't going to Germany. If she was, she wouldn't have been at regionals in the first place -- usually you get a bye from a qualifying competition if its two weeks within an international event.

Which begs the question of who is actually going to end up in Germany. They haven't even announced the team yet like they did for Estonia --we will probably see something tomorrow. The fact they haven't announced yet tells me they're trying to figure out who to send.

So out of those sub list:

These girls already competed (or at least was entered)
Tessa HONG USA 33 S
Ashley KIM USA 33 S
Gabrielle NOULLET USA 33 S
Ashley LIN USA 33 S
Alexia PAGANINI USA 33 S
Brynne MCISAAC USA 33 S
Megan WESSENBERG USA 33 S

The rest of the sub list:
Maxine BAUTISTA USA 33 S
Haley BEAVERS USA 33 S
Vanna GIANG USA 33 S
Akari NAKAHARA USA 33 S
Nina OUELLETTE USA 33 S
Rebecca PENG USA 33 S
Shannon PORTER USA 33 S
Paige RYDBERG USA 33 S
Alice YANG USA 33 S

Giang (senior in U.S.) and Nakahara (junior) are out, I think, cause they were at regionals with Vivian Le. They have assigned Ashley Kim (and Starr Andrews) to another junior event in Europe later this month, so I don't see her going either.

I could see them sending Haley Beavers since she had to WD from her original event. Or I could also see them sending Ashley Lin for a second event since she did better than the rest (as sad as that result was relatively to the competition).

 

[Vickys21]

Hey! We love Ashley as well as Gracie. Give us some time to watch the videos. They only showed up in YouTube yesterday!

Ashley Wagner
https://youtu.be/kY8vppVOssE

Gracie Gold
https://youtu.be/-Jqe9EaqK74

Ashley: why is everything you do so beautiful??? The cut of Muse's Exogenisis, starting with a piano version and halfway going to a vocal is so powerful. She's so expressive in her body movements, her choreography. That ending face with the music, it's so lovely. Her skating is much improved as well. I was shocked at the level of technical difficulty, and Ashley pulled it off, with only minor mistakes. Even Michelle Kwan in her prime wasn't attempting triple-triples, much less two in one program. Spins looked much better too. Dress design is also so poetic, grey color and sequins fading, like a galaxy.

Gracie: ....................... her hairstyle was nice. I think her dress might be too solidly white because she blends into the ice. Especially when she does the sit spin at 1:50, when she faces the camera she's visible and when her back is to the camera, she disappears. She's like a polar bear.

Why is Gracie putting so much make-up? Her face looks so white. She looks like a ghost. She is so beautiful, she really does not need so much makeup. Her hair also looks overused of dye. I am sorry to be negative but I don't think white dress works on her either. TBH, she seems like she has gained some weight and white accentuates that. I wish she could look and act in a more natural way. What do you guys think of Gracie's packaging and look?

 

[cathlen]

She did, but in the 4th spot, so barely. I'm hoping she recovers -- because Midwestern Sectionals is crazy tough -- although I could see a few girls, Mariah Bell, switching to a different section or getting a bye via an international event.

Me thinks that despite the entry list, Vivian wasn't going to Germany. If she was, she wouldn't have been at regionals in the first place -- usually you get a bye from a qualifying competition if its two weeks within an international event.

Thanks for reply. I was actually suprised reading she competed at Regionals. We'll know about JGP Germany soon enough. I hope she recovers too, she's my fav junior lady along with Alisa Fedichkina, it would be terrible if she didin't compete at Nationals...

 

[Moxiejan]

She did, but in the 4th spot, so barely. I'm hoping she recovers -- because Midwestern Sectionals is crazy tough -- although I could see a few girls, Mariah Bell, switching to a different section or getting a bye via an international event. Me thinks that despite the entry list, Vivian wasn't going to Germany. If she was, she wouldn't have been at regionals in the first place -- usually you get a bye from a qualifying competition if its two weeks within an international event.

Vivian Le skated in Southwestern Pacific regional this year, so her sectional would be Pacific and not Midwestern. Also, I think I've read that qualification rules have changed this year about the effect of sectional byes. For example: Caroline Zhang already had a bye, so her placing 1st in regionals had no effect on qualifiers; the 5th-place skater also would qualify for sectionals.

 

[Mrs. P]

Vivian Le skated in Southwestern Pacific regional this year, so her sectional would be Pacific and not Midwestern. Also, I think I've read that qualification rules have changed this year about the effect of sectional byes. For example: Caroline Zhang already had a bye, so her placing 1st in regionals had no effect on qualifiers; the 5th-place skater also would qualify for sectionals.

You're right!! I always forget Southwestern is with Pacific Sectionals. Well that is good news for her--cause Pacific sectionals is a way easier than Midwestern.

Caroline Zhang had a bye? Why's that?

 

[andromache]

I expect Ashley's ice coverage to improve (though not significantly) as the season goes on. She'll never have the best skating skills, but this is a gorgeous LP, kudos to her for pulling it off with only a few mistakes. Not bad for a 25 year old lady in the first competition of the season. The dress, hair, and lip color choice were all spot-on, too.

I don't hate Gracie's LP, but I don't love it either. Pretty music. I'm just always so sad for her. I like that they're putting the 2A ahead of the 3Lz-3T. I think it's a smart move mentally, long term, as she always hits that 2A.

 

[Moxiejan]

You're right!! I always forget Southwestern is with Pacific Sectionals. Well that is good news for her--cause Pacific sectionals is a way easier than Midwestern.

Caroline Zhang had a bye? Why's that?

I thought she was recently in a senior B, which would have given her a bye (according to the new rule, it no longer had to be within 2 weeks of regionals). But I could be mistaken.

Southwestern regional does indeed feed into Midwestern. But Vivian's was Southwestern Pacific.

 

[Mrs. P]

I thought she was recently in a senior B, which would have given her a bye (according to the new rule, it no longer had to be within 2 weeks of regionals). But I could be mistaken.

Southwestern regional does indeed feed into Midwestern. But Vivian's was Southwestern Pacific.

That's where the mix-up is for me. There's Southwestern, which is Midwestern. But Southwesten Pacific is Pacific.

Caroline Zhang was a sub for a senior B but has not officially been assigned to one. Since the 2 week rule is no longer in effect, then I really think they had no intention of having Vivian go to Germany.

Also, Ashley debuted her SP at Carnival on Ice, though it's a scaled down version (no combo pass). You get a pretty good idea of the overall structure of the program though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li3yfB-2bWg

 

[Khoai]

I still think the best chance to win something big not on home ice belongs to Miss Gold, if she can ever pull herself together.