Just wondering---in the US, the National Champion HAS to be sent to Worlds. Is that true for the Canadian champion, or does Skate Canada have the option to bypass the champion for someone else?
2016-2017 State of Canadian Figure Skating
- Thread starter Mango
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Just wondering---in the US, the National Champion HAS to be sent to Worlds. Is that true for the Canadian champion, or does Skate Canada have the option to bypass the champion for someone else?
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- Jan 27, 2013
Thinking of Wain-gate in the 80's, when Tracey Wainman, then the Canadian bronze medalist (behind Heather Kemkaran and Janet Morrissey) was selected to attend Worlds, owing to the fact that Skate Canada (with only one spot) felt the then 12 year old, was a future world medalist contender. So anything is possible...she finished 14th at Worlds that year in her debut. Kemkaran got the nod for Lake Placid.
Seems like a normal federation decision today, but back then...oh my, the discord.
Seems like a normal federation decision today, but back then...oh my, the discord.
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He wasn't national champion, but Nam Nguyen was sent to Worlds last year when it was actually Liam Firus who earned it. Now, Liam agreed to this, so it is a bit different, but I do think Skate Canada can override the Nationals result. Hahaha, sorry, not very helpful.
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A few years ago Phaneuf and Lacoste were very close at Nationals. Lacoste won but Phaneuf was expected to win. So they waited to decide who would go with a skate off at 4CC. Lacoste placed just higher then Phaneuf at 4CC so SC sent her to worlds.
So no not always the winner goes but usually yes!
Even last year they sent Alaine and Gabby to worlds ahead of Kaetlyn who finished 3rd. They could have chosen to send Kaetlyn ahead of Gabby (finished 2nd) but they still went with the top 2. Again I think this was because the 3 of them were so close in ranking and world expectations.
So no not always the winner goes but usually yes!
Even last year they sent Alaine and Gabby to worlds ahead of Kaetlyn who finished 3rd. They could have chosen to send Kaetlyn ahead of Gabby (finished 2nd) but they still went with the top 2. Again I think this was because the 3 of them were so close in ranking and world expectations.
Skate Canada definitely has some discretion for Worlds and 4CCs as long as the skaters in question have the TES....and they've definitely used this discretion.
There's been a lot of criticism of the decision to send Nam last year. But it was clear that Liam did not have the BV to place high enough to garner a third spot for future. As Liam had been the beneficiary of the last time Canada had three spots in the 2013-14 season, he may have been open to the conversation.
As well, it sounds like Liam's coaching situation in the US was coming to an end for various reasons, with financial considerations with the dropping of the CDN$ against the US$ definitely a factor. There are a good three months between nationals and worlds, and if you plan to make a major change as Liam did, moving on sooner is better. Especially, when the plan was to share a place with his brother Shane who was changing ice dance partners and moving to train in Montreal. So, not sure how much "pressure" was put on Liam by Skate Canada, rather it may have been part of a larger discussion with the high performance team about Liam's next steps.
Keep in mind that Nam was national champion and 5th at worlds in 2015. Nam had managed through the growth so well the previous year that it seems as though SC, Orser and everyone in the situation were taking Nam's relatively poor GP showing and drop at nationals as a short term thing. But clearly, based on Worlds, the situation was worsening rather than improving over spring.
And Kevin Reynolds wasn't ready to go to worlds. He hadn't achieved the minimum TES in 2014 for Worlds, just for 4CC, but even if he had, sending him to Worlds at that point in his rehabilitation after surgery could have set him back.
Yup. I wasn't questioning the decision. Just answering another poster's question and providing an example.
Yup. I wasn't questioning the decision. Just answering another poster's question and providing an example.
Didn't feel you were critical....
More that I thought it would be helpful to provide some analysis for folks who are interested, but haven't been following Skate Canada's decisions over the years. Sounds like we're thinking along the same lines.
I'm really glad to see folks from outside Canada dropping in to participate in the discussion. I recognize though that Skate Canada seems have a number of different traditions, protocols and approaches than other federations that folks outside of Canada won't know about. And while in the past, there was a fair degree of harmonization with the USFSA on testing and judging norms to enable cross-border competition below Juniors, that has really has come to an end in this quadrennial.
On the topic of selections for international assignments, from what I've seen on some other threads, some folks, especially from the US, where US nationals absolutely determines whether skaters get slots for Worlds, make a lot of comments about lack of fairness or transparency when various national federations make choices based on other criteria.
Personally, I believe that a certain amount of discretion in selection is needed, as long as it is not just the decision of one coach. [Which actually happened up to the 1990s in some Olympic sports.] I know that the US used national qualifiers to determine Olympic spots for Rio this year, without even allowance for valid medical exceptions. If Jamaica had followed this approach, Usain Bolt would not have ran in the 100m. He couldn't make Jamaica's qualifier due to a medical situation. And the world would have lost the opportunity to see the man who is arguably the greatest sprinter of all time compete for his third Olympic gold.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Please note:
For better or worse, results at U.S. Nationals do NOT absolutely determine whether U.S. skaters get slots for Worlds.
LOL, we -- the collective membership of GS, including many Americans -- have had tons of discussion on GS for that very reason.
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Thanks IC...for the clarification...
Perhaps it's then fair to say, that there seems to be a significant portion of American fans that believe that nationals, in whatever federation, should determine slots...
For everyone looking forward to Skate Canada Challenge December November 30 to December 4th, Skate Canada has now added to its Challenge main page [as hoped] a tab to the Dailymotion site.
Here's the Challenge main page link. The livestream tab has embedded links to all three rinks. Events will be simultaneous in some cases.
https://skatecanada.ca/event/2017-skate-canada-challenge/
As starting orders and results are on a different tab, I usually open several tabs for Challenge with one set up for results and the others for the three rinks. Last year, there was also a live scoring tab. We'll see if that appears as it's not referenced in the text...
For those not familiar with Challenge, it's the annual qualifier between sectionals and nationals. Members of the national team, and international competitors can get byes directly to nationals, so the level of competition is a bit lower, but some national team members, such as Gabby Daleman come nontheless.
And it's a great event to see the up and coming young skaters from across the country....It's the only national competition for pre-Novice level skaters. And I usually find that my attention at nationals is so focused on the seniors, that I don't always give the novice and junior skaters their due.
Here's the Challenge main page link. The livestream tab has embedded links to all three rinks. Events will be simultaneous in some cases.
https://skatecanada.ca/event/2017-skate-canada-challenge/
As starting orders and results are on a different tab, I usually open several tabs for Challenge with one set up for results and the others for the three rinks. Last year, there was also a live scoring tab. We'll see if that appears as it's not referenced in the text...
For those not familiar with Challenge, it's the annual qualifier between sectionals and nationals. Members of the national team, and international competitors can get byes directly to nationals, so the level of competition is a bit lower, but some national team members, such as Gabby Daleman come nontheless.
And it's a great event to see the up and coming young skaters from across the country....It's the only national competition for pre-Novice level skaters. And I usually find that my attention at nationals is so focused on the seniors, that I don't always give the novice and junior skaters their due.
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- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
IMO, it's impossible to say whether one point of view on USFS selection procedure has more significant support than the other.
When the issue has cropped up, there have been strong feelings (understatement
) on all sides.I say "all" sides, b/c there has been a major "third" side to the discussions on GS:
Some members of GS primarily have wished for USFS to be more transparent and/or more formulaic in how the selection criteria (plural) are applied.
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I am attending CHA, there will some excellent skating in the Novice and Pre-Novice Ladies. We should see new Canadian records in both and in Junior men with S.G.
Welcome to GS syl20C!!!
Thanks for your contribution about COS sectionals. This thread is for all of Canadian skating from pre-juvenile up. It's on the edge, so it's not a fan thread, but we do share news, info, reports and analysis here. and we're always hungry for reports from GS members who have been to sectionals and other Canadian events.
You'll find that Patrick Chan has the most active fan fest. I'm sure you will find a warm welcome there, but we'd be thrilled if you have an interest in posting to the threads of other Canadian skaters as well.
I see that you joined today (at least as a posting member, if not a previous lurker?) Really glad to have more new folks joining in.
Thank you, glad I could join you.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
I completely remember that!! I really liked Cynthia. I have a thing for skaters with good posture and Cynthia, while some found her stiff, had beautiful posture. I saw Emily and Cynthia at Skate Canada 2010. Cynthia had better SS but she had a rough Free Program and opened the door and Amelie walked right through it. It was not a great night for any of the Ladies in the Free. With exception of winner, Alissa Czisny and Ksenia Makarova of Russia. Do you guys remember Agnes Zawadski? She was really good in the SP but, like most of the other skaters did not have a good free Program and dropped from 3rd all the way to 6th.
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Thanks for this!
Looks like she has quite good height and distance for even a junior. I really like how even at this level she jumping with the legs, and has a light and fluid movement. Pre-rotation is there, but less than some seniors currently at the elite level.
Really wish her and other full sectional skates were available. We've been fairly frustrated here that the various Ontario sectionals are still not streamed. Hopefully, this will be revisited by Skate Ontario for future.
Fantastic that you will be there!
Would it be possible to share some live reports? It's always so great to get the perspective of someone who was there.
With regard to US selection criteria for Worlds/Olympics:
ONLY the US champion is guaranteed a berth to Worlds/Olympics. When there are other spots, additional criteria can come into play. In 2014, Gracie Gold won, Polina Edmonds was 2nd, Mirai Nagasu was 3rd, and Ashley Wagner was 4th. But the US sent Gold, Edmunds and Wagner to Olympics and Worlds, not Nagasu, citing performance over the two years leading up to 2014 Nationals. Wagner had been a two-time US champion and GPF medalist during that period, while Nagasu had been 7th at Nationals twice in a row and had inconsistent international results over the same period.
ONLY the US champion is guaranteed a berth to Worlds/Olympics. When there are other spots, additional criteria can come into play. In 2014, Gracie Gold won, Polina Edmonds was 2nd, Mirai Nagasu was 3rd, and Ashley Wagner was 4th. But the US sent Gold, Edmunds and Wagner to Olympics and Worlds, not Nagasu, citing performance over the two years leading up to 2014 Nationals. Wagner had been a two-time US champion and GPF medalist during that period, while Nagasu had been 7th at Nationals twice in a row and had inconsistent international results over the same period.
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- Apr 5, 2016
Welcome to Golden Skate syl20c. Post long, post often! Do you happen to know the Carle family? Thanks for sharing the video.
In regards to NHK, I was a bit
about Alaine. Her PCS were :noshake: For some reason this season she's doing better in the FS. I'd welcome Pina if she went back to it, but I like this program too, especially if she cans skate it clean. I want her to change that layback spin. It's not a stable spin. Meagan & Eric - I knew this would happen. It's nothing new by now. Actually, SCI and Worlds 2016 were likely more of an anomaly when it comes to their marks. They should just focus on doing what they need to do in the FS. Just go with the flow. GOEs and PCS be damned.
Nam - damn bro it was going so well. The judges still think he's not artistic enough though.
Elladj! :thumbsup: Going to Bruno was a great decision. Julie's choreo for this SP is great. Love the entrance into that spin.
And now we await some smooth Prince choreo. No matter the results, I'm just happy to see Tessa & Scott back and competing. I want to see the cool moments, the two decades of partnership on ice, the connection between the two kids from Western Ontario that brought the nation to its feet in 2010.
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