2016-17 State of Russian Ice Dance

[Aqua Lady]

Are you referring to Ilinykh/Katsalapov? Because they split up and are nowhere the calibre they were when they won bronze in Sochi, and their new partnerships are good but not as good as B/S and S/B.

I don't think all hope is lost for Russia getting 3 spots... I could envision B/S getting 4th at Worlds and S/B getting 9th -- it'll take some help, but it's not out of the question.

On the first part, regarding the third-ranked Russian team, I was talking about both S/K and I/Z. On the last part, regarding the Olympic medalists issue, I was talking about I and K as individuals.

B/S getting 4th at Worlds? That's a ridiculous joke. I don't think it should happen and I don't think it will happen. We never know though... When the Russian Fed is desperate, crazy things happen. Desperate times, desperate measures. They might pull the biggest inflation in figure skating history.

 

[bramweld]

The thing with B/S is that I feel like they're the most forgettable team right now. In 10 years time, if someone would ask me who Bobrova and Soloviev are, I'd be like "Who's that?"... Then the person I'm talking to would say "They're the ones who did that horrendous bird program"... And I'd be like "Which one? What are you talking about?"... And for a moment, I would think and realize "Oh them."

With S/B, I see potential. I do have a soft spot for them as well. I love their energy. They just seem like great, fun-loving people and I like that. I think they've been improving and are slowly creeping up the rankings. As much as I would like to see them in the 6-8 range, I just don't see it happening right now. The discipline is too competitive and I believe that they haven't reached their full potential yet. 8th or 9th will be attainable for them, if one of the top teams screw up badly and they skate perfectly... But other than that, 10th seems to be the most realistic outlook for them.

About the third-ranked Russian team, I feel like we shouldn't even be talking about it this time around. Like, there's no point at all. It's NOT happening. Russia will get TWO Olympic spots in Ice Dance for the first time ever. Everyone has got to start accepting that fact. The saddest part about it: The reigning Olympic medalists of the country cannot even qualify for the Olympics

Honestly, ID is probably the most stacked discipline in all of figure skating so its not just that the Russians have their work to do, its just a really competitive field.

TBH, when I look back at S/K, what will always colour my memory of them is how crudely and unkindly they split from their former partners. Years from now though people will always be talking about that Carmen performance I/Z gave at COR 2014. They brought the house down!! That is the stuff that legends are made of. So they are and will always be my sentimental favourites. I do hope this season they can return to their former awesome sauce selves.

As for B/S I might contemplate re-watching their Chess SD and Crazy FD, this after being together for the better part of 20 yrs.

 

[Aqua Lady]

Honestly, ID is probably the most stacked discipline in all of figure skating so its not just that the Russians have their work to do, its just a really competitive field.

TBH, when I look back at S/K, what will always colour my memory of them is how crudely and unkindly they split from their former partners. Years from now though people will always be talking about that Carmen performance I/Z gave at COR 2014. They brought the house down!! That is the stuff that legends are made of. So they are and will always be my sentimental favourites. I do hope this season they can return to their former awesome sauce selves.

As for B/S I might contemplate re-watching their Chess SD and Crazy FD, this after being together for the better part of 20 yrs.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I honestly have no whatsoever respect left for S/K. What they did was/is unforgivable.

I agree with you on I/Z. I loved their Carmen and I loved when they brought the house down at COR. It was like a huge IN YOUR FACE to S/K. I hope they can build incredible programs this coming season... With the Latin and all... GO I/Z! Hopefully, they'll be able to beat S/K once again.

 

[gmyers]

The thing with B/S is that I feel like they're the most forgettable team right now. In 10 years time, if someone would ask me who Bobrova and Soloviev are, I'd be like "Who's that?"... Then the person I'm talking to would say "They're the ones who did that horrendous bird program"... And I'd be like "Which one? What are you talking about?"... And for a moment, I would think and realize "Oh them."

With S/B, I see potential. I do have a soft spot for them as well. I love their energy. They just seem like great, fun-loving people and I like that. I think they've been improving and are slowly creeping up the rankings. As much as I would like to see them in the 6-8 range, I just don't see it happening right now. The discipline is too competitive and I believe that they haven't reached their full potential yet. 8th or 9th will be attainable for them, if one of the top teams screw up badly and they skate perfectly... But other than that, 10th seems to be the most realistic outlook for them.

About the third-ranked Russian team, I feel like we shouldn't even be talking about it this time around. Like, there's no point at all. It's NOT happening. Russia will get TWO Olympic spots in Ice Dance for the first time ever. Everyone has got to start accepting that fact. The saddest part about it: The reigning Olympic medalists of the country cannot even qualify for the Olympics

In SLC no country had more than two spots in ice dance. Was that a rule? How did that happen? So if a country couldn't have more than two spots than 2018 will be the first time Russia didn't maximize its potential entries.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

On the first part, regarding the third-ranked Russian team, I was talking about both S/K and I/Z. On the last part, regarding the Olympic medalists issue, I was talking about I and K as individuals.

B/S getting 4th at Worlds? That's a ridiculous joke. I don't think it should happen and I don't think it will happen. We never know though... When the Russian Fed is desperate, crazy things happen. Desperate times, desperate measures. They might pull the biggest inflation in figure skating history.

Well, they were essentially tied with Cappellini/Lanotte at Euros so that could go either way, and they very well could beat Chock/Bates again like at the GPF. I still think B/S is a top 5 team, but if they end up on the podium that would take some grade AAA politicking. Russia is looking to the Olympics (and unfortunately for I/Z and S/K, neither one panned out (so far) to be a top contender, and S/B has the more promising future), thus the fed obviously opted to push for B/S, so the surge in their scoring is hardly unexpected.

 

[chuckm]

B/S getting 4th at Worlds? That's a ridiculous joke. I don't think it should happen and I don't think it will happen. We never know though... When the Russian Fed is desperate, crazy things happen. Desperate times, desperate measures. They might pull the biggest inflation in figure skating history.

Judges for Worlds 2017 Ice Dance: BLR, CAN, CZE, FRA, GER, GBR, ISR, KOR, RUS, ESP, TUR, UKR, USA

Russia's chances for a high placement depends on
a-the tech team
b-which judges get drawn for the FS.

 

[chuckm]

Well, they were essentially tied with Cappellini/Lanotte at Euros so that could go either way, and they very well could beat Chock/Bates again like at the GPF. I still think B/S is a top 5 team, but if they end up on the podium that would take some grade AAA politicking. Russia is looking to the Olympics (and unfortunately for I/Z and S/K, neither one panned out (so far) to be a top contender, and S/B has the more promising future), thus the fed obviously opted to push for B/S, so the surge in their scoring is hardly unexpected.

B/S beat C/B at the GPF because C/B made a huge mistake in the SD with a fall and were in 6th place. They lost so many points that even though they were 4th in the FD, C/B couldn't climb out of 6th place overall.

C/B have been known for mistakes in early season events but are always spot-on at Worlds. B/S can't depend on other teams' blunders to pave their own path to success.

 

[Ice Dance]

To be fair, B&S had a mistake on their big lift & lost a level during the FD at the GPF. V&M had mistakes in the free at SC. The Shibs had a mistake in the free at U.S. Nationals. W&P missed both sets of twizzles at 4CCs. Hubbell & Donahue had a fall at U.S. Nationals. G&P had a fall at 4CCs.

One might as easily say that C&B can't depend on other teams' blunders to pave their own path to success.

We all know the top 10 dance spots at Worlds will be a battle royale.

 

[gmyers]

Judges for Worlds 2017 Ice Dance: BLR, CAN, CZE, FRA, GER, GBR, ISR, KOR, RUS, ESP, TUR, UKR, USA

Russia's chances for a high placement depends on
a-the tech team
b-which judges get drawn for the FS.

Now you know why Russia gave Russian ice dancers to Spain, Czechia, ROK! Lol.

 

[Ice Dance]

Now you know why Russia gave Russian ice dancers to Spain, Czechia, ROK! Lol.

What ice dancer did Russia give to the Czech Republic? They have two Canadian ladies & two Czech men.

Korea is down to two dance teams, one of whom trains in Canada & the other of which is half American & trains in the U.S.

Spain is sending its second team, which is half British & trains in Canada. It's third team trains in Canada. Its top team from Nationals trains in Russia & is half Russian but doesn't get to go to Worlds (sigh).

Turkey's team is half Russian, but Turkey forced them to leave their Russian training base due to politics. They now train in the U.S.

Israel's team is half Russian & half American & trains in the U.S. But T&T are in direct competition with other Russian teams, which didn't work out so well in Russia's favor at Europeans.

And Ukraine's team was training in Russia but is now in the U.S. as well.

The Belarusian team is half Ukrainian & half Belarusian. They train in Russia at least part of the time.

Britain does have a half Russian team, but they won't be at Worlds. They also have two teams that train in the U.S. and one that trains in Canada.

France also has a half Russian team that is still in Juniors. They train in the U.S. France also has a half Canadian team and two teams that train in Canada.

It's a very small dance world after all.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

B/S beat C/B at the GPF because C/B made a huge mistake in the SD with a fall and were in 6th place. They lost so many points that even though they were 4th in the FD, C/B couldn't climb out of 6th place overall.

C/B have been known for mistakes in early season events but are always spot-on at Worlds. B/S can't depend on other teams' blunders to pave their own path to success.

Hence why I said they can get 4th but they'll likely need help.

C/B had a blunder in the GPF but the judges are giving comparable scores to C/B, C/L, and B/S. So theoretically any of those 3 can vie for 4th (assuming V/M, P/C and the Shibs are on the podium, which is a good bet).

 

[chuckm]

To be fair, B&S had a mistake on their big lift & lost a level during the FD at the GPF. V&M had mistakes in the free at SC. The Shibs had a mistake in the free at U.S. Nationals. W&P missed both sets of twizzles at 4CCs. Hubbell & Donahue had a fall at U.S. Nationals. G&P had a fall at 4CCs.

One might as easily say that C&B can't depend on other teams' blunders to pave their own path to success.

We all know the top 10 dance spots at Worlds will be a battle royale.

C/B skated very well at both US Nationals and 4CC and have medaled at the last two World Championships because they skated well.
Even if C/B skate their best at Worlds 2017, the return of V/M will no doubt keep them off the podium.

 

[gmyers]

What ice dancer did Russia give to the Czech Republic? They have two Canadian ladies & two Czech men.

Korea is down to two dance teams, one of whom trains in Canada & the other of which is half American & trains in the U.S.

Spain is sending its second team, which is half British & trains in Canada. It's third team trains in Canada. Its top team from Nationals trains in Russia & is half Russian but doesn't get to go to Worlds (sigh).

Turkey's team is half Russian, but Turkey forced them to leave their Russian training base due to politics. They now train in the U.S.

Israel's team is half Russian & half American & trains in the U.S. But T&T are in direct competition with other Russian teams, which didn't work out so well in Russia's favor at Europeans.

And Ukraine's team was training in Russia but is now in the U.S. as well.

The Belarusian team is half Ukrainian & half Belarusian. They train in Russia at least part of the time.

Britain does have a half Russian team, but they won't be at Worlds. They also have two teams that train in the U.S. and one that trains in Canada.

France also has a half Russian team that is still in Juniors. They train in the U.S. France also has a half Canadian team and two teams that train in Canada.

It's a very small dance world after all.

From a few years ago Dmitri Kiselev.

This list makes it clear that almost every judge really has a vested interest in boosting North American teams.

But really the only important people now are the technical panel. Technical panel 90% power judges like 10%.

 

[Ice Dance]

C/B skated very well at both US Nationals and 4CC and have medaled at the last two World Championships because they skated well.

I don't disagree. I simply don't see a reason to dismiss other teams for their own strong performances. Bobrova & Soloviev have been, by far, the most consistent competitors for Russia over the past two seasons. It isn't enough, IMO, to make them favorites over C&B, C&L, or W&P. But it is enough to put B&S into the conversation for the final group. Which is quite an achievement for a team that lost an entire season due to serious injury & their own national ranking at the Olympics in 2014. A good many teams would have quit after facing all that & having it followed up by last year's ban from Worlds. They didn't. They've stuck through the challenges together, and I give them a lot of credit for that. I like them.

Though I love the Shibs, Cappellini & Lanotte, and Weaver & Poje even more.

 

[Ice Dance]

This list makes it clear that almost every judge really has a vested interest in boosting North American teams.

Yawn. Except for the fact that 9 of the judges are European.

 

[Ares]

I wondered what was going on with Yanovskaya after split ... and now I know. She found new partner Lukacs from Hungary and is set to represent this country.

 

[gmyers]

Yawn. Except for the fact that 9 of the judges are European.

The judges are European but their countries ice dancers train in the US. Give an American team a good score and maybe their american coach will spend some more time with your skaters.

 

[gmyers]

Juniors 2nd 4th 5th. after sp 1st 3rd 4th. Radical free dance reforms needed.

 

[gmyers]

Bestemianova is campaigning against bobrova/soloviev

http://spb.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/967399

- Stepanova and Bukin were fifth at the European Championships. What do you expect from them in the "world"?
- I'm waiting for a good performance. I'm sure they are better than our first pair ( Bobrov / Soloviev .- Ed. ). Believe me, my opinion is not biased. But no one listens to me. At the European Championships, all efforts were thrown to make the first couple champions. Stepanova and Bukin were sold and pushed aside. They put forward an Israeli couple who had never won them before. As a result: Bobrova / Soloviev third, Stepanova / Bukin - the fifth, and all this mouse fuss did not bring anything good either one or the other.

- Apparently, this is done for good purposes - to tighten our leaders with an eye to the Olympics.
- It is impossible to pull those who do not pull! It was a shame. The refereeing brigade, which served the European Championship, must be unhooked from refereeing for many years. How can it be that at first the winner of a short program is announced one pair, and in two hours - another. This has never happened!

 

[elif]

Bestemianova is campaigning against bobrova/soloviev

http://spb.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/967399

- Stepanova and Bukin were fifth at the European Championships. What do you expect from them in the "world"?
- I'm waiting for a good performance. I'm sure they are better than our first pair ( Bobrov / Soloviev .- Ed. ). Believe me, my opinion is not biased. But no one listens to me. At the European Championships, all efforts were thrown to make the first couple champions. Stepanova and Bukin were sold and pushed aside. They put forward an Israeli couple who had never won them before. As a result: Bobrova / Soloviev third, Stepanova / Bukin - the fifth, and all this mouse fuss did not bring anything good either one or the other.

- Apparently, this is done for good purposes - to tighten our leaders with an eye to the Olympics.
- It is impossible to pull those who do not pull! It was a shame. The refereeing brigade, which served the European Championship, must be unhooked from refereeing for many years. How can it be that at first the winner of a short program is announced one pair, and in two hours - another. This has never happened!

Thanks Bestemianova! Always makes me laugh.

I can't believe they are crying over Tobias/Tkachenko who only skates their second year this season. Tobias/Tkachenko was 12th last at Worlds (first year by the way) while Stepanova/Bukin was 11. Such a big gap, can you believe they close it? Bestemianova can't...

Stepanova/Bulin was very lucky in Europeans because Guignard/Fabbri who beats them consistently made big mistakes on free dance.Of course they only talk about Tobias/Tkachenko never beat them up. There was not enough time for that, but that is not important for great, amazing, smart russian coaches.