2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[Skatingcat]

I really want Mirai to be on the Olympic team this year. I'm astonished at how much I enjoy her skating this season, and her demeanor/go-getting attitude. She hasn't turned into an overly-media trained doll.

So I guess right now I'm thinking Wagner, Mirai, and Chen. Of course the season has just begun and things can change.

 

[humbaba]

The junior ladies competition at Salt Lake City was interesting and I'm wondering how the results might impact international assignments. Alysa Liu scored 105.89 in the FS and took the gold. However, she is too young for international junior competitions. Silver medalist Audrey Shin was first in the short, but placed fourth in the LP. She's listed as a sub on the JGP, but I don't think these results helped her chances of getting an assignment. Lily Sun was fourth in the short, but finished second in the free and pulled up to the bronze medal position. No hope for a JGP for Lily, as she's not listed as a sub and isn't even in the ISP. However, she finished ahead of several skaters who are JGP subs and listed in the ISP.

I'm thinking the results here might increase the odds that Starr and/or Emmy get a second JGP assignment. Also, I'm hoping USFS will add Lily to the international selection pool and send her to an international junior comp somewhere.

 

[mirai4life]

Again I am disappointed by Mirai in her reaction video. Use your words, Mirai. Don't use "like" and "um". I'm sure you can speak in a normal tone of voice too. Yes it's sassy (love the RuPaul reference!), but it's as if she is trying to sound airheaded. Is this the way she usually speaks? I hope not.

you must be fun at parties.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Takeaways from this weekend:

Poor Paige. I think her TES score at US classic was less than 30? She has a superb 3toe-3toe but lacks energy and consistency.

Judges willing to reward Bradie's TES. What might hold her back is her PCS. But as of now she's most consistent US lady.

Karen still struggling with underrotations.

 

[Hockeyguy]

Karen's dress is to die for. Come to think of it, I've never seen her in a dress that wasn't stunning. Someone should have this girl OK all costumes that get put out there. Especially for ice dance in a year when we have Latin.

Congratulations Mirai on that Axel. This definitely stirs things up.

Again I am disappointed by Mirai in her reaction video. Use your words, Mirai. Don't use "like" and "um". I'm sure you can speak in a normal tone of voice too. Yes it's sassy (love the RuPaul reference!), but it's as if she is trying to sound airheaded. Is this the way she usually speaks? I hope not.

This is the way almost all young girls speak when they are with friends and being a little silly. It doesn't mean they are immature or unintelligent, although it can seem that way to the older generation.

I find all of the girls charming in their different ways of describing their program, I enjoy listening to Karen Chen and watching her seriousness crack a little with a smile is just as endearing as Nagasu's whimsical stuff.

 

[Blades of Passion]

The callers go through extensive training on how to review each element. That includes the subject of pre-rotation.

False. The training in place for determining jump rotations is very rudimentary.

ETA: There indeed is a "consistent tech requirement" on pre-rotation.

False again. There is nothing in the rules that defines where jump rotation should be counted as starting. The one rule you did quote is essentially meaningless and only applied to toe-axels, which is something nobody except little kids ever does. Virtually everyone does a "clear forwards takeoff" on the loop and salchow by the time they leave the ice and quite a few people do a "clear backwards takeoff" on the axel by the time they leave the ice. It's never deducted.

 

[Moxiejan]

False. The training in place for determining jump rotations is very rudimentary.

From the USFSA webpage on IJS: "Technical specialists have to meet certain qualifications and pass written and oral exams to be appointed to the position. Most technical specialists are national and international skaters or coaches and are involved in skating on a regular basis."

Rudimentary training? Hardly.

 

[Moxiejan]

False again. There is nothing in the rules that defines where jump rotation should be counted as starting. The one rule you did quote is essentially meaningless and only applied to toe-axels, which is something nobody except little kids ever does. Virtually everyone does a "clear forwards takeoff" on the loop and salchow by the time they leave the ice and quite a few people do a "clear backwards takeoff" on the axel by the time they leave the ice. It's never deducted.

1. Within just one paragraph, you stated that "there is nothing in the rules" that defines the start of jump rotation and then criticized "the one rule" I quoted (from the IJS tech handbook) as being "essentially meaningless." Make up your mind: Is there something in the rules or not something in the rules?

2. Also within one paragraph, you stated (incorrectly, since the IJS "pre-rotation cheat" definition covers ALL jumps) that the rule "only applied to toe-axels, which is something nobody except little kids ever does" and then said that "virtually everyone does a clear forwards takeoff of the loop and salchow" ... which, um, would be toe axels! So, again, make up your mind: Are toe axels only done by little kids or are they "never deducted" when done in competition by "virtually everyone"?

 

[mrrice]

Sorry but you're wrong. There is no training given in the technical specialist

I would imagine that a technical specialist needs to have been technically special. The only one I know of is Vanessa Gusmeroli and I want to say that Julia Sebastian is one as well. They were both great skaters and champions of their respective Countries.

I took this straight from Technical Specialist Page on the Judging Site.


A. Basic Information

1. have the highest knowledge of Figure Skating (single), Pair Skating, Ice Dancing or Synchronized Skating with regard to technical aspects;

2. must have reached the age of 24 but not the age of 65 in the calendar year of nomination;

3. must conduct ice skating activities on a regular basis and be able to demonstrate awareness of and participation in the current activities of competitive figure skating as well as maturity level consistent with public perception of this position;

4. must be a former high level skater (as a minimum at national level)

5. must have a good knowledge of spoken English language;

6. must possess good communication skills;

7. have the ability to conduct themselves professionally at all times;

8. must be able to take directions and work within a team environment;

9. must have completed an ISU seminar and successfully passed an examination.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Sorry but you're wrong. There is little to no training given in the technical specialist certification process with regards to how to properly ascertain jump rotations. They only focus on basic aspects of jumps and ignore varying techniques and specifics of jumps that are necessary to understand and look at. Thus in the end it just comes down to each individual caller. Some callers may understand and pay attention to how skaters use the toepick to spin on the ice during takeoffs, but the majority do not. Particularly because callers will usually only decide to "pay attention" when someone develops a reputation and in the end they don't have to give any detailed reasoning for the calls they make, they just get to make the call and that's it.

 

[Moxiejan]

Sorry but you're wrong. There is little to no training given in the technical specialist certification process with regards to how to properly ascertain jump rotations. They only focus on basic aspects of jumps and ignore varying techniques and specifics of jumps that are necessary to understand and look at. Thus in the end it just comes down to each individual caller. Some callers may understand and pay attention to how skaters use the toepick to spin on the ice during takeoffs, but the majority do not. Particularly because callers will usually only decide to "pay attention" when someone develops a reputation and in the end they don't have to give any detailed reasoning for the calls they make, they just get to make the call and that's it.

How exactly is it that you know all this? Have you attended the ISU seminar and taken the tech exams?

For Mr. Rice: To your list of former skaters/coaches who serve in various tech roles, add David Santee and Peter Cain.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Within just one paragraph, you stated that "there is nothing in the rules" that defines the start of jump rotation and then criticized "the one rule" I quoted (from the IJS tech handbook) as being "essentially meaningless." Make up your mind: Is there something in the rules or not something in the rules?

The rule you quote has nothing to do with determining where a jump starts and counting jump rotation. It simply says jumps will receive a deduction for taking off in the opposite direction from what they are defined as. In actuality this only ever applies to toeloops where people turn the skating foot (not just the toepick foot) to forwards - a toe axel. Nobody does that, everyone is taught not do, but people DO commonly turn to forwards on the toepick foot...or even past forwards (which is flawed technique and not covered by the ISU).

Also within one paragraph, you stated that the rule "only applied to toe-axels, which is something nobody except little kids ever does" and then said that "virtually everyone does a clear forwards takeoff of the loop and salchow" ... which, um, would be toe axels! So, again, make up your mind: Are toe axels only done by little kids or are they "never deducted" when done in competition by "virtually everyone"?

You don't seem to understand what a toe axel is, nor the fact that the ISU doesn't enforce their own rule as written. It's not enforced because most everyone understands the rule is flawed and it is simply ignored. As I said before, virtually everyone turns to forward with the skating foot on the Loop and Salchow. People don't actually leave the ice on a back edge - they turn on the ice and spring off from the toepick facing forward.

The same goes for the axel, where some people do a full half-turn on the ice and in effect take-off backwards. The rule is never applied. If it was, then people like Zagitova would never be getting credit for their axels (and nobody would be getting credit for their Loops or Salchows).

How exactly is it that you know all this? Have you attended the ISU seminar?

Yes.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

 

[kresslia]

Again I am disappointed by Mirai in her reaction video. Use your words, Mirai. Don't use "like" and "um". I'm sure you can speak in a normal tone of voice too. Yes it's sassy (love the RuPaul reference!), but it's as if she is trying to sound airheaded. Is this the way she usually speaks? I hope not.

You've gotta be kidding. She's a young woman giving an honest reaction following her performance. This is not a formal speech. It is a reaction video. This is her reaction.

I will take her honesty ANY DAY over the usual "there was a lot of good stuff but also a lot of work to be done" response.

 

[Moxiejan]

The rule you quote has nothing to do with determining where a jump starts and counting jump rotation. It simply says jumps will receive a deduction for taking off in the opposite direction from what they are defined as.

Huh? Wouldn't "where a jump starts" (for counting rotation) be the same as where a jump takes off?

Thus, the rule that mandates a deduction for a pre-rotation cheat of a half-turn is exactly what you have just said: "taking off in the opposite direction from what they are defined as."

 

[Blades of Passion]

Mirai's responses were great and a breath of fresh air.

This is pretty much all you ever respond with. Do you expect it to accomplish something? Are you scared of learning?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Mirai's responses were great and a breath of fresh air.



This is pretty much all you ever respond with. Do you expect it to accomplish something? Are you scared of learning?

First of all, I have plenty of responses that are far more informational than your delusional ones will ever be. Secondly, I never quoted you so paranoid much? Get a better hobby.

 

[frida80]

You've gotta be kidding. She's a young woman giving an honest reaction following her performance. This is not a formal speech. It is a reaction video. This is her reaction.

I will take her honesty ANY DAY over the usual "there was a lot of good stuff but also a lot of work to be done" response.

That's the generic response from every skater! It's so boring. Like you have to give a blanket statement rather than say how you feel. Ugh...

I follow Mirai on on instagram. She's just like this and super cute. So I wasn't surprised. Her personality would play well on camera.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Huh? Wouldn't "where a jump starts" (for counting rotation) be the same as where a jump takes off?

From the point a jump starts, a person can pre-rotate a very different amount, until the jump eventually leaves the ice. On the lutz or flip you might see 0 pre-rotation, but this is becoming very rare. Basically 1/2 turn of pre-rotation (which means the toepick foot for toepick jumps) can be considered "acceptable" for any jump, but people often go past that amount, which is problematic.

Regardless, this isn't talked about at all in the ISU rules, and in practice the callers often just decide an arbitrary takeoff point based upon the direction of the skating foot in the early phase of the jump. They don't take any other important factors into consideration, except the one case of a clear "toe axel" on the toeloop, where the skating foot itself turns all the way to forward. This one case isn't used as a way to count rotation either, it's just an automatic deduction.

Thus, the rule that mandates a deduction for a pre-rotation cheat of a half-turn is exactly what you have just said: "taking off in the opposite direction from what they are defined as."

Sigh, I'll reiterate. Virtually EVERYONE pre-rotates 1/2 turn on the Loop, Salchow, and Toeloop (on the toepick foot). People also commonly pre-rotate 1/2 turn on the Axel and on the toepick foot of the Lutz and Flip.

The ISU rule is nonsensical and thus it is ignored, except in the specific case of turning all the way to forwards with the skating foot of toepick jumps (which nobody actually does). A skater doing a toe-axel doesn't mean they have pre-rotated more in terms of where the jump fully leaves the ice, it's a different form of technique failure. Some people pre-rotate 3/4 of a turn on their toeloops without doing a toe-axel.

First of all, I have plenty of responses that are far more informational than your delusional ones will ever be.

No you don't. You've been proven wrong at every turn when you try to talk specifics in these recent discussions. Instead of giving any real response, you've generally been attempting to paint me as delusional with micro-aggression responses, because you're mad about certain skaters or ideas being challenged and you can't handle it. Please be open to education.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

No you don't. You've been proven wrong at every turn when you try to talk specifics in these recent discussions. Instead of giving any real response, you attempt to paint me as delusional with your non-responses, because you're mad about certain skaters or ideas being challenged and you can't handle it. Please educate yourself.

:sarcasm: