Anna Pogorilaya
- Thread starter dorispulaski
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2016
I'm totally down with it, but I don't speak Russian either. If it's digital fan art, I guess we can @ her on instagram, though she does not seem active on instagram nowadays. It would be great if someone knows how to get things to her, maybe mail things to Sambo 70? I will try to ask Polina if they will be able to receive packages from Sambo 70 at Skate America if I get a chance.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
On the one hand, I am relieved that she has withdrawn. Because she needs to properly recover from her injury.
But, on the other hand, I am really concerned with what I am reading about her not seeing a doctor since Canada.
After I watched the Skate Canada FS, I wrote a long comment for the thread in The Edge about Anna's back issues. And I really let rip. But, I never posted it, because the Cup of China was starting the following day, and consequently the focus had moved onto it.
But, after reading the latest news, I felt I needed to post it. So, here it is:
Now, I realise that this is very strong language for a Fan Fest. Which is why I was intending to put that comment into the other thread at the time.
But, I decided to post it here now because in a situation like this, we, her most devoted fans, need to take off our rose-tinted glasses and look at things in the real light. And we will realise that if things continue the way they are, our girl is in real danger of suffering an injury that she will not be able to fully recover from.
And none of us want that to happen.
CaroLiza_fan
But, on the other hand, I am really concerned with what I am reading about her not seeing a doctor since Canada.
After I watched the Skate Canada FS, I wrote a long comment for the thread in The Edge about Anna's back issues. And I really let rip. But, I never posted it, because the Cup of China was starting the following day, and consequently the focus had moved onto it.
But, after reading the latest news, I felt I needed to post it. So, here it is:
I didn't get watching the Ladies Free Skate until this morning, and because of that I had been avoiding this thread, in case I got spoilers.
But now that I have returned, I have to say that I am shocked to see some of the things that are being said in this thread. For anybody to even suggest that she might be faking those falls is just unbelievable.
The type of falls Anna has are not the sort of thing you would want to do if you didn't have to. Those are the type of falls that can cause serious injuries. For example, back injuries. And back injuries are not something to joke about.
Just ask the girl in my avatar. She is currently working back to where she was before she suffered a back injury 2 seasons ago. And although Giorgia's environment is very different to Anna's, I imagine that they are both driven by the same determination.
Determination to come back can be a double-edged sword. It can lead you to push yourself too hard, which could do more harm than good. Or it could lead you to play down what is wrong with you, which is a very dangerous game indeed.
Of course, if you succeed in getting back to where you were, it is an amazing achievement. But, if you hurt yourself again in the process of coming back, you could end up in a far worse situation than before.
From what I have read this morning, both here and in her Fan Fest (FS conversation starts here), there is no way that Anna should have been competing in Skate Canada. I know that this is an Olympic season and all that, but her health is the most important thing. And any coach worth their salt would know that, and put that first.
I know for the past few years we have been poking fun at Anna Tsareva for never looking happy. But, if she put Anna into this competition knowing that she wasn’t fit, then that just shows that success is more important for her than the wellbeing of her charge. And if that is true, then that is VERY concerning.
But, of course, we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes.
Apart from letting Anna P. compete when she was clearly not fit to, I have other concerns about Anna Tsareva’s coaching.
I admit that I don’t know anything about Tsareva’s background. Was she a competitive skater herself once upon a time? Did she coach anybody before Anna? Because, apart from Ignatenko, all the students (current and former) that are listed on her fskate.ru profile are either the same age as Anna or younger. And that has started me wondering about Tsareva’s level of experience when Anna joined her.
I do Ju-Jitsu, and the first thing you are taught is how to fall properly to avoid hurting yourself. And I would imagine that it is the same in figure skating. Now, I realise that Tsareva wasn’t Anna’s first coach. So, she isn’t completely to blame. But, surely if you take on a new student, you check if they know the fundamental basics. And if they don’t, the first thing you do is teach them.
Tsareva has been coaching Anna for nearly 15 years now. The way Anna falls is something that should have been dealt with years ago. And if it had been sorted out long ago, I am confident that Anna would not be experiencing the injuries she currently is.
In short, it is my opinion that all of Anna’s problems are down to having a coach who, when she started working with her, was not experienced enough and did not instill the basics.
And I strongly believe that if Anna Pogorilaya wants to recover from her injuries and get back to being the skater that we know she is more than capable of being, she needs to get a new coach.
Not some time in the future. Right now. Before she is put in any more danger.
That last statement may sound melodramatic. But, in this type of situation, we have to be blunt: Anna skating with the injuries she has, but not being able to fall properly, is putting her in danger.
And her health and her safety is the most important thing.
CaroLiza_fan
But now that I have returned, I have to say that I am shocked to see some of the things that are being said in this thread. For anybody to even suggest that she might be faking those falls is just unbelievable.
The type of falls Anna has are not the sort of thing you would want to do if you didn't have to. Those are the type of falls that can cause serious injuries. For example, back injuries. And back injuries are not something to joke about.
Just ask the girl in my avatar. She is currently working back to where she was before she suffered a back injury 2 seasons ago. And although Giorgia's environment is very different to Anna's, I imagine that they are both driven by the same determination.
Determination to come back can be a double-edged sword. It can lead you to push yourself too hard, which could do more harm than good. Or it could lead you to play down what is wrong with you, which is a very dangerous game indeed.
Of course, if you succeed in getting back to where you were, it is an amazing achievement. But, if you hurt yourself again in the process of coming back, you could end up in a far worse situation than before.
From what I have read this morning, both here and in her Fan Fest (FS conversation starts here), there is no way that Anna should have been competing in Skate Canada. I know that this is an Olympic season and all that, but her health is the most important thing. And any coach worth their salt would know that, and put that first.
I know for the past few years we have been poking fun at Anna Tsareva for never looking happy. But, if she put Anna into this competition knowing that she wasn’t fit, then that just shows that success is more important for her than the wellbeing of her charge. And if that is true, then that is VERY concerning.
But, of course, we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes.
Apart from letting Anna P. compete when she was clearly not fit to, I have other concerns about Anna Tsareva’s coaching.
I admit that I don’t know anything about Tsareva’s background. Was she a competitive skater herself once upon a time? Did she coach anybody before Anna? Because, apart from Ignatenko, all the students (current and former) that are listed on her fskate.ru profile are either the same age as Anna or younger. And that has started me wondering about Tsareva’s level of experience when Anna joined her.
I do Ju-Jitsu, and the first thing you are taught is how to fall properly to avoid hurting yourself. And I would imagine that it is the same in figure skating. Now, I realise that Tsareva wasn’t Anna’s first coach. So, she isn’t completely to blame. But, surely if you take on a new student, you check if they know the fundamental basics. And if they don’t, the first thing you do is teach them.
Tsareva has been coaching Anna for nearly 15 years now. The way Anna falls is something that should have been dealt with years ago. And if it had been sorted out long ago, I am confident that Anna would not be experiencing the injuries she currently is.
In short, it is my opinion that all of Anna’s problems are down to having a coach who, when she started working with her, was not experienced enough and did not instill the basics.
And I strongly believe that if Anna Pogorilaya wants to recover from her injuries and get back to being the skater that we know she is more than capable of being, she needs to get a new coach.
Not some time in the future. Right now. Before she is put in any more danger.
That last statement may sound melodramatic. But, in this type of situation, we have to be blunt: Anna skating with the injuries she has, but not being able to fall properly, is putting her in danger.
And her health and her safety is the most important thing.
CaroLiza_fan
Now, I realise that this is very strong language for a Fan Fest. Which is why I was intending to put that comment into the other thread at the time.
But, I decided to post it here now because in a situation like this, we, her most devoted fans, need to take off our rose-tinted glasses and look at things in the real light. And we will realise that if things continue the way they are, our girl is in real danger of suffering an injury that she will not be able to fully recover from.
And none of us want that to happen.
CaroLiza_fan
I'm too sad .... I really want her to come ... but I think is better loose a competition and get proper treatment ... And if her coach new about the injury and keep forcing her the russian federation should punish her
SO GO ANNA AND GET WELL SOON!!!
SO GO ANNA AND GET WELL SOON!!!
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2012
It might come down to exactly the thing that we discussed earlier, Anna Tsareva having no experience in how to handle Anna's situation. Eteri Tudberidze, whatever you might think of her, does seem the kind of coach that looks after her top students best interest. And Tudberidze has many skaters she has to look after, at the top level, so is quite busy. And then there is the fact that the federation never cared about Anna. She's lost medals and placements because she was a newbie, Number 3, doesn't have a powerful coach - so there was never politicking to make her evolve. They have so many good skaters, there is no need to nurture or care for one individual. All but Evgenia are replaceable. It's sad, but I think this is how it is.
The Russian fed has maintained support for Yulia in her crisis and even for Alena Leonova despite a whole lot of better alternatives at their disposal. And no doubt they are aware of the great potential she has shown as well as the notable attention the public pays to her. I don't think they will dump Anna so easily when there is still a chance for her to recover. Politicking or not, they are not known to be that wasteful with the talents they have.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2014
You must not be familiar with Adian Pitkeev's story, how he was pressured to compete with his back problems and had to retire at the ripe old age of 18. I have deja vu.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2012
Well, I think both Yulia and Alena were of different worth to Russia and also there just simply weren't as many top Ladies around back then. I think it will be quite interesting to see who the three Ladies are that go to the Olympics, to see how much still involves Politics. That third spot, will it go to Polina or Maria?
Other than that, please explain to me why Anna did not get treatment until now? People always go on about the power of the federation, but why did that happen? Did Anna or Anna Tsareva refuse help? Refuse a visit to specialist? Skate Canada was a month ago. There was enough time. Actually it's a problem that should have had the Russian feds attention long before Skate Canada. Sometimes people need to be saved, if they cannot make the decision themselves. For the almighty Russian Federation they show a serious lack of interest when it comes to Anna Pogorilaya.
We do not know how the two Annas have so far perceived the issues both with the back injury and the Helsinki memories, and neither how well informed the fed was about their situation. In Yulia's case the fed wasn't so quick to intervene either. Anna's team surely had no interest to play up any problems while going into an olympic season with her spot already challenged. But the fed has offered to pay for treatment abroad, so they still do seem to bother. Let's sit back, see what happens and keep thumbs pressed for Anna, that's the only thing we can do anyway.
To the Alifyre's link on the previous page
"After coming back from Canada we started to work with Victor Adonyev on choreography, that the program became even more impressive, additionally engaged Victor Kudryavtsev to work on jumps and everything was rolling on fine, - said Pogorilaya over the phone. - After that I caught a cold, skipped several trainings and when I got back on the ice started to speed up working process, because I was afraid to lose time. That's why the back acted up again. At present I am temporally not training."
The interlocutress noted that had seen no point to appeal to doctors just after Canada."All specialists tell the same things: there's a need to decrease loads on the back maximally, - elucidated sportswoman. Thus we got limited oneselves to physiotheraphy and the thing that began working out (as I understand "zakachivat'" means lifting weight, gym; strange how it can combines with reducing of loads, anyway... so, work-out) the back. I have underwent (medical) assessment earlier, after the Cup of Russia's stage in Yoshkar-Ola, where I had had to withdraw after the short program. At that moment my coach Anna Tsaryova was seriously frightened: it has never occurred before that I couldn't move because of pain, couldn't take off the skates, the costume."
"In Moscow it has been discovered that I had had compression fracture of spine once (it isn't aware of when exactly), which has healed up already and can't bother. As I understood, my problem is that during the deflection (bending of the back) the ligaments in the back become squeezed (clenched), it leads to squeezing of nerve endings and then starts chain reaction: appears inflammation, sometimes so much severe that it is enough a minor movement for recidivism (relapse). For instance, a violent entry into rotation (spinning). And as a matter of fact I can't even skate at the moment, not to speak of jumps," - continued Pogorilaya.
Well... Alifyre, jiawen2016, MaiKatze, MRani... Girls, boys, ladies... guys, people. Doesn't matter. Sometimes I do my best as a Russian speaking, a Russian living and a Russian fan of Figure Skating, and translate some stuff. As much accurate as I can, as my knowledge of English language allows me, with help of Google, Reverso, dictionaries, etc. Sorry for any mistakes in articles, gerund, past perfect time and times in general, grammar in general. What else... It is my remarks in the brackets. Oh, yeah. I might help You with Russian language for Your action of support for Anna. Unfortunately I don't have a direct communication channel to Anna, however something might be done through her support group in VK, I guess. But... maybe in exchange I would like to ask You, English-speaking commrades, for a favour. Later. In one job. Maybe. But anyway I will help You if I can.
"After coming back from Canada we started to work with Victor Adonyev on choreography, that the program became even more impressive, additionally engaged Victor Kudryavtsev to work on jumps and everything was rolling on fine, - said Pogorilaya over the phone. - After that I caught a cold, skipped several trainings and when I got back on the ice started to speed up working process, because I was afraid to lose time. That's why the back acted up again. At present I am temporally not training."
The interlocutress noted that had seen no point to appeal to doctors just after Canada."All specialists tell the same things: there's a need to decrease loads on the back maximally, - elucidated sportswoman. Thus we got limited oneselves to physiotheraphy and the thing that began working out (as I understand "zakachivat'" means lifting weight, gym; strange how it can combines with reducing of loads, anyway... so, work-out) the back. I have underwent (medical) assessment earlier, after the Cup of Russia's stage in Yoshkar-Ola, where I had had to withdraw after the short program. At that moment my coach Anna Tsaryova was seriously frightened: it has never occurred before that I couldn't move because of pain, couldn't take off the skates, the costume."
"In Moscow it has been discovered that I had had compression fracture of spine once (it isn't aware of when exactly), which has healed up already and can't bother. As I understood, my problem is that during the deflection (bending of the back) the ligaments in the back become squeezed (clenched), it leads to squeezing of nerve endings and then starts chain reaction: appears inflammation, sometimes so much severe that it is enough a minor movement for recidivism (relapse). For instance, a violent entry into rotation (spinning). And as a matter of fact I can't even skate at the moment, not to speak of jumps," - continued Pogorilaya.
Well... Alifyre, jiawen2016, MaiKatze, MRani... Girls, boys, ladies... guys, people. Doesn't matter. Sometimes I do my best as a Russian speaking, a Russian living and a Russian fan of Figure Skating, and translate some stuff. As much accurate as I can, as my knowledge of English language allows me, with help of Google, Reverso, dictionaries, etc. Sorry for any mistakes in articles, gerund, past perfect time and times in general, grammar in general. What else... It is my remarks in the brackets. Oh, yeah. I might help You with Russian language for Your action of support for Anna. Unfortunately I don't have a direct communication channel to Anna, however something might be done through her support group in VK, I guess. But... maybe in exchange I would like to ask You, English-speaking commrades, for a favour. Later. In one job. Maybe. But anyway I will help You if I can.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2017
Thank you for providing a better translation Santey! I was wondering, what are the Russian fans' perspective on the handling of Anya's injury? I am very frustrated for Anna and with the whole situation, but I am American and don't know much about the inner workings of Russian sports.
Also, I would love if you could check with the Russian VK group to see if anyone knows of any ways to send fan messages to Anna! I don't speak enough Russian to actually communicate with any of them...
Also, I would love if you could check with the Russian VK group to see if anyone knows of any ways to send fan messages to Anna! I don't speak enough Russian to actually communicate with any of them...
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
I agree. Tutberidze has too many students as it is to give them all the attention they deserve. And Anna's situation is such that she needs somebody that will give her a lot of attention.
First and foremost, Anna needs a coach that will let her get fully recovered from her injuries, rather than expecting her to carry on.
But, once that stage is over, Anna's coach needs to be somebody who is be able to take her back and teach her those basic things that she is missing in a manner that is not patronising. Because, let's face it, this is a skater who has won GP's at both Junior and Senior level, and finished on the podium at World Championships at both Junior and Senior level.
She knows how to skate well. It's just that she hasn't learnt how to fall well.
Once that is fixed, she could be a real force again. And I for one would love to see her prove all the naysayers wrong.
So, we need a coach who would be good at doing this for an “older” skater (boys, but it seems strange describing somebody that is still in their teens as “older”!)
Anybody spring to mind?
CaroLiza_fan
It was my pleasure to help.
Umm, I guess you mean what all of us are thinking about injury and on what we are hoping to. Well, Russians slightly differ from others in that meaning. I am reading our FSO forum and talkings there almost the same. All of us discussed the incident in K&C zone in the same way and many other stuff (from the last, regarding Alina's performance). So, the Russian fans can only carry hopes like all others. But all of us are almost certain that Anya in that condition is not the choice for the Federation to go to the Olympics. Unfortunately.
No problem, but I would like you to tell me what exactly you are planning to do that I could describe it to them? Are there some words or any physical present or photos of fans with some supportive inscription... what? -) I mean what exactly to ask? -)) You can PM me.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2015
Alexei Urmanov!
Agreed!!! Urmanov in my eyes worked wonders for Yulia Lipnitskaya, well certainly with her SP! While I don't know anything of Tsareva's background (like she doesn't even have a Wikipedia page) I'd imagine Urmanov being an Olympic gold medalist makes him a bit more qualified?
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
Definitely! :agree:
And now that Yulia has retired, he doesn't have a headline student. In fact, from looking at his fskate.ru profile, he doesn't have many students at the moment. And those that he does have are very young.
Given what he has done as a coach, and more importantly what he has achieved as a skater, I am amazed that Urmanov doesn't have more students than he has. Although, that may well have been a wise decision on his part, so that he can give the students that he has got more one-on-one attention.
And one-on-one attention is exactly what Anna needs to sort out her problems. And if she went to Urmanov, she would be getting it from somebody that has been right at the pinnacle of the sport himself not that long ago (well, compared to Mishin, Moskvina, Tarasova, etc.), and so understands what a top skater nowadays needs from their coach.
Looking at it from his viewpoint, Anna would be a perfect addition to Urmanov's stable. Somebody to represent him at the highest level, and somebody for his younger students to look up to, and learn from.
And if he does sort her out, it would prove once and for all what a good coah he is. And he would shoot up the pecking order of Russian coaches again (because having no top level students would have meant that he slipped).
Where can we sign her up?
CaroLiza_fan
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Unfortunately, Urmanov is in Sochi and I heard he is relocating to St Petersburg - can't vouch for this info though. I am not sure that separation with her family is what Anna needs at this juncture. IMHO the only realistic option for Anna in Moscow is Inna Goncharenko. She is strict but kind & caring and with Elena's departure she has no other top female student.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
Oh. I didn't think of looking at where coaches are based. Yeah, the logistics are not good. And, as you say, with the situation Anna is in, she needs her family around her.
Looking at Goncharenko's fskate.ru profile, she also does not have many students on her books at the moment. But, unlike Urmanov, most of the students she does have are high profile. So, Anna would have to be competing with them for attention.
For a skater who is used to having a coach whose focus has solely been on her, I'm not sure that this would be a good thing. As I said, Anna's situation means she needs one-on-one attention. And I am not sure if she would get the attention she needs with names like Voronov, Kovtun and Mikhailova in the same camp.
On the other hand, who knows, the guys might want to help Anna out, since she is not their opposition when it comes to competitions. I would ask if anybody knew if this happened when Elena was going through a tough patch, but there's no point asking because the guys were going through tough patches too then.
But, the way Voronov's form has turned around this season not only shows that Goncharenko can do it, but that she has done it recently. Which is a good sign that she could do the same for Anna.
CaroLiza_fan
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