- Joined
- Aug 16, 2017
Skating fans who happen to be the math teachers, scientists, finance analysts, or whoever are not bad at numbers: "We can give ISU folks free calculus lessons."
2018-2019 Season - New rules
- Thread starter enzofv
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
The 4A< base value was a typo, they revised it to be 9.38. (https://www.isu.org/news/80-inside-...cale-of-values-1st-july-2018?templateParam=15)
LMAO at the level of incompetence
So I was initially puzzled at how 7.50 turned into 9.38 but I think what they did was (assuming they calculated in Excel):
BV of 4A< = ROUNDUP(0.6 * BV of 4A, 2) = ROUNDUP(7.50, 2) = 7.50 instead of
BV of 4A< = ROUNDUP(0.75 * BV of 4A, 2) = ROUNDUP(9.375, 2) = 9.38
I think someone accidentally dragged and filled from the 4F< and e & 4Lz< and e cells down to the 4A< cell.
Regardless, a document needs to be more thoroughly checked before publishing, as this is just one of the several errors spotted so far.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
I figured it was probably some computer problems too.
Sad to say, that was the only amendment in the proposed SOV. Everything else still stands AFAIK, including the fact that +5 steps earn fewer points than the current +3 steps. I have to wonder, did they ... really not notice that fact?? Did they just pull up the old SOV and let Excel calculate GOE increments, but NOT realising the meaning of what they are doing, i.e undervaluing steps and spins? We might as well hire machines; what are the humans for???
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2017
I don't want to call it incompetence because I know exactly how hard proofreading a decontextualised table of figures is, but sheesh, if they need a professional proofreader, I'm right here and I don't even...well, actually I'd put my rates up for this lot, but they'd still be getting a good deal.
-So the Percentage GOE was applied correctly to the Singles and Pairs elements, however, in Ice Dance, they still have what is essentially a factored system.
**Also looks like the fixed the 4A< error.
But the BV for a ratified 4A is still unchanged!
We give the ISU a hard time, but they do seem to ask for it.
**Also looks like the fixed the 4A< error.
But the BV for a ratified 4A is still unchanged!
We give the ISU a hard time, but they do seem to ask for it.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2012
Looking at it all with no prof knowledge, it looks more like throwing dices: 1,3,5 for lowering, 2,4,6 for upping, combination for making things 'interesting' and spins/steps being not good enough for play (so lowering them from the get-go). Some of those changes are looking very confusing on paper I have to say and plain irrational if the aim is to fix issues with current scoring system and push the sport forward.
I am curious the most about GOE work after changes and new scale introduced, especially in Ice Dance. In general, I am preparing a small card to cover scoring box while watching competition - I do not want to spoil my confusion at the end...
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
I would like to know how getting +5 is going to work on steps and spins compared with +3 now. If +3 now equates to +5 in the future then all spins with BV higher than 3.0 will be better off e.g. flying camel or change foot combo level 4. Step Sequence 4 will be worse off, a big mistake IMO, but level 3 will be better. Good/great news on Choreo Seq, lots more of what fans really like to see (judging from their applause when they see things like really good spirals).
Jumps. It's all going to be about the 3Lz, especially in Ladies, a +5 GOE 3Lz will be worth more than a +1 GOE 3A (there's something not quite right there). Also if quad repetition is banned (please no), as in the men's everyone will be repeating 3A and 3Lz as their Zayak triples.
Overall though, with the exception of the level 4 Step Sequence, and to some the extent the 3Lz and 3A, I think these are an excellent set of proposals that people will really like when they get used to them. The big thing though will be proper implementation/marking of GOEs and PCS, there's the real rub. If they're not done properly, or say +5 GOE on spins is not the same as +3 GOE then they're not so good.
Jumps. It's all going to be about the 3Lz, especially in Ladies, a +5 GOE 3Lz will be worth more than a +1 GOE 3A (there's something not quite right there). Also if quad repetition is banned (please no), as in the men's everyone will be repeating 3A and 3Lz as their Zayak triples.
Overall though, with the exception of the level 4 Step Sequence, and to some the extent the 3Lz and 3A, I think these are an excellent set of proposals that people will really like when they get used to them. The big thing though will be proper implementation/marking of GOEs and PCS, there's the real rub. If they're not done properly, or say +5 GOE on spins is not the same as +3 GOE then they're not so good.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
This is so thinly veiled at certain skaters it's laughable...
Example 1: Nathan is clearly the beneficiary of these quad rules. To some extent, Vincent is also benefiting, but not as much since he tends to UR. Anyone with just a 4T or a 4S is missing out since those BV aren't being changed much
Example 2: Decreasing the value of 3Lz-3Lo is clearly an attempt to diminish the Russian ladies. They are the only ones to do this combo successfully today (Yuna Shiraiwa tried but it didn't work out). Everyone knows that -3Lo combos are much harder than -3T combos and so their BV should be raised in comparsion... but no, it's lowered...
:disapp:
Example 1: Nathan is clearly the beneficiary of these quad rules. To some extent, Vincent is also benefiting, but not as much since he tends to UR. Anyone with just a 4T or a 4S is missing out since those BV aren't being changed much
Example 2: Decreasing the value of 3Lz-3Lo is clearly an attempt to diminish the Russian ladies. They are the only ones to do this combo successfully today (Yuna Shiraiwa tried but it didn't work out). Everyone knows that -3Lo combos are much harder than -3T combos and so their BV should be raised in comparsion... but no, it's lowered...
:disapp:
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
First graders?
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2012
man, this makes me so nostalgic over Math, equations and all that jazz...
Think it's 12.50 as per the table. The original value of 4A< was a typo, and that the new one of 9.38 is correct and 75% of the non-UR'd Base Value, as per all the other jumps.
In this case BV for 4A should be 9.38 * 4/3 = 12.50 i.e. as in the table.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
Looking at and comparing the values in the table, jumps with < are 75% of BV, jumps with e are 75% of BV, and jumps with < and e are 60%.
Examples 1 and 2: 3T< BV = 4.2 *0.75 = 3.15, 4A< BV = 12.5 * 0.75 = 9.38 (round to two decimals)
Example 3: 4F< or e BV = 11*0.75 = 8.25
Example 4: 4Lz< and e = 11.5 * 0.6 = 6.90
This is so thinly veiled at certain skaters it's laughable...
Example 2: Decreasing the value of 3Lz-3Lo is clearly an attempt to diminish the Russian ladies. They are the only ones to do this combo successfully today (Yuna Shiraiwa tried but it didn't work out). Everyone knows that -3Lo combos are much harder than -3T combos and so their BV should be raised in comparsion... but no, it's lowered...
Overall, this probably helps the Russian ladies, or anyone else doing a -3Lo for that matter. You'll lose 0.1 marks compared with someone doing 2 -3Ts, but the -3Lo allows you to do two 3Fs and 3Lzs, and you've got all those lovely +GOE marks available e.g. +2.65 for 3F and 2.95 for 3Lz. If you can do fabulous versions of these jumps (or get high GOEs...) then you'll really be in business - currently maximum GOE for both is 2.1.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
No, an underrotation call only reduces BV by 25%, i.e the jump has 75% of its value. So the updated BV of 4A is 12.50, and a 4A< will get 9.38.
40% reduction is when you both underrotate and have wrong edge.
And they will get for the combo 0.3 pt less now. How to compare it with 1.5 pt less for 4Lo (what can be taken as a clear diminish of the Japanese men as only Yuzuru and Shoma jump it succesfully
).- Joined
- Aug 16, 2017
One minute for PR: I can provide basic calculus lessons for free.
ISU should take notes.
ISU should take notes.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
Why do you need calculus though?
