So you're saying that for some skaters, a 4A could be easier than 4Lz/4F. But since no one has landed it yet, we can't be sure??
But actually we do have data. There are 0 people who landed the 4A, sure. But there are many people who haven't landed the 4A, and that's as relevant of data to the difficulty of the 4A as the number of people who have landed it. And it's not like the ISU crunches the difficulty levels of each element from statistics -- if they did, this proposal would look very different. Not that that'd be a smart thing to do out of the box, I mean, by your argument, statistically the 5A should be worth the same as a 4A, because the same number of people have landed it!
BTW, there's a simple explanation why there are skaters who land the 4Lz before the 4S and 4T. Because it's worth more.
To quote a
very dear friend of mine, please don't straw man their argument. I mean, going by your "simple explanation" that skaters land a 4Z before a 4S/4T simply because it's worth more, then there should be skaters landing the 4A before their other quads because it's worth the
most. Nice strawmanning with you! :agree:
4everchan's point is that some skaters might find a much harder element easier than another element. The scale of difficulty is meant to be in general, and could vary depending on the skater. It is feasible that a skater lands a harder element before they land an easier element. D/R landed a throw 4S before they landed a throw 3A. As 4everchan mentioned, Artur Dimitriev was looking into a 4A. Jin/Hanyu/Kolyada have landed quad lutz in competition but not the quad flip. Asada's 3A is more comfortable for her than her 3S or 3Z. Trusova has landed a 4S & 4T in competition before the 3A (if she ever does it). Lots of skaters from Chan to Lambiel to Chen say they prefer quad toes to triple axels, even though the latter is easier. I'm sure there are other examples too.
So how many points should the 4A (a jump that nobody has ever landed or even attempted) be worth? Should we be slamming the ISU for not putting out base values for quintuple jumps yet? Or do we only care about base values when specific skaters announce their intentions to try certain elements? :sarcasm: If Uno says tomorrow he plans to train a 5T, does that mean the ISU needs to meet up and immediately come up with a sufficient BV - one that his fans are happy with and give the ISU their stamp of approval?
Like I said, the ISU could have made the 4A worth 40 points, and some people would still whine that it wasn't 41. And again, who cares?! The landing of the jump will be the important thing, not whether it got 15 points or 18 points or 25 points.
Are people scared that a skater they like won't be able to win a competition because they'll land a 4A but it won't be worth enough? Are they worried their favourite skater will be less motivated to go for it because of just 2.5 points less base value? And where's the outcry on the 4Z not being worth enough from the people decrying the revised 4A base value?
For the record (again) I also believe both the 4Z and 4A BVs are too low... but I'm not going to lose sleep or have a tantrum over it. It's no big deal right now, because nobody's even attempting the 4A. If a skater is landing it - heck even attempting it - and it's costing them competitions because it's not worth enough, then we can talk. Until then, it's more of a concern that the 4Z (a jump that skaters actually attempt, land, and some even rely on if they don't have the highest PCS out there) is not worth enough.
we will see when the ISU Congress is streamed live in less than two weeks' time (granted SOV has passed but the other proposals....)
