2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[vesperalvioletta]

While I sadly think that you may be right about Alena not making the cut if Fed decides to not send all three Eteri girls, I hope they do consider the fact that Anna at least internationally has not really performed amazingly compared to Alena, despite domestically there were other scores (although I tend to think that domestic scores are usually more bias and pretty generous).
Although quads gets you more points and can really save you to get higher scores even with a fall, at the end of the day just in general, I'd rather see a clean and beautifully executed Alena program with no quad than a messy Anna or even Sasha for that matter with two or three quads, even if the latter two get higher scores. I feel like this is the messy part about BV, since in one sense, I understand their high value due to difficulty performing them but on the other hand, I have mixed feelings about ending up rewarding much messier programs instead of cleanly executed programs (taking into account that choreo and all are on the same high level).

It such a conflicting situation, especially considering that Alena, Anna, and Sasha are all so deserving, but I agree that Alena's international success shouldn't be discounted against Anna's quads. I think their performances at the JGPF will be very telling.

Alena is much of the reason why I can't really get excited about the quad craze. I'm glad Alena isn't pushing herself to do quads, but its also difficult to watch her get left behind TES-wise because there's no way to reward beautiful, clean, emotive skating the same way that quads are rewarded.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Both Tallinn Trophy and Golden Spin.

Won’t that affect her eligibility?

 

[j00mla]

1. Both quad-girls will participate, as they are able to show super-high results. Anya proved her psychological stability this season. No one doubts Sasha.
2. Alёna will participate because she perfectly fits to new concept of the ISU - without "dangerous" elements she shows great skate, winning medals and hearts of the audience.
3. All three A will move to seniors next season, because at present Russia has only three really top ladies, and they are all struggling with their problems. And there is no guarantee that those seniors who don't live up to expectations now will do it in next season. And there is no guarantee that Konstantinova or Samodurova become top skaters. Does anyone doubt that AAA in their first senior season will "tear veterans into pieces" ?

 

[TGee]

This year is pretty interesting actually.
They would knock one of the eteri girls if, for example, Buyanova had decent juniors. For example, if Gubanova is clean, i see them sending her and not Kostornaia (or shcherbakova if Anna makes enough mistakes)
Tarakanova... Plushy is nobody as coach, not sure if they would bother knocking Eteri's girls for him.

Let's see how Tarakanova performs against the Eteri Juniors at the JGP Final before rushing to conclusions.

She has come a long way quickly and was far from plateauing.

If she podiums in Vancouver, it will be hard to ignore.

 

[tinybluemoon]

While I sadly think that you may be right about Alena not making the cut if Fed decides to not send all three Eteri girls, I hope they do consider the fact that Anna at least internationally has not really performed amazingly compared to Alena, despite domestically there were other scores (although I tend to think that domestic scores are usually more bias and pretty generous).
Although quads gets you more points and can really save you to get higher scores even with a fall, at the end of the day just in general, I'd rather see a clean and beautifully executed Alena program with no quad than a messy Anna or even Sasha for that matter with two or three quads, even if the latter two get higher scores. I feel like this is the messy part about BV, since in one sense, I understand their high value due to difficulty performing them but on the other hand, I have mixed feelings about ending up rewarding much messier programs instead of cleanly executed programs (taking into account that choreo and all are on the same high level).

But that's also where the issue with the quads will come in. If they fall and still win the ISU will be pretty much forced to make new rules to make it difficult to win for them because if they don't they will begin losing their casual viewers who still make up 70% of the viewers of televised events because research has shown time again ( I will come back with the links later as on my phone) that the casual viewer does not see the difficulty of the program they just see the falls and when those with falls outplace those who skate clean the viewership drops dramatically. No casual viwers, no broadcast, no broadcasting and the ISU loses one of their largest financial resources.

 

[melgirl25]

But that's also where the issue with the quads will come in. If they fall and still win the ISU will be pretty much forced to make new rules to make it difficult to win for them because if they don't they will begin losing their casual viewers who still make up 70% of the viewers of televised events because research has shown time again ( I will come back with the links later as on my phone) that the casual viewer does not see the difficulty of the program they just see the falls and when those with falls outplace those who skate clean the viewership drops dramatically. No casual viwers, no broadcast, no broadcasting and the ISU loses one of their largest financial resources.

That is really interesting and a point I never thought of. I was thinking the same, will the limit they amount of quads one can do. What did they do when triples entered the scene in ladies skating?

Also in terms of whether Alena is being prioritized by Team Eteri, it seems a bit dangerous to prioritize your skaters based on what you think they will be doing next year. What if one of the quad girls gets injured. It would be a shame to not have Alena then right? Alena is so talented. No one puts baby in the corner!

 

[Ziotic]

1. Both quad-girls will participate, as they are able to show super-high results. Anya proved her psychological stability this season. No one doubts Sasha.
2. Alёna will participate because she perfectly fits to new concept of the ISU - without "dangerous" elements she shows great skate, winning medals and hearts of the audience.
3. All three A will move to seniors next season, because at present Russia has only three really top ladies, and they are all struggling with their problems. And there is no guarantee that those seniors who don't live up to expectations now will do it in next season. And there is no guarantee that Konstantinova or Samodurova become top skaters. Does anyone doubt that AAA in their first senior season will "tear veterans into to pieces" ?

I doubt how dominant AAA will be.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Lol...no. Casual viewers and lots of knowledgeable fans eat up skaters like Sasha. Old fans with a more “discerning” taste are usually the only ones who complain. Have you seen the success and viewship of events like X-Games? Not saying we need X-games style events but I wouldn’t say figure skating is doing so great with casual fans in the same way X-Games and Dew Tour are. Bigger, faster, higher, riskier. That’s what the kids like these days!

Besides lots of skaters be oof’n up their triples too.

 

[tinybluemoon]

Don‘t you think Anastasia tarakanova has a Chance?

No, I don't think so. She would have to absolutely blow everyone away at jgpf AND jn to be considered now I think. The way they set up those last two jgp was very telling and tbh I don't think she was the horse they were putting money on in hers. But I am happy she made it because I personally like her better than Anna.

 

[tinybluemoon]

Lol...no. Casual viewers and lots of knowledgeable fans eat up skaters like Sasha. Old fans with a more “discerning” taste are usually the only ones who complain. Have you seen the success and viewship of events like X-Games? Not saying we need X-games style events but I wouldn’t say figure skating is doing so great with casual fans in the same way X-Games and Dew Tour are. Bigger, faster, higher, riskier. That’s what the kids like these days!

They will eat her up if she lands her jumps. They will spit her out if she falls. Let us all remember Nathan Chen and how he was ridiculed after his short at the Olympics and the drop in ratings following that. Which wasn't his fault, he wasn't the one tooting his own horn, but it shows how little forgiveness the casual viewer has.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

They will eat her up if she lands her jumps. They will spit her out if she falls. Let us all remember Nathan Chen and how he was ridiculed after his short at the Olympics and the drop in ratings following that. Which wasn't his fault, he wasn't the one tooting his own horn, but it shows how little forgiveness the casual viewer has.

Yes and Yuzuru faced the same thing as he was coming up. He was squeezing out more “artistic” skaters but he developed and the sport pushed forward with him in spite of those naysayers. I’m more inclined to support the athletes and their decisions of what to bring rather than some touch and go fan who prefers artistry over athletics or will tune out if they don’t get their way.

BTW Sasha is a great performer

 

[j00mla]

They will eat her up if she lands her jumps. They will spit her out if she falls.

but she lands

The ISU only retains rights to JGP broadcasts (and hardly makes any big money from this) . Everything else is sold to TV channels. A casual viewer believes what commentators and news say (my mom is example of such viewer, believes everything she hears on TV). Quads are good enough to create a show, their limitation comes from sports reasons (even intrigue), not commercial.

 

[hippomoomin]

I don't think we should worry too much about Alena against Anna and Alexandra because we still see a clean Satoko scores very well. If Alena is a concern, then Satoko wouldn't stand a chance in two seasons, because she has the worst jumps among all the top junior and senior ladies even after the improvement we see, and Alena does not lack in SS, interpretation, flow, musicality... And Alena has a very similar build as Satoko, which someone has already mentioned, is a great advantage because shorter ladies are affected far less by puberty that taller ladies. We can reasonably expect Alena will have a 3A in the future, and Satoko will not have any quads or 3A for sure, probably not even 3lz-3lo.

 

[colormyworld240]

Let's see how Tarakanova performs against the Eteri Juniors at the JGP Final before rushing to conclusions.

She has come a long way quickly and was far from plateauing.

If she podiums in Vancouver, it will be hard to ignore.

Have you kept up with these things in the past? It doesn't matter how they skate at JGPF (as in won't have positives in consideration for world's team). Russian nationals and TAT/fed support is all that matters. 2 years ago Gubanova was beautiful at JGPF and set the second highest FS score of the season (and ever) behind Alina and won the silver medal. They ignored that alright, and sent Stasya to worlds (who didn't even make JGPF). Last year, Tarakanova was on JGP podium, Gubanova skated clean at nationals, and they sent Stasya to worlds (who didn't make JGPF, had no combo in SP at nationals). It won't be surprising if the third JW spot goes to a Buyanova/TAT favourite, which is looking like Gubanova atm.

 

[figurefan0726]

Alena has one of the most smoothest jumps ever. Alexandra Trusova is the one with horrible jumps.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Now I’ve heard it all :giveup:

 

[Elucidus]

Have you kept up with these things in the past? It doesn't matter how they skate at JGPF (as in won't have positives in consideration for world's team). Russian nationals and TAT/fed support is all that matters. 2 years ago Gubanova was beautiful at JGPF and set the second highest FS score of the season (and ever) behind Alina and won the silver medal. They ignored that alright, and sent Stasya to worlds (who didn't even make JGPF). Last year, Tarakanova was on JGP podium, Gubanova skated clean at nationals, and they sent Stasya to worlds (who didn't make JGPF, had no combo in SP at nationals). It won't be surprising if the third JW spot goes to a Buyanova/TAT favourite, which is looking like Gubanova atm.

I agree with your point. However this time it will be almost impossible for judges to manipulate the scores in a way that would give Gubanova advantage over any of 3A skater without completely compromising themselves. The gap in abilities is too big. The only way I see it's possible is direct order from coaches council/federation to abandon their qualification principles and put Gubanova in the junior team ignoring her place at jrnats - and that they definitely wouldn't want to do. So I hope this time Eteri will prevail and we will see full russian podium at JW at last

 

[VenusHalley]

But that's also where the issue with the quads will come in. If they fall and still win the ISU will be pretty much forced to make new rules to make it difficult to win for them because if they don't they will begin losing their casual viewers who still make up 70% of the viewers of televised events because research has shown time again ( I will come back with the links later as on my phone) that the casual viewer does not see the difficulty of the program they just see the falls and when those with falls outplace those who skate clean the viewership drops dramatically. No casual viwers, no broadcast, no broadcasting and the ISU loses one of their largest financial resources.

As much as quads are impressive... i was very unimpressed by Sasha winning with fall and double footed pop. Yay, first combo was great.... but i fear they will just ram the program with quads hoping some of them stick... and others will follow the suit likely.

We seen enough splatfests in men events... that is why multiple falls are now penalized more, right?

 

[balabam]

Won’t that affect her eligibility?

No, Gubanova can do Challengers and then junior Worlds.
Last season Stasya Konstantinova did one JGP, last three Challengers (including Tallin Trophy and Golden Spin), then senior and junior nationals, and junior and senior Worlds... In fact, pretty busy season, now I understand why she bombed at Worlds

 

[plushyfan]

Bigger, faster, higher, riskier. That’s what the kids like these days!

That is the SPORT. So simply.