- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
You're correct about Maya. She's also born in early 2006 and is three days younger than Usacheva. Wondering when we'll know if Chistaykova was accepted or not :think:
2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
You're correct about Maya. She's also born in early 2006 and is three days younger than Usacheva. Wondering when we'll know if Chistaykova was accepted or not :think:
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
There are no long-term effects of training 3A on the body? Where are heated discussions on how Rika is hurting herself jumping 3 3As in 2 programs and each time falling at least once?
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
It’s probably because we’ve seen various ladies jump 3A into their adulthood, Mao Asada and Liza now being the most prominent example. Quads are new and we don’t know the effects yet and some of the falls Sasha and Anna have are truly scary to watch. I don‘t know, maybe we’re all overreacting but well... I find it justified to be worried, especially if it’s young children like them who don’t know the consequences.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
I don't agree at all. Kostornaya is Satoko level skater with better jumps, much ahead in terms of artistry and skating skills than both Rika and Kaori. Trusova is a better jumper than any of the Japanese podium winners somewhat behind on the second mark. But she is getting better. Anna's skating is still a bit juniorish but she has very good interpretation and she jumped a clean quad. To say "significantly superior" just underlines personal preferences rather than reality. We shall see how this "significantly superior" trio fares against the 3A next season.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2018
Oh by the way Merry Christmas to you all [emoji319][emoji319][emoji319][emoji319][emoji319]
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
It's probably because some people have the tendency to see the glass half full while talking about the Japanese skaters (for the lack of US, Canadian, Caro, etc. right now) and half empty while talking about the Russian skaters. Just imo.
Russian media on Medvedeva, Zagitova and team selection:
Valentin Piseev: "I think that Zhenya should come back to Russia and train here again. I don't entirely understand when they take a two times world champion and try changing her technique and jumps. This can be done with people who didn't reach the same heights as she did. This is not Medvedeva's case. Obviously, Zhenya didn't have that much time, but now we can only regret the lost opportunity. I really wish that everything works for her in the end".
"Zagitova is growing physically, and it is very hard for her to manage it. Also, there is psychological pressure. SHe understands that the olympic champion should skate clean and win everything. There also was serious pressure from media, both for Zagitova and Medvedeva"
https://iz.ru/827022/timur-ganeev-s...khi-iuniorki-vytesniaiut-zagitovu-i-medvedevu
Mishin "[about the team selection] I can use the following analogy. In a desert, a lion runs after an ostrich, and the ostrich, in the last moment, covers its head with the wings and waits to see what happen. I wouldnt want that, in the story with the young girls, we behaved like that"
"We have to skate well, not count medals"
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...ne-medali-schitat-a-katatsya-horosho-1493978/
TAT: "Zhenya blew up the short program entirely, but got herself together in free and showed the 3S and 3Lo, the elements that could have enabled her to win the Olympics. We see that Zhenya is moving forward. For example, Rika Kihira messed up her short at japanese nationals, and was 5th, but nobody threw stones at her. On the next day she showed a great skate in free"
https://tass.ru/sport/5947849
TAT: "The third spot is always defined by the coaches board. I didn't stay for that. Aleksey Mishin said that rusfed told him to prepare Tuktamysheva for Worlds. He had no arguments against that. They could have talked with Orser, could have also told him to prepare Medvedeva. She is on the rise now, and shooting her down on this rise is incorrect. There always should be hope. Zhenya is not first substitute even for the Universiade, this is not right towards that girl that made history and that was on the rise. They say the decision was unanimous. That is not entirely correct, one person abstained, and one didnt come"
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...sostavu-sbornoy-na-chempionat-evropy-1494313/
Trankov: "It is a pity, but its a sport. You have to show your best skating to get the right to represent the country on international championships. Zhenya didn't manage it this time".
"After this championship [Europeans], they will still decide on the worlds championship team. Maybe this will help Zhenya. She will get treatment, train and become better. Maybe, she will be sent to worlds. We don't know this".
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...opy-no-mozhet-eto-poydet-ey-na-polzu-1493958/
Irina Slutskaya: "Zhenya is trying to come back since the beginning of the season, and so far we didn't see this comeback at any competition. I dont see any changes in her skating, despite the change of the short program, and small changes in free. We still keep comparing her to that Medvedeva that competed last season, skated on top level. I didn't see a completely renewed Zhenya that everybody waited for"
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...vedevoy-2-0-my-poka-tak-i-ne-uvideli-1494095/
Slutskaya: "This is for her [Zagitova's] team to analyse. Maybe she overworked somewhere, maybe was just tired, maybe there were other reasons. We don't know exactly, and without knowing all this its impossible to say something certain. We can simply note that there were mistakes and she should work on fixing them. Sport is a thing where failures happen. That short program, how great Alina skated! And in free next day, everything turned around. If you rewatch her short and free, its hard to say it was on the same championship. As if on first day one person skated, and on the next, another."
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...duyuschiy-den-vyshel-drugoy-chelovek-1494087/
Katarina Gerboldt: " [Question: what conclusions Medvedeva should make based on her performances in Saransk] They will figure it out with her coach - if the training process should be corrected or not. She and Orser are just getting started and getting to know each other. When a new athlete arrives, the coach has to understand how to work with him, and the figure skater has to get used to the new methods and approach. They need to gel, and only then we can talk about results. So far, what Medvedeva shows are fruits of past work, and we will see the fruits of the training with Brian only next year"
"Anyway it will not be easy for her, like it wasnot easy for Medvedeva last year, when from leader she turned into cheaser. Lets see how Alina reacts to it. After all, she is tired after the olympic season, had many competitions, and there was serious psychological weight. When you are an Olympic champion, you always have to prove you are the best. Now, she will take a brek, rest, and come to Europeans with new strength"
https://teamrussia.pro/olimpijskij-...deva-stanet-luchshe-mnenie-katariny-gerboldt/
Bestemyanova: "I suppose Alina had a hard day, not her day at all, because she was in great shape. I watched practices, she came in good mood. But then something happened that day. Everything broke down. I suppose that this story is tricky because the girls who train with her landed quads. Maybe she heard about it and the psychology came in play".
"What happens to Zhenya, we see it from the beginning of the season. But she still skated in free program, made just one mistake. And, in fact, for some reason i thought that the team for european championships will be chosen differently. I thought that Zagitova, Medvedeva and Tuktamysheva will go. However well i like the great figure skaters Konstantinova and Samodurova, i would have voted for those 3".
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...py-zagitovu-medvedevu-i-tuktamyshevu-1494009/
Bestemyanova: "In this situation, should be counted in how she [Tuktamysheva] skated. Since september, she was the best of all. Here, they needed the third. I think that Aleksey Nikolaevich can exchange the girls, Samodurova and Tuktamysheva"
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...zhny-byli-vklyuchit-v-sostav-sbornoy-1494018/
Averbukh: "The situation with the spots for european championship is complicated, so they decided to base it on sport principle. Its a pity that Liza Tuktamysheva didn't participate for a good reason. Considering how she skated in the first half of the season, she deserves to go to european championships. Medvedeva also skated well. But why Samodurova and Konstantinova should give up their spots? They won them at the russian championships"
"I agree with Tarasova that a clear criteria before worlds is needed. So there are test skates two weeks before, and based on those the decisions will be made defining the composition of the team, including the debatable 3rd number. The door to worlds should be open n any case"
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...ropy-u-zhenschin-solomonovo-reshenie-1494312/
Leonova: "Obviously, it would be great if Liza was sent [to worlds/euros] because she deserved it. Zhenya is just starting her way. She skated badly in the short, and so-so in free. She still can do some minor competitions to gain confidence. Sofia Samodurova is great, she deserved this spot. Overall, you cannot judge anybody, who was sent fairly and who was not. Of course i think it would be better if they had chosen Liza. She was reborn this season, and performed very well. They have to give her a chance. There is great competition in our team."
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...-na-chempionat-evropy-ona-zasluzhila-1493957/
Samodurova: "I am happy for myself, but i also feel bad for Liza. I don't know yet how is her health. Two days ago, they needed to do some tests, but i dont know about results. Have to ask"
https://www.gazeta.ru/sport/2018/12/24/a_12105877.shtml
Valentin Piseev: "I think that Zhenya should come back to Russia and train here again. I don't entirely understand when they take a two times world champion and try changing her technique and jumps. This can be done with people who didn't reach the same heights as she did. This is not Medvedeva's case. Obviously, Zhenya didn't have that much time, but now we can only regret the lost opportunity. I really wish that everything works for her in the end".
"Zagitova is growing physically, and it is very hard for her to manage it. Also, there is psychological pressure. SHe understands that the olympic champion should skate clean and win everything. There also was serious pressure from media, both for Zagitova and Medvedeva"
https://iz.ru/827022/timur-ganeev-s...khi-iuniorki-vytesniaiut-zagitovu-i-medvedevu
Mishin "[about the team selection] I can use the following analogy. In a desert, a lion runs after an ostrich, and the ostrich, in the last moment, covers its head with the wings and waits to see what happen. I wouldnt want that, in the story with the young girls, we behaved like that"
"We have to skate well, not count medals"
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...ne-medali-schitat-a-katatsya-horosho-1493978/
TAT: "Zhenya blew up the short program entirely, but got herself together in free and showed the 3S and 3Lo, the elements that could have enabled her to win the Olympics. We see that Zhenya is moving forward. For example, Rika Kihira messed up her short at japanese nationals, and was 5th, but nobody threw stones at her. On the next day she showed a great skate in free"
https://tass.ru/sport/5947849
TAT: "The third spot is always defined by the coaches board. I didn't stay for that. Aleksey Mishin said that rusfed told him to prepare Tuktamysheva for Worlds. He had no arguments against that. They could have talked with Orser, could have also told him to prepare Medvedeva. She is on the rise now, and shooting her down on this rise is incorrect. There always should be hope. Zhenya is not first substitute even for the Universiade, this is not right towards that girl that made history and that was on the rise. They say the decision was unanimous. That is not entirely correct, one person abstained, and one didnt come"
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...sostavu-sbornoy-na-chempionat-evropy-1494313/
Trankov: "It is a pity, but its a sport. You have to show your best skating to get the right to represent the country on international championships. Zhenya didn't manage it this time".
"After this championship [Europeans], they will still decide on the worlds championship team. Maybe this will help Zhenya. She will get treatment, train and become better. Maybe, she will be sent to worlds. We don't know this".
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...opy-no-mozhet-eto-poydet-ey-na-polzu-1493958/
Irina Slutskaya: "Zhenya is trying to come back since the beginning of the season, and so far we didn't see this comeback at any competition. I dont see any changes in her skating, despite the change of the short program, and small changes in free. We still keep comparing her to that Medvedeva that competed last season, skated on top level. I didn't see a completely renewed Zhenya that everybody waited for"
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...vedevoy-2-0-my-poka-tak-i-ne-uvideli-1494095/
Slutskaya: "This is for her [Zagitova's] team to analyse. Maybe she overworked somewhere, maybe was just tired, maybe there were other reasons. We don't know exactly, and without knowing all this its impossible to say something certain. We can simply note that there were mistakes and she should work on fixing them. Sport is a thing where failures happen. That short program, how great Alina skated! And in free next day, everything turned around. If you rewatch her short and free, its hard to say it was on the same championship. As if on first day one person skated, and on the next, another."
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...duyuschiy-den-vyshel-drugoy-chelovek-1494087/
Katarina Gerboldt: " [Question: what conclusions Medvedeva should make based on her performances in Saransk] They will figure it out with her coach - if the training process should be corrected or not. She and Orser are just getting started and getting to know each other. When a new athlete arrives, the coach has to understand how to work with him, and the figure skater has to get used to the new methods and approach. They need to gel, and only then we can talk about results. So far, what Medvedeva shows are fruits of past work, and we will see the fruits of the training with Brian only next year"
"Anyway it will not be easy for her, like it wasnot easy for Medvedeva last year, when from leader she turned into cheaser. Lets see how Alina reacts to it. After all, she is tired after the olympic season, had many competitions, and there was serious psychological weight. When you are an Olympic champion, you always have to prove you are the best. Now, she will take a brek, rest, and come to Europeans with new strength"
https://teamrussia.pro/olimpijskij-...deva-stanet-luchshe-mnenie-katariny-gerboldt/
Bestemyanova: "I suppose Alina had a hard day, not her day at all, because she was in great shape. I watched practices, she came in good mood. But then something happened that day. Everything broke down. I suppose that this story is tricky because the girls who train with her landed quads. Maybe she heard about it and the psychology came in play".
"What happens to Zhenya, we see it from the beginning of the season. But she still skated in free program, made just one mistake. And, in fact, for some reason i thought that the team for european championships will be chosen differently. I thought that Zagitova, Medvedeva and Tuktamysheva will go. However well i like the great figure skaters Konstantinova and Samodurova, i would have voted for those 3".
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...py-zagitovu-medvedevu-i-tuktamyshevu-1494009/
Bestemyanova: "In this situation, should be counted in how she [Tuktamysheva] skated. Since september, she was the best of all. Here, they needed the third. I think that Aleksey Nikolaevich can exchange the girls, Samodurova and Tuktamysheva"
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...zhny-byli-vklyuchit-v-sostav-sbornoy-1494018/
Averbukh: "The situation with the spots for european championship is complicated, so they decided to base it on sport principle. Its a pity that Liza Tuktamysheva didn't participate for a good reason. Considering how she skated in the first half of the season, she deserves to go to european championships. Medvedeva also skated well. But why Samodurova and Konstantinova should give up their spots? They won them at the russian championships"
"I agree with Tarasova that a clear criteria before worlds is needed. So there are test skates two weeks before, and based on those the decisions will be made defining the composition of the team, including the debatable 3rd number. The door to worlds should be open n any case"
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...ropy-u-zhenschin-solomonovo-reshenie-1494312/
Leonova: "Obviously, it would be great if Liza was sent [to worlds/euros] because she deserved it. Zhenya is just starting her way. She skated badly in the short, and so-so in free. She still can do some minor competitions to gain confidence. Sofia Samodurova is great, she deserved this spot. Overall, you cannot judge anybody, who was sent fairly and who was not. Of course i think it would be better if they had chosen Liza. She was reborn this season, and performed very well. They have to give her a chance. There is great competition in our team."
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-...-na-chempionat-evropy-ona-zasluzhila-1493957/
Samodurova: "I am happy for myself, but i also feel bad for Liza. I don't know yet how is her health. Two days ago, they needed to do some tests, but i dont know about results. Have to ask"
https://www.gazeta.ru/sport/2018/12/24/a_12105877.shtml
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
I agree that as a whole, the junior trio looks superior. But well, this year they‘re still in juniors. Next year will be interesting. But for now and prospects this year, the Japanese podium looks stronger than the Russian simply because there‘s not even one senior on the Russian podium and the strongest one is Stanislava Konstantinova who is... well, lovely but not exactly the best skater there is out there. So I do understand that at the moment this might lead to some thinking that the Japanese are momentarily stronger. What they forget, though, is that despite Alina‘s failure here this isn‘t the norm for her and she was in strong form at GPF and during the rest of the season. Liza, who‘s GPF medalist and beat 2/3 of that Japanese podium before was also missed at Nationals. So, I do think they are about equal this year and the battle at worlds will be fierce. Next year will be a wholly different situation of course.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2014
I don’t think the age limit should be raised. What i think needs to happen is
1. Separate TES from PCS more. They are not the same.
2. Raise the BV for footwork and spins. These elements are also really hard and should be rewarded more. They don’t need to be the same as jumps, but I would like them to be worth more.
These 2 changes alone would serve to level the playing field without punishing young jumping phenoms.
1. Separate TES from PCS more. They are not the same.
2. Raise the BV for footwork and spins. These elements are also really hard and should be rewarded more. They don’t need to be the same as jumps, but I would like them to be worth more.
These 2 changes alone would serve to level the playing field without punishing young jumping phenoms.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
Another generalization just to critisize Trusova/Scherbakova. Have you seen how Daniel Samohin falls, this one for example?
https://youtu.be/xBp3Y8d8GEk?t=68
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
Oh, dear, TAT... Yes, Rika was 5th but Zhenya was 14th there is a significant difference between that. Zhenya is just not ready for Worlds. Euros... maybe but if you want to fight for her, fight for her to go to the Universiade. That‘s what she needs. One more competition where the stakes and the pressure aren‘ as high. Not the additional stress of having to skate well enough to keep three spots for Worlds. She just is not ready for that.
- - - Updated - - -
Merry Christmas!!
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2017
If more than 1 skater skate badly in European i think its possible RusFed will ditch Stasya and put Medvedeva in Universiade to see if she can go to Worlds to replace other girls aside from Liza too
Because she is a junior beating seniors =)
Its not at all about quads, people are just crying about "girls" beating "mature women", whatever it means.
It matterns not that Kostornaia doesnt jump quads and is most artistic and mature than 95% of top seniors, the narrative is "teenage jumping beams"
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
I'm just not interested in an Olympic sport where the athletes - supposed masters of their disciplines - peak at 14/15 and it's all downhill from there. That's a sport for children.
We still have to wait and see this if this is going to be a recurring pattern in the sport. We don't yet have a revolving door of 15/16 year olds who win everything at the senior level and then fall into decline...but we could see it happen this quad, with Alina, Rika, and then Kost/Shcher/Trusova. I think if those last three girls are all surpassed by younger girls by the 2022 Olympics, it will be a very bad sign for the sport. They're all incredible prodigies in different ways, and if all three are "replaced" with a new wave of first-year seniors, then changes will be made.
We still have to wait and see this if this is going to be a recurring pattern in the sport. We don't yet have a revolving door of 15/16 year olds who win everything at the senior level and then fall into decline...but we could see it happen this quad, with Alina, Rika, and then Kost/Shcher/Trusova. I think if those last three girls are all surpassed by younger girls by the 2022 Olympics, it will be a very bad sign for the sport. They're all incredible prodigies in different ways, and if all three are "replaced" with a new wave of first-year seniors, then changes will be made.
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2018
What's the competition two weeks before Worlds that he's mentioning? I also saw other people mention it.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2018
I don't think that's what it's in reference to.
I think even if we see a revolving door, this should be evaluated carefully.
For example, it is fair for 3A to replace Zhenya and Alina, as they are stronger all around. Not because of puberty, but because, for example, Sasha, even in seniors, will be a better jumper than both Zhenya and Alina together, even if she loses the quads. Because right now, 3A are better than Zhenya and Alina were at their age.
So they would win and replace not because they have teenage bodies, but because they are better, simply put.
If we come to a point when we have a situation where we have lets say Zhenya and Alina being replaced by same Zhenya and Alina, but 2-3 years younger, then sure, raising age could be a thing.
If new waves of skaters are simply better and stronger, there is no excuse to push them back simply because new talents keep coming.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2017
3A is still a triple. The discussion is abt quads. Mao Asada last did a 3A at age 26. The history is already known. Its not like its the 1st time ever a female skater has done a 3A.
For quads, even for the men, its only after 2014 that the quad craze went full blown. 3, then 4 quads in the LP. 2 in the SP.
Hence, discussions was about "We will see the effects it has on the bodies of these young men". The skaters talked abt it, the coaches talked abt it, etc. Now, few years later, we see the effects.
Yuzuru's right ankle is an example of consequences of multiple quads.
The ladies, the Russian juniors are the 1st. The effects, we will know. Women's discipline in general : doing triples, 3-3 combos already causing them back injuries, foot injuries, knee injuries.
As i understand it, he wants some sort of test skates.
I dont think this would happen, getting everybody for test skates, specially Zhenya (who will have to travel from Canada), right before Worlds, may not be a good idea, since it is expensive and will disrupt the training process.
Realistically, based on what Mishin said (rusfed told him to prepare Tuktamysheva for Worlds, link somewhere up the thread), rusfed wants to see Tuktamysheva at universiade, and then decide between her and Samodurova for Worlds based on Liza's readiness.
TAT said that rusfed did not ask Orser to prepare Zhenya for Worlds (I just posted a huge bunch of links, and TAT likely knows since she behaved as a coach to Zhenya at rusnats), which means she is not seriously considered for one of the spots, and is set to be the 2nd sub.
Overall, while EUros and Worlds are prestigious and Zhenya's fans are crying, i think rusfed is right in not sending her to any of those. She is obviously not ready this season, and imho she should take her time to work and prepare for the next seasn, rather than keep struggling in competitions. Having extra time to somehow stabilize her jumps, and to work on programs (so she doesn't need to change the content after every competition) will be a big deal for her.
Next season is very important, since many russian girls will be able to turn senior, and the competition will be much harder. And i dont mean just 3A. Tarusina, Gubanova, Guliakova, Tarakanova and so on can also turn seniors, and they are not much behind Zhenya as she was this season. If she keeps struggling, she will not be the 4th senior, but the 10th senior, so she got to be ready.
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