2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Sam-Skwantch]

Not quite I think. Sasha’s basic SS is typical or Eteri Girls v3.0 - better than Yulia, Zhenya, Alina certainly. Sasha has better power and can generate and change speed better than Alyona but the latter has better glide and edge. They both have strengths in different aspects of SS. Alyona looks better to me primarily because of her great posture that conveys the semblance of balance while Sasha can look rather frenetic. It’s that superior posture that gives Alyona that floaty like quality. I think Alyona is the more natural skater that needs to learn she can use her lovely edge control to accelerate more while Sasha needs to develop better body awareness to better showcase her power. Overall, Scherbakova is the one who charms audience the most as she has the most natural dance and musical feel with decent basics and it certainly helps that she is so so lovely.

It would be interesting to see (as taylor1 suggests) these skaters performing to each other’s music though. I’d like to see Alena add some character that brings a program to life a bit more and I’d love to see Sasha do something a bit more ethereal. I think part of Sasha’s struggle in the FS is that she exudes so much energy and power. Not just the jumps either. She could really benefit from “floating” about like Alena and doing far less dramatics. Not sugggesting it’s easy to look graceful but it has its advantages. The poor girl expends so much energy.

I really respect and agree with your comments though. Well said

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I agree that being musical doesn’t guarantee higher scores, but a skater whose “skating and body movements are acknowledging the music in some way” is musical.

IMO whether or not an innately musical person gets higher PCS than someone else depends at least in part on how musical the judges themselves are. To the extent they’re not - and to Casual’s point - they’re unlikely to recognize a skater who’s exceptionally musical, so the skater probably won’t benefit. The criteria are basically elements matched to the music and picking up on other nuances in the music, which is pretty vague.

With respect to a skater who has long pauses or interruptions in her program - I can’t imagine any good program doing that, but I suppose it warrants lower PCS. Although if you think about it, last year a lot of guys doing lots of quads spent like the first half of their programs setting up for one quad after another, and it didn’t seem to affect their PCS much.

It didn't that much because with a (30 seconds) longer program they had more space for interpretaton of the music. But you can see the difference between last year and this year long programs (and scores). Most of the time interpretation of the music is one of the lowest mark now comparing to their other component marks/SS in first place. Ladies in general have higher interpretation scores comparing to their skating skills scores, as opposite of them!

 

[Icey]

Posters keep throwing out the phrase "bad technique". Could some knowledgeable person take one of Med's jumps with which she used "bad technique" and explain why it is bad. I wondered if Med reverted to her old technique in the FS.

 

[Metis]

Posters keep throwing out the phrase "bad technique". Could some knowledgeable person take one of Med's jumps with which she used "bad techniques" and explain why it is bad. I wondered if Med reverted to her old technique in the FS.

Here you go.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Here you go.

I’m no good with the words so I prefer to just make the videos

Liza 3f and 3z Jumpamatron

Just watch Liza

 

[Wheelz]

Tuktamysheva. You're welcome.

Does Zhenya count?

 

[DanseMacabre]

Posters keep throwing out the phrase "bad technique". Could some knowledgeable person take one of Med's jumps with which she used "bad techniques" and explain why it is bad. I wondered if Med reverted to her old technique in the FS.

I hesitate to get involved in this thread because it's probably the most volatile one on Golden Skate, but here we go. In general, when a skater is jumping, ideally most of the power and momentum of the jump should generate from the lower body. The legs are what vault you into the air. For a good example of this, see Tuktamysheva's jumps (especially that gorgeous triple Lutz).

Exhibit A: https://youtu.be/qchhV_ael2w?t=64

Midori Ito was another skater who generated power from her legs in the jumps. Exhibit B: https://youtu.be/fDM7cXztujc?t=47

The toe loop in that combo is particularly nice because her shoulders and hips are so square and while her arms assist, she isn't using them to generate rotational force.

Some skaters like Evgenia have a tendency to rely on the upper body to generate the rotational force of a jump. She uses her arms to create the torque needed to get the get the jump all the way around (you can see this when she twists her upper body and utilizes her arms).

Exhibit C: https://youtu.be/ufLAipHgUFQ?t=60

*I'm not trying to be shady by picking a jump she fell on. I picked this one simply because the camera angle gives you a good look at what I mean re: her upper body.

Figure skating is a dangerous sport and it's hard on the body. That's just facts. Injuries can and will happen no matter what. I don't know Medvedeva's medical history so I won't say that this particular nuance of her technique caused her back troubles, but I will say that technique like Liza's tends to be more sustainable over time. I'm a fan of both skaters so I'm not trying to say one is better than the other or anything like that. I'm just selecting them to highlight differences in technique.

 

[Globetrotter]

I agree with much of what you say, and this is the sort of critique of Sasha I appreciate, because, although I do not agree in all respects, it is nuanced and acknowledges Sasha's strengths. So much of the criticism one sees is of the nonsensical "Sasha has jumps and little else" variety. Where I differ is that I do see superb "body control" in Sasha, just of a different variety to Alёna's, with her (I agree) great strengths in posture and "floatiness". I call it the waterskimmer. Anna has it too and is building on it, I think. Funny enough, I detect floatiness in Sasha too, unlikely though it sounds. Perhaps this quality is not exploited enough in her fast-paced programmes, but I believe the potential is there in the right sort of programme. When I see those glimpses in Sasha, I want more but I am happy if she gives us quads for the time being. It is there nicely also in the other Alёna K, and a thing I like about Stanislava's SS.

It would be interesting to see (as taylor1 suggests) these skaters performing to each other’s music though. I’d like to see Alena add some character that brings a program to life a bit more and I’d love to see Sasha do something a bit more ethereal. I think part of Sasha’s struggle in the FS is that she exudes so much energy and power. Not just the jumps either. She could really benefit from “floating” about like Alena and doing far less dramatics. Not sugggesting it’s easy to look graceful but it has its advantages. The poor girl expends so much energy.

I really respect and agree with your comments though. Well said

We all have to see multiple sides and perspectives. During the 6.0 days, energetic and powerful skaters like Midori Ito and Irina Slutskaya were often held down by their presentation scores as they did not conform to the "loveliness" quality that was preferred then. Irina even went into a balletic style for a while which was not in line with her energetic "big" personality. It was the contrast in styles and different personalities which Midori vs Kristi Yamaguchi and Irina vs Michelle Kwan which brought so much excitement. Sasha reminds me a little of that - she is powerful and energetic and she could better showcase her strengths in a more energetic programme. I may prefer Alyona's floaty qualities and Shcherbakova's musical congruence but Sasha's speed and power is also something to be admired. I believe the judges recognise the other two girls deservedly stronger PCS and gave them higher scores. I only wish that they will reflect the differences more clearly, that Sasha gets mid high SS and higher TR but lower PE and IN and CO as her performance aspects were indeed weaker than her teammates. Likewise, I do wish judges will score Liza Tuks higher in the PE/IN components and lower in SS and TR since it was pretty obvious where her weaker components were. Overall, I think that every skater brings different excitement to the ice and that is what makes us fans tick.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

We all have to see multiple sides and perspectives. During the 6.0 days, energetic and powerful skaters like Midori Ito and Irina Slutskaya were often held down by their presentation scores as they did not conform to the "loveliness" quality that was preferred then. Irina even went into a balletic style for a while which was not in line with her energetic "big" personality. It was the contrast in styles and different personalities which Midori vs Kristi Yamaguchi and Irina vs Michelle Kwan which brought so much excitement. Sasha reminds me a little of that - she is powerful and energetic and she could better showcase her strengths in a more energetic programme. I may prefer Alyona's floaty qualities and Shcherbakova's musical congruence but Sasha's speed and power is also something to be admired. I believe the judges recognise the other two girls deservedly stronger PCS and gave them higher scores. I only wish that they will reflect the differences more clearly, that Sasha gets mid high SS and higher TR but lower PE and IN and CO as her performance aspects were indeed weaker than her teammates. Likewise, I do wish judges will score Liza Tuks higher in the PE/IN components and lower in SS and TR since it was pretty obvious where her weaker components were. Overall, I think that every skater brings different excitement to the ice and that is what makes us fans tick.

Maybe if the judges did a better job of sorting this stuff out it wouldn’t leave so many fans trying to do it for them online

 

[MissBeeFarm]

Exactly. It will be a sad day if ladies FS becomes like ladies Gymnastics - a sport only for young ones.

Actually, gymnastics is very much moving away from tiny 16 y.o. winning everything, and has been for quite some time. E.g. if you check out the results from this year's Worlds, 5 out of 6 medal podiums included at least two gymnasts (out of the three medalists) older than 20.

From an outside perspective of a gymnastics fan, ladies figure skating already is seen as a sport won primarily by girls while the older ones might be more entertaining, but can't keep up with the young ones. It's like gymnastics between the 70s and early 2000s, while on the other hand gymnastics is constantly moving away from that way of competition. So, in a way what you fear has already happened, or at least is perceived that way.

 

[Globetrotter]

Maybe if the judges did a better job of sorting this stuff out it wouldn’t leave so many fans trying to do it for them online

 

[mat]

Very good article about Shcherbakova and others.
https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/gatekeeper_16/2292124.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

 

[starlight97]

Does Zhenya count?

As I said, I hope she can lead the way in that sense.
While Alina seems very introverted and fraile psychologically, like a deer in the headlights, Evgenia has always loved showmanship, media attention etc
She's very extroverted and has a huge selfconfidence judging from the interviews, clips and documentaries we've seen..
As Brian said:
"After messing up she said: I'm supposed to be super human!"
Or when she came of the ice after doing a 3-3-3 to show off at nationals I think it was(?) she said to Eteri "You didn't expect that huh? I couldn't help myself"

So I think with that kind of personality she may be able to withstand the struggles she is experiencing now because holding out mentally is what will give her the chance to overcome the physical aspect.

 

[zenskate]

Alina seems very introverted and fraile psychologically

I respectfully diagree.

Alina cries at K&C, but she has never let a bad performance ruin her mental state for competition. That is psychological strength to me. Besides, Alina kept it together at the Olympics and got the biggest medal, and anything she does now is just adding to her glory.

I think all top athletes are strong mentally. Even the ones who fall a lot. It takes strength just to keep going.

 

[theharleyquinn]

I respectfully diagree.

Alina cries at K&C, but she has never let a bad performance ruin her mental state for competition. That is psychological strength to me. Besides, Alina kept it together at the Olympics and got the biggest medal, and anything she does now is just adding to her glory.

I think all top athletes are strong mentally. Even the ones who fall a lot. It takes strength just to keep going.

Agreed. If you've ever read her interviews/quotes, you'd know she's very mature and has a really thoughtful perspective about being an athlete.

 

[Lechat]

Alina is a shy and sensitive person. She even try to hide her joy after winning the olympic because she knows Zhenia was dejected.

 

[Vandevska]

https://youtu.be/wSIQCqKfhOg?t=159

Woooow you can really see how much bigger her jumps are this year :eeking:

 

[Fluture]

https://youtu.be/wSIQCqKfhOg?t=159

Is that a competition and if so, why is she in her training clothes and looks like she barely slept that night? Also, wasn‘t the solo jump 3Lz last year? I‘m a bit confused. I don‘t know if it‘s her being tired when that video was taken but her jumps look a lot higher and bigger now.

 

[Vandevska]

Is that a competition and if so, why is she in her training clothes and looks like she barely slept that night? Also, wasn‘t the solo jump 3Lz last year? I‘m a bit confused. I don‘t know if it‘s her being tired when that video was taken but her jumps look a lot higher and bigger now.

Someone above said that another skater withdrew and they needed a 6th skater, and since the competition was at Sambo they quickly just got Alena to sub and she didn't have time to change. (probably didn't have her dress there either)

 

[dante]

She was asked to participate there out of competition so that other kids could meet some formal qualification requirements or something like that.