2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[serephy]

Sasha came from provincial Ryazan to Sambo-70 later and was immediately sent to Eteri group.

This isn't quite correct. Sasha moved to Moscow when she was 9/10 and joined Volkov's group at Sambo-70. He was the one who taught her all her triples - with pretty good tech - her 3Lz under Volkov was really very nice and her 2A was huge (I can't find the source right now but I remember reading that she first started working on the the 3A under him). Sasha then moved to join Eteri after the 2015/16 season, encouraged by the possibility of training with Medvedeva. At this point she had been living in Moscow/training with Volkov for two years already.

Eteri group seems to be the elitists group of Sambo-70 where all coaches of Tchaikovskaya are sending their most promising students when they reach certain level. Sambo-70 looks to have a very tight fs department and a very organized "syndicate"! Look, any coach will make a lot of stink and noise if Eteri poached their precious students like Shcherbakova and Kostornaya. And yet we heard no drama at all. This is so unRussian!

Bulchyeva and Zghun might have been reconciled to this process (Bulycheva is mainly a novice/feeder coach and I'm not sure Zghun coaches full time to the extent necessary for training an elite level skater anymore.) but Volkov and Tsareva definitely weren't!

(It's also worth mentioning that Anna S. didn't have triples when she moved to Eteri - and honestly triples didn't look like a very likely development at that point. Kostornaya was also coming back from injuries and was very inconsistent - her best score that season was 166 at a Russian Cup stage).

The reason Volkov left Sambo-70 and took the risk of moving to Plushenko's rink is because he felt his group was being treated like a feeder school for Eteri despite the fact that he is NOT just a novice coach. It's easy to say well, Volkov isn't as successful/good a coach as Eteri, he has no top students but that is at least in part due to the fact that both his top students (Sasha Trusova and Egor Rukhin) were asked/encouraged to move to Eteri in 2016.

When his remaining high level student (Artem Kovelev) had a good season in 2016/17 - he was also asked to change groups but refused because of a family connection with Volkov. At this point things seem to have settled down until the end of the 2017/18 season when again certain students were apparently informed they would have more success in the Eteri group (not sure which students this was said to - some rumours say Kovalev again - others suggest it was some of his novice students being head hunted for the baby Eteri group that was going to be formed later that year).

It is pretty clear an offer was made however, because it was at this point that Volkov apparently decided that the only way to prevent his students being pushed to move to the Eteri group (I'm not blaming Eteri herself here - like you say it could have been the general administration/syndicate at Sambo-70) was to leave the club entirely and find a new rink where he could coach his students without worrying that they would be taken off him as soon as they showed signs of success/potential.

Similarly the messy situation with Tsareva and Panenkova this season allegedly began when her two top 2006 babies (i.e. her 2022 Olympic hopefuls) Dasha Usacheva and Maya Khromyk moved across to Eteri. She was apparently very, very unhappy and, when she began to make noise about leaving Sambo-70 as well, was compensated by being given Dasha Panenkova (and her funding/GP assignments).

Obviously these tensions happen and I'm not suggesting Eteri is the only coach this happens with, however she is also not the only coach this doesn't happen with.

 

[[email protected]]

Why would TAT not fight for Medvedeva's spot at the meeting?

One thing is to chat with the press - the other one is to make a proposition during an official board meeting. I think TAT is losing it - she is too old but she is not stupid to the extent of going to the meeting and proposing the outcome which will show everyone how partial she is.

Saying that if it were a slightest chance that this proposition would be accepted she would go. But 99% it would not so that she would look not only partial but foolish as well.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

I would like to add to this ^^ a bit more..

Look, not every girl is born to look and to skate like princessy cliché (no offense to "real" princesses thou ). If ISU will support diversity and inclusivity in our sport it would be better for FS in general and would help to ranking and viewership to go up worldwide. And would attract more sponsors. Every girl and boy on the ice rinks out where will be looking up to the skaters on Worlds, GP and Euros and will be picking the favorite by the personal taste AND by similarity to herself/himself or by something he/she can relate to. People are very different and diverse around the globe. We all are different, and we all want to see the same diversity among top skaters too. Some can be more balletic, some can be less refined, but amazing jumpers and has decent sliding skills. Pick your poison.

I don't think people are saying that Trusova doesn't have a lot of musicality because she isn't performing ballet-style programs. Not at all, but she, IMO, is not that great of a performer yet(as I said IMO) and that's okay because she's young and stuff like this comes with age, Alena K is an exception, not the rule what a lot of people seem to forget. And about musicality and performance, for Example Elena R 'Porgy and Bess was in no means a ballet-style or lyrical program, but she can perform it well because she is musical and a great performer. Another example would be Wakaba H 'Skyfall' another non ballet-style program where you can see that Wakaba is still a musical skater.

My point is that it's okay to not be a super refined skater at the young age of 14, and it's okay to admit that. Ofc Sasha improved a lot since last year but she is not quite there yet and that's okay because she has time to grow

 

[LenaRadiFan]

And regarding the gp spots for next season, why don't we just wait and see [emoji6] rusfed works in mysterious ways.(also regarding the comeback spots, I wouldn't see why Anna P or Elena R wouldn't get one considering their achievements in the past, but that's just my opinion)

 

[skatenewbie]

Thank you! This clear things up a bit. Does Leonova count at #25 on the SB list if we remove Kanysheva at #21 who is still junior next year??

Nope, only top 24, so even if there is only 23 senior eligible in top 24, #25 does not get guarantee for 1 GP spot

In a dream world maybe

If RusFed did not intervene, high profile skaters like Alina, Zhenya, Liza or Alena, Sasha and Anna (Anna is russian senior champion, but her SB is not THAT high) might get only 1 GP and no chance of a second. If they don't bomb, I have a feeling Konstantinova and Samodurova will also be pushed to get 2 GPs.

--> 8x2 = 16/18 spots taken.

Someone like Lena Radionova will never be allowed to enforce the 'comeback rule' to get GP spots without official approval... and others like Tarusina, Tarakanova will be recommended to stay in juniors. Before her big win, many thought the same would happen to Anna S.

this is really hard to predict aside from 3 girls who sent to worlds placing in top 12 and got 2 spot guaranteed. If Liza and Alina go to Worlds probably they will place in top 12. The problem lies in 3rd girl, if Stasya she might bomb, but who knows? If Samodurova she probably will place in top 12, and if Medvedeva she could bomb too. Let's say 3 girls placing in top 12 so 6 spot is taken with Stasya being the 3rd girl, next im guessing Medvedeva and Smodurova getting 2 spot so total 10/18 spot is taken. there is 3A, Gubanova, Shakanovich, Tarusina and Sotskova. i think Sotskova will only get 1 based on her WS so 11/18. What i was thinking, Tarusina might get pushed to stay in juniors because she only do JGP for 1 season and didnt even make JGPF. we have 7 spot for 5 skaters. i think this will be affected by Scherbakova performance in JWC and nats, if she fail there, Alena and Sasha will got 2 spot, while she got 1 along with Gubanova and Shakanovich. I dont think they will push Gubanova in juniors because she didnt even do JGP, i know she has boot issues there but she has Buyanov influence now. But if Radionova try to make comeback using the comeback rule then i might see Gubanova staying in junior and Radionova getting that 1 spot left.

there is also scenario where the 3rd girl from worlds didnt place in top 12. Also Stasya/Gubanova might kicked out of top 20, Stasya is #22 while Gubanova is #20. Eunsoo has 4CC and Worlds to up her SB, Yelim have JWC, Yuna S have JWC, Yuhana Yokoi have JWC, Alena Kanysheva might have JWC. its unlikely though but it might happen.

 

[Jontor]

Very complicated indeed And what about Pogorilaya? She might complicate matters even more. A lot will be determined at the world championship. It might come to that Medvedeva won't get two spots.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

And regarding the gp spots for next season, why don't we just wait and see [emoji6] rusfed works in mysterious ways.(also regarding the comeback spots, I wouldn't see why Anna P or Elena R wouldn't get one considering their achievements in the past, but that's just my opinion)

Well, I could see it happening that there's just no room for them. Because this season alone, there are already too many ladies who by the rules deserve spots. And they - not by their own fault because they were injured - didn't skate at all this season. I can't see RusFed submitting any names that didn't make nationals - so I think them and Sakhanovich are out already. I think they'll stick to the "top" ones and only submit the names they want to see - 9 of them. So, my personal theory is that they will submit:

1. Zagitova. Olympic champion and atop the SB list. Potential world champion this year.
2. Tuktamysheva (if she continues). Comeback season is incredible, has 3A.
3. Trusova. Quads, quads, quads, and RusNats silver medalist.
4. Shcherbakova. Quads, senior champion this year, incredible artistry.
5. Kostornaya. Incredible artistry, solidly consistent, winning over her teammates as well, JGPF champion, 2x RusNats bronze medalist.
6. Medvedeva. They will want to give her a chance, and she still has a huge reputation.
7. Samodurova. She's on an upward trajectory and is likely to get a Euros medal this year.
8. Konstantinova. She is loved by RusFed and was the top senior at RusNats.
9. Tarusina. Her spot is the only one that I'm really speculating on - I think they will choose to go with her over Gubanova because she finished above her at nationals, is more consistent, has more results this season, and has a higher SB. But they could go with Gubanova because of Buyanova.

If Tuktamysheva decides she is done, I would think Gubanova would be submitted instead.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

Very complicated indeed And what about Pogorilaya? She might complicate matters even more. A lot will be determined at the world championship. It might come to that Medvedeva won't get two spots.

In the isu rules about gp spots comeback spots are the second priority about deciding so it would be more likely than some people think, If Pogo/Radi do that next season, that they will each get one spot over for example Medvedeva getting 2 spots

 

[skatenewbie]

Well, I could see it happening that there's just no room for them. Because this season alone, there are already too many ladies who by the rules deserve spots. And they - not by their own fault because they were injured - didn't skate at all this season. I can't see RusFed submitting any names that didn't make nationals - so I think them and Sakhanovich are out already. I think they'll stick to the "top" ones and only submit the names they want to see - 9 of them. So, my personal theory is that they will submit:

1. Zagitova. Olympic champion and atop the SB list. Potential world champion this year.
2. Tuktamysheva (if she continues). Comeback season is incredible, has 3A.
3. Trusova. Quads, quads, quads, and RusNats silver medalist.
4. Shcherbakova. Quads, senior champion this year, incredible artistry.
5. Kostornaya. Incredible artistry, solidly consistent, winning over her teammates as well, JGPF champion, 2x RusNats bronze medalist.
6. Medvedeva. They will want to give her a chance, and she still has a huge reputation.
7. Samodurova. She's on an upward trajectory and is likely to get a Euros medal this year.
8. Konstantinova. She is loved by RusFed and was the top senior at RusNats.
9. Tarusina. Her spot is the only one that I'm really speculating on - I think they will choose to go with her over Gubanova because she finished above her at nationals, is more consistent, has more results this season, and has a higher SB. But they could go with Gubanova because of Buyanova.

If Tuktamysheva decides she is done, I would think Gubanova would be submitted instead.

You forgot Shakanovich guaranteed 1 spot, she is 15th in SB list with 202+ higher than 3 other ladies, no way she wont be submitted, she is guaranteed by the rule.... and Sotskova guaranteed 1 too given her WS probably stay in top 24 after this season end.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

In the isu rules about gp spots comeback spots are the second priority about deciding so it would be more likely than some people think, If Pogo/Radi do that next season, that they will each get one spot over for example Medvedeva getting 2 spots

And what if, this is a worst case scenario, gp will prefer the older russian ladies to get spots before the 3a? I mean for NHK this season they invited Leonova instead of someone younger like Sima or Stasya G

 

[malya]

Nope, only top 24, so even if there is only 23 senior eligible in top 24, #25 does not get guarantee for 1 GP spot

this is really hard to predict aside from 3 girls who sent to worlds placing in top 12 and got 2 spot guaranteed. If Liza and Alina go to Worlds probably they will place in top 12. The problem lies in 3rd girl, if Stasya she might bomb, but who knows? If Samodurova she probably will place in top 12, and if Medvedeva she could bomb too. Let's say 3 girls placing in top 12 so 6 spot is taken with Stasya being the 3rd girl, next im guessing Medvedeva and Smodurova getting 2 spot so total 10/18 spot is taken. there is 3A, Gubanova, Shakanovich, Tarusina and Sotskova. i think Sotskova will only get 1 based on her WS so 11/18. What i was thinking, Tarusina might get pushed to stay in juniors because she only do JGP for 1 season and didnt even make JGPF. we have 7 spot for 5 skaters. i think this will be affected by Scherbakova performance in JWC and nats, if she fail there, Alena and Sasha will got 2 spot, while she got 1 along with Gubanova and Shakanovich. I dont think they will push Gubanova in juniors because she didnt even do JGP, i know she has boot issues there but she has Buyanov influence now. But if Radionova try to make comeback using the comeback rule then i might see Gubanova staying in junior and Radionova getting that 1 spot left.

there is also scenario where the 3rd girl from worlds didnt place in top 12. Also Stasya/Gubanova might kicked out of top 20, Stasya is #22 while Gubanova is #20. Eunsoo has 4CC and Worlds to up her SB, Yelim have JWC, Yuna S have JWC, Yuhana Yokoi have JWC, Alena Kanysheva might have JWC. its unlikely though but it might happen.

Oh I guess you are right about Masha, she will either get 1 or 'focus on her studies'

Reigning National Senior Champion (!!!) Anna Shcherbakova will get 2 GP spots 100%, if push comes to shove they have the host pick at Rostelecom.

Luckily the season is not over yet, I dont doubt there will be some devellopments that will change our calculations.

We have a high chance of Tarakanova and Tarusina in the JGP for another season... I hope they keep fighting.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

You forgot Shakanovich guaranteed 1 spot, she is 15th in SB list with 202+ higher than 3 other ladies, no way she wont be submitted, she is guaranteed by the rule.... and Sotskova guaranteed 1 too given her WS probably stay in top 24 after this season end.

They're only guaranteed spots if RusFed submits them. Maria finished 16th out of 18 ladies at RusNats - I doubt she's getting GP spots except perhaps as a replacement. Serafima didn't qualify to RusNats and doesn't seem to be well-liked by RusFed, so I doubt she's getting submitted either.

If RusFed wants to guarantee that their top skaters get 2 spots, then they will only submit 9 names. Because otherwise, some will end up with one. And, Serafima and Maria seem to be the first to not get submitted next season.

 

[Ziotic]

With GP you also have to take into account that skaters are invited.

I mean USA will choose to invite Masha over Trusova if both are eligible, and tbh I’m not sure how many favours Russia can grant as most other countries don’t have 4+ people they want on GP in other disciplines.

I will be very interested to see what happens. I especially wonder if Rusfed can really block someone like Sima from doing GP completely even though she’s top 24.

 

[Tolstoj]

Evgenia went to Brian because she wants longevity and to be known as an artistic skater. Her body simply could not sustain Eteri's training methods and techniques. It was clearly causing her back problems, which she is still struggling with. I simply don't understand why people cannot understand this.

https://imgur.com/a/c4f2fUR

What a difference a year makes. She looks so much healthier and normal now.

At the same time, they are still in the process of readjusting everything, because Brian decided to change absolutely every single thing of her skating so nothing is consistent now.

it is funny how TSL chatterboxes were thrashing Zhenya for years before and now they changed their tune.

They fell into the "Eteri-evil trap, Brian best coach in the world just because he's not russian", and all that nonsense.

I don't blame Evgenia for the change, Orser is one of the best picks if you want to be a long-lasting skater but i think people overestimated Brian's success in ladies figure skating: He did great with Yuna but she came there already as arguagbly the best skater in the world, while Daleman has always been super inconsistent and her biggest result at Worlds came when other top skaters failed, and they were expecting to achieve a lot more with Elizabet Tursynbaeva. Already this season according to TSL (Dave is in-touch with Doug Haw) they were expecting Evgenia to win Worlds.

For me Brian needs to understand that their approach of "quality over quantity, you can't skate clean every single time" fits better with Men's figure skating where because of the quads there is an extra element of risk so you can expect even the big champions to fall, while in ladies it's a battle of consistency first and foremost.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

They're only guaranteed spots if RusFed submits them. Maria finished 16th out of 18 ladies at RusNats - I doubt she's getting GP spots except perhaps as a replacement. Serafima didn't qualify to RusNats and doesn't seem to be well-liked by RusFed, so I doubt she's getting submitted either.

If RusFed wants to guarantee that their top skaters get 2 spots, then they will only submit 9 names. Because otherwise, some will end up with one. And, Serafima and Maria seem to be the first to not get submitted next season.

I def agree with you, and these 9 will highly likely get spots. My question is though, did they submit Leonovas name then this season or was that the sole decision of NHK?

 

[Jontor]

Well, I could see it happening that there's just no room for them. Because this season alone, there are already too many ladies who by the rules deserve spots. And they - not by their own fault because they were injured - didn't skate at all this season. I can't see RusFed submitting any names that didn't make nationals - so I think them and Sakhanovich are out already. I think they'll stick to the "top" ones and only submit the names they want to see - 9 of them. So, my personal theory is that they will submit:

1. Zagitova. Olympic champion and atop the SB list. Potential world champion this year.
2. Tuktamysheva (if she continues). Comeback season is incredible, has 3A.
3. Trusova. Quads, quads, quads, and RusNats silver medalist.
4. Shcherbakova. Quads, senior champion this year, incredible artistry.
5. Kostornaya. Incredible artistry, solidly consistent, winning over her teammates as well, JGPF champion, 2x RusNats bronze medalist.
6. Medvedeva. They will want to give her a chance, and she still has a huge reputation.
7. Samodurova. She's on an upward trajectory and is likely to get a Euros medal this year.
8. Konstantinova. She is loved by RusFed and was the top senior at RusNats.
9. Tarusina. Her spot is the only one that I'm really speculating on - I think they will choose to go with her over Gubanova because she finished above her at nationals, is more consistent, has more results this season, and has a higher SB. But they could go with Gubanova because of Buyanova.

If Tuktamysheva decides she is done, I would think Gubanova would be submitted instead.

Interesting. And it makes sense. No nationals - no gp. But can they really refuse Sakhanovich and Sotskova if the rules say they are guaranteed a spot??
But I agree that it is in RusFeds interest to have only 9 girls with two spots. The ones with just one spot might interfere in the results and ruin the chances for the others to reach the GPF.

 

[starlight97]

Agreed. If you've ever read her interviews/quotes, you'd know she's very mature and has a really thoughtful perspective about being an athlete.

Maturity and thoughtfulness are absolutely not the opposites of introverted and low self esteem.
Alina can be, and is, both things at the same time.
I phrased is wrong maybe. To me Alina is a strong competitor but she doesn't seem to have the selfconfidence Evgenia has in the sense of saying "I'm the best."
Not even after winning the freaking Olympics did Alina jump to claim some much deserved glory for herself, she just quietly sat through condolences to Evgenia.
But maybe that has to do with being told your entire life you're not good enough. Idk just an impression she gives off and I know many viewers get the same feeling.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

I think Alina, Elizaveta and Sofia are guaranteed two spots. RusFed will probably give Stasya two spots two, even if she bombs at Euros (they have her two this year despite her bombing 2018 Worlds). Zhenya will most likely get two spots as well. Sasha, Anya and Alena will probably also get two spots because of their huge scoring potential.

Sima and Masha should be getting at least one GP, because the rules clearly state so.

But... I can see RusFed holding back their spots for Anna Tarusina or a comeback skater like Pogorilaya or Radionova. That means Gubanova probably won’t get an assignment (AGAIN! Why?) and Tarakanova will probably have to stay in juniors. Anyways, 18 spots is way to little for this deep field!

 

[Tavi...]

What about GS? I personally got occassional labels like "aggressive patriotism" while a couple of years ago supporting Zhenya against the tsunami of critics here. Where are all they now? Now somehow I became "the critic".

This is not a criticism of you, but I find it puzzling that anyone would question the motivation or sincerity of new fans of Zhenya or any other skater. People change their minds about things all the time. They learn new things. They are exposed to new things. Look at the fan fest threads, which have posts like, “hi, this is my first post here, I just saw skater x on YouTube [or at the Olympics or somewhere else] and I think s/he is wonderful and I’m so happy to have found this forum,” etc etc.

I also find it disturbing when any poster, in any thread, makes a comment like, “you don’t like skater x or coach y because she’s American” or “people from North America have only jumped on the Evgenia bandwagon because she’s training with Brian Orser.” IMO, it’s wrong to stereotype people; it’s good to remember that we’re all different and we don’t all think alike, no matter where we’re raised.

 

[vesperalvioletta]

You forgot Shakanovich guaranteed 1 spot, she is 15th in SB list with 202+ higher than 3 other ladies, no way she wont be submitted, she is guaranteed by the rule.... and Sotskova guaranteed 1 too given her WS probably stay in top 24 after this season end.

The Russian Federation doesn't seem to like Sakhanovich very much. I'm pretty much expecting her to be left off their submission list.