Open letter to Ottavio Cinquanta

[waxel]

I agree almost entirely with Sonia. Did you see Europeans? Appalling. I invited friends over to watch ... they are skating fans ... but not uber-fans like me. I was embarrassed. They were bored.

I also agree that Speedy doesn't care. Figure skating IS dying. The diamond in the crown of the Olympics is dimming every year. The TV contract to broadcast in the US went from 22 mil to 5 mil and there probably won't be one at all after 2008. Shouldn't that concern SOMEone in the ISU or IOC?

 

[Mathman]

I think Sonia means well, but I doubt any action will be taken on her advice.

Considering that they kicked her out of the ISU a few years ago, no, I don't think they will be following her advice. hwell:

 

[Spun Silver]

I agree with that but am running into a different issue with 4CC in the Springs this weekend with $5-25 dollar tickets for the Ladies LP.

What's the issue? $5-25 sounds great!

 

[skater 17]

I

also agree that Speedy doesn't care. Figure skating IS dying. The diamond in the crown of the Olympics is dimming every year. The TV contract to broadcast in the US went from 22 mil to 5 mil and there probably won't be one at all after 2008. Shouldn't that concern SOMEone in the ISU or IOC?

I agree the diamond is dimming and has for a number of years now, last Olympics just put the nails in the coffin. Ask people about the sport they say same thing over again (it fixed) it become a soap opera in thier eyes. In saying that I have heard little negitivity towards the skaters but mostly judges and the ISU (Cinquanta). Skating years ago had a classy appeal about it, now it's become one scandel after another. What can anyone do to fix the image skating now?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It all goes back to SLC and Speedy knew about it before hand, and tried his best to hide it and then let it happen. That was fraudulent sports given to the public and it hurt the sport much worse than Harding's escapades.

CoP was an attempt to get the phoenix rising out of those ashes. It's not working for the public. But it is more of an attempt to keep the public from knowing too much about the individual judges which was what SLC scandals was all about - judges and collusion!

Screw the Public, he needs a job.

Joe

 

[JonnyCoop]

ITA with her regarding the TV contract. It's ridiculous. I suppose for the next go-round, it'll end up exclusively on the Needlepoint Channel.

re. how CoP is shaping the programs -- I definitely agree that it doesn't leave a lot of room for any type of rest in your program if you're going to do it "the CoP way". (I imagine we're going to see a lot of gasping long about the 2-minute point in the free skates this week in the altitude of Colorado Springs; that was pretty much a problem there BEFORE CoP). I do notice, however, that at least some of the guys have been taking the old "stand n pose" breaks at the mid-point this season.

As to the "cookie cutter" thing -- I have been following skating since 1979 and people have been saying pretty much the same thing, in different ways, since then (and I'm sure since before) so that's nothing new. There will always be standout skaters, artistically, in any given time period, and everyone else -- meh. However, I do agree with it when it comes to Dance -- I used to love to watch Dance because it allowed for so much creativity, but the last couple of seasons, it's been pretty much the same Ripped Dress/Tortured Expression/FLOUNCE AND THRASH AROUND program, over and over, with a few exceptions. Tho it is good to see the Dance standings shift around, the dances themselves for the most part are yawners. And ITA with Sonia about the lift restrictions that turn the lady into a "pornographic handbag" or however she put it. Even Dubreil/Lauzon, who used to have marvelous lifts, are doing the same old same old now.

However, I fail to understand her point about none of the ladies doing the triple axel. She complains because skaters are over-reaching themselves technically trying to rack up points, then complains because no lady is doing the triple axel. Well, you can't have it both ways. Doesn't she remember that Midori Ito broke her leg trying to learn the thing?? She also talks about sloppy jumps -- well, do we want to see any MORE of them? I give you Kimmie's ALLEGED triple axel at the 05 Nats as a perfect example. Seems to me audiences would rather see clean performances interestingly done as opposed to a collection of ragged jumps that nonetheless rack up the points. Which she pretty much says as well.

 

[SeaniBu]

What's the issue? $5-25 sounds great!

a Different issue from the one in reference, not the same as too much $.

Sorry if I was unclear.

 

[kyla2]

Sonia

As far as I am concerned, she is right on every count. This sport is over within 3-5 years if changes aren't made. There will be no television coverage. I do have one point to make. because of SLC the ISU went into overdrive and overkill to correct a problem which really didn't exist. The "fixes" are the reason why skating has lost support.

 

[gsrossano]

A follow up blast from Sally Stapleford.

http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/current/content/Stapleford reply to Sonia .htm

 

[R.D.]

As far as I am concerned, she is right on every count. This sport is over within 3-5 years if changes aren't made. There will be no television coverage. I do have one point to make. because of SLC the ISU went into overdrive and overkill to correct a problem which really didn't exist. The "fixes" are the reason why skating has lost support.

I think that cheating judges were the real problem, not the subjectivity. As we can see now this new scoring system was supposed to remove controversy and that hasn't happened at ALL.

 

[Mathman]

A follow up blast from Sally Stapleford.

http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/current/content/Stapleford reply to Sonia .htm

Thanks for the link.

One question. Ms. Stapleford concludes that Cinquanta needs to step back and let more knowledgable people like David Dore take over the judging system. Wasn't Dore one of the main architects of the ISU judging system as it stands?

Great point about "the corridore." Judges are afraid to mark PCSs too far from what they think the average of the other judges is likely to be. So they feel pressured to give the same scores across the five components based on what previous judging panels gave the skater in the past.

I am not so sure that the NJS is to blame for there being no superstars at the moment (unless maybe trying to scrunch up her body into CoP-friendly spin positions aggravated Michelle Kwan's cronic injuries and forced her out of the sport prematurely.) No matter what the judging system, old stars will retire, new stars will shine. (Go Mao!)

I don't know whether Stapleford and Bianchetti are right in their belief that the Code of Points will, and already has, taken away any chance of our seeing beautiful programs ever again, that we will never see another John Curry or Janet Lynn. I suppose time will tell.

What makes me feel most uneasy about the ISU judging system is not any of the details, it is the thing itself. Figure skating is a judged sport. As David Pelletier put it in the midst of the Salt Lake City controversy, "If I wanted to be judged by a stopwatch I'd be racing downhill on skis."

 

[kyla2]

Red Dog

Cheating judges have been a problem from the time skating became a sport. That's nothing new and had nothing to do with the decline of the sport. It's more a combination of factors that came together-almost like a "perfect storm." The loss of Michelle, Sasha, and Irina; the cheapening of the sport with cheesefests; the new ISU judging system making the judging too complex and inaccessible for the general public, while simultaneously devaluing clean programs; the overexposure of the sport with touring skating shows; and in my opinion, the awarding of two gold medals in Salt Lake City (it devalued the gold medal). Joe posted a thread about the simultaneous showing of 4CC and the Nationals Exhibitons and what poor planning that was by ABC. I think the more important point is that very few people care about either one.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Stapelford's essay is also right on. I'm spending money to go to Tokyo to see:

a) which single skater has the best jumps.

b) which Pair Team has the most convoluted lifts, and throws and no moves in the Field

c) I wont go into Dance. It is a very strange discipline. Just hope they stay away from the samba, rhumba, cha cha, merengue, mambo.

Joe

 

[hockeyfan228]

I don't know whether Stapleford and Bianchetti are right in their belief that the Code of Points will, and already has, taken away any chance of our seeing beautiful programs ever again, that we will never see another John Curry or Janet Lynn. I suppose time will tell.

Exactly what system(s) was in place between John Curry (1976) and Janet Lynn (1972-3)? Is CoP responsible for the so-called lack of great programs in the last 30+ years, when its been in place for exactly 4, with ISU championships using it for exactly 2?

 

[rain]

Cheating judges have been a problem from the time skating became a sport. That's nothing new and had nothing to do with the decline of the sport. It's more a combination of factors that came together-almost like a "perfect storm." The loss of Michelle, Sasha, and Irina; the cheapening of the sport with cheesefests; the new ISU judging system making the judging too complex and inaccessible for the general public, while simultaneously devaluing clean programs; the overexposure of the sport with touring skating shows; and in my opinion, the awarding of two gold medals in Salt Lake City (it devalued the gold medal). Joe posted a thread about the simultaneous showing of 4CC and the Nationals Exhibitons and what poor planning that was by ABC. I think the more important point is that very few people care about either one.

To some extent I think you're right in that there are a lot more factors that have led to the so-called decline of skating than just COP. However, from what I understand, even before Michelle, Sasha et al called it quits the sport was already declining. I distinctly remember the moaning. I don't think the two gold medals in SLC had anything to do with it.

However, the perfect storm part is right on. The whole Tonya/ Nancy soap opera and subsequent explosion of interest in figure skating gave networks and fans an unrealistic and unsustainable expectation of the popularity of skating. It was inevitable that it would not maintain those numbers. But, as in so many other industries, sustainability is not something broadcast networks seem to be all that interested in. So now they view a drop, any drop in numbers as a failure of skating, when in fact it's more likely just a natural readjustment following the natural disaster.

Likewise, after the explosion of interest, there was an explosion of pro competitions, pro-ams, cheesefests and other shows - many of which weren't any good, or were downright embarrassing - that I totally agree cheapened figure skating, and no doubt had a big part in alienating the casual or new fans attracted by the knee knock. Add to that the ever-increasing pressure on networks for ratings made harder by an explosion of small cable channels, and of course people are running around saying the sky is falling.

 

[SeaniBu]

The whole Tonya/ Nancy soap opera and subsequent explosion of interest in figure skating gave networks and fans an unrealistic and unsustainable expectation of the popularity of skating. It was inevitable that it would not maintain those numbers. But, as in so many other industries, sustainability is not something broadcast networks seem to be all that interested in. So now they view a drop, any drop in numbers as a failure of skating, when in fact it's more likely just a natural readjustment following the natural disaster.

They did not try changing their approach in any extent when newbeez started getting interested, so the ones that gained interest fell away as soon as they saw the factors so omnipresent which were why they weren't watching in the FS first place. JMO ( O is for observation)

 

[kyla2]

Rain

Thanks for your response. The reason I think the two gold medals played a part is that it turned off potential viewers of figure skating. People figured if you have a sport that can't get the judging right, why bother to watch. I am one of those that feel the right result was reached the first time. If the ISU judges had hung tough and explained why the first result ended up the way it did, the sport would have maintained consistency and credibility in its judging. People have argued results from time immemorial, but the judges have always been able to justify the result and legitimately so. But they bowed to pressure from the Canadians and the sport lost all credibility. They never shoild have caved.

 

[amber68]

Thanks for your response. The reason I think the two gold medals played a part is that it turned off potential viewers of figure skating. People figured if you have a sport that can't get the judging right, why bother to watch.

As some other posters mentioned, the potential viewers were turned off only in USA and Canada. In Europe and Asia figure skating is doing fine and is still very popular (Eurosport broadcast of 4CC is a proof).
So if NJS,SLC scandal , mentioned by so many posters, are the real reasons for low audiences in USA and Canada, shouldn't they have had the same effects on all the continents?

 

[antmanb]

Thanks for your response. The reason I think the two gold medals played a part is that it turned off potential viewers of figure skating. People figured if you have a sport that can't get the judging right, why bother to watch. I am one of those that feel the right result was reached the first time. If the ISU judges had hung tough and explained why the first result ended up the way it did, the sport would have maintained consistency and credibility in its judging. People have argued results from time immemorial, but the judges have always been able to justify the result and legitimately so. But they bowed to pressure from the Canadians and the sport lost all credibility. They never shoild have caved.

If the only thing in question was the judges marks on the night, then it would have gone down as one of the great debates over the years like Nancy and Oksana in 1994. The thing that made all the difference with this case was that Le Gougne confessed to having been pressurised by the federation and exposed the quid pro quo - pairs for dance. Then the whistle blowers in the form of Stapleford et al called it all into question. Deals were exposed that night which the ISU never investigated and the heads that rolled were not the ones of the cheating conspiring judges, it was the heads of the whitleblowers.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Thanks for your response. The reason I think the two gold medals played a part is that it turned off potential viewers of figure skating. .

The reason I think the two gold medals played a part is that it ceased the investigation to find out who Didier was colluding with.

Joe