2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[flanker]

I actually welcome the fact that Alena will not have another lyrical program

I wouldn't mind lyrical program but in some recent interview Daniil have said something like that while it is tempting to give e.g. Aliona princess/angelic-like programs (don't remember what words he exactly used) over and over, it of course can't be all the time. They can't push skaters still into one image-type.

 

[Amei]

I get your point. At the end of june Alena, Alina, Anna and Alexandra participated in a series of skating shows in Japan. I doubt that her team would let her go if they knew her injury was not healed, considering she jumped a lot (also showed a good form there).

Last week she posted about her music change - so if there are legimate rumours about an injury it must be something quite recent, during practice. I also don't see how an injury would lead to her changing her new SP into a LP.

If it's nothing official I would dismiss the rumous. On twitter I've read weeks ago stupid things in english (don't know if they are russians) - that her team "hates" her because she is not jumping quads I tried to reason with one by pointing that Alina doesn't jump quads or 3A and she's not "hated" by the team. It was in vain.

Her LP music is powerfull, modern and I don't see how the judges won't like it. Those songs "Eyes On Fire" and "Supermassive Black Hole" were not created especially for Twilight. Alena it's not the first one to skate to Muse If the choreo is on point and modern I see an amazing vehicle for Alena's senior debut. From my perspective, Daniil does better the "image" sort of choreography than the "story-telling" one. I actually welcome the fact that Alena will not have another lyrical program

I don't think that's an indicator that she's not injured - skaters get paid to do these shows, maybe she doesn't want to pass the money up or the opportunity to build a fanbase and marketability outside of Russia; plus we've seen Sambo skaters doing quads/triple axels in exhibition lighting situations (which isn't that great). Alina Z. was supposedly injured at both Nationals and GPF, but then in meaningless exhibitions at those competitions she was whipping out combination jumps....My point is injuries hasn't stopped this group from doing physically demanding things when it's unnecessary so just because she went to Japan to do skating shows doesn't point to me that she's not injured.


And while Twilight was a cringeworthy movie - the music wasn't terrible.

 

[maggieanne]

I’m really looking forward to seeing how Alina’s short turns out. I feel like it has potential to be a pretty iconic program, but it will be a big challenge for her. Just from listening to it, it doesn’t seem like it will suit her usual quick complicated steps (but she may be able to prove me wrong.) Personally, I’m crossing my fingers for a slower program with some good extension.

 

[nussnacker]

Concerning Alena Kostornaia I don't get why some people are making such a big thing of her changing her music. First it's better now than in the middle of the season like some skaters are doing.

Secondly Alena herself stated in an interview that she wants another image - opposite to the angel theme she presented last year. I can understand that a teenage girl can be tired of the angel image. It suits her on ice, but according to Daniil not so much in real life

It's better that her team finds a music that Alena actually likes to skate. It's more important than what we, figure skating fans, wish she would skate to. Just my opinion!

Agree. :agree2:

 

[SkateSkates]

Concerning Alena Kostornaia I don't get why some people are making such a big thing of her changing her music. First it's better now than in the middle of the season like some skaters are doing.

Secondly Alena herself stated in an interview that she wants another image - opposite to the angel theme she presented last year. I can understand that a teenage girl can be tired of the angel image. It suits her on ice, but according to Daniil not so much in real life

It's better that her team finds a music that Alena actually likes to skate. It's more important than what we, figure skating fans, wish she would skate to. Just my opinion!

I think what’s concerning is that we don’t know why the change was made. Her original post about her LP was deleted and the post about the vampire program was edited from saying it would be her LP now (instead of SP). I think this has lead to a lot of speculation (myself included) about the status of her recovery/injury. So I personally am hoping we hear what happened at the test skates - maybe they made the LP and it didn’t turn out as expected, so plan B was go back to the SP and turn the exhibition into a LP instead, because it is clearly a program Aliona enjoys. Or maybe they have been focused on getting her previous skills back post injury and didn’t have time to make 2 programs. It’s just concerning because no clear announcement was made.

 

[flanker]

I think what’s concerning is that we don’t know why the change was made. Her original post about her LP was deleted and the post about the vampire program was edited from saying it would be her LP now (instead of SP). I think this has lead to a lot of speculation (myself included) about the status of her recovery/injury. So I personally am hoping we hear what happened at the test skates - maybe they made the LP and it didn’t turn out as expected, so plan B was go back to the SP and turn the exhibition into a LP instead, because it is clearly a program Aliona enjoys. Or maybe they have been focused on getting her previous skills back post injury and didn’t have time to make 2 programs. It’s just concerning because no clear announcement was made.

I don't understand how the change of music could be related to injury/recovery. Whatever music it will be, the program's elements would be more or less the same and would require more or less the same amount of effort.

 

[Georgya]

]I don't think that's an indicator that she's not injured - skaters get paid to do these shows, maybe she doesn't want to pass the money up or the opportunity to build a fanbase and marketability outside of Russia; plus we've seen Sambo skaters doing quads/triple axels in exhibition lighting situations (which isn't that great).[/B] Alina Z. was supposedly injured at both Nationals and GPF, but then in meaningless exhibitions at those competitions she was whipping out combination jumps....My point is injuries hasn't stopped this group from doing physically demanding things when it's unnecessary so just because she went to Japan to do skating shows doesn't point to me that she's not injured.


And while Twilight was a cringeworthy movie - the music wasn't terrible.

I think you are generalizing and people can read between your words the implications you are making. What you didn't say it's that they are two very diffrent type of situations and injuries and jumping quads/triple axels in exhibition lighting situations is not exclusive to sambo.

It's not moral to paint the russian ladies from this group in a certain light. I hope you get that by your words you didn't criticise only the team, but the lady in cause and her familly. Or at least this is what transpired. Your opinion is your opinion, that being said, I still believe if Alena was injured in june she wouldn't be allowed to skate by her team in Japan.

 

[laybackrelaxspinfast]

I’m a really big fan of Alina’s SP music. I did say earlier that I felt she needed something more powerful with a bit more soul, I think this is it and it really suits her. I just hope she can really emote and sell it. Can’t say I’m sold on the FS music just yet though, but we will see how it goes. I’m never usually a fan of the Arabic/Egyptian type music and the programs that come from it. But I’m open to being surprised and she might just make a beautiful program out of it. :agree:

 

[Georgya]

I think what’s concerning is that we don’t know why the change was made. Her original post about her LP was deleted and the post about the vampire program was edited from saying it would be her LP now (instead of SP). I think this has lead to a lot of speculation (myself included) about the status of her recovery/injury. So I personally am hoping we hear what happened at the test skates - maybe they made the LP and it didn’t turn out as expected, so plan B was go back to the SP and turn the exhibition into a LP instead, because it is clearly a program Aliona enjoys. Or maybe they have been focused on getting her previous skills back post injury and didn’t have time to make 2 programs. It’s just concerning because no clear announcement was made.

I understand this. But I don't get the imediate correlation with injury if you don't read the rumours. In my case after reading Alena's news about programs I imediate thought that her team is pretty busy making programs this summer and maybe they should seek help, if not foreign, at least in Russia.

I mean it's hard to make so many high competitive programs, to find inspiration. I wouldn't mind if this team would get help from outside. Maybe I'm wrong about this but I would love for them to experiment with other brains hopefully from Europe, I'm not a big fan of north american choreography

 

[tempo]

Alina has posted herself:
"..and my new short program music in the coming season will be soulful Yasmin Levy - Me Voy"

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz5I7ewJy2W/?igshid=8sxopdxx7ytj

The music without voice version:
https://minus1.ru/songs/yasmin-levy-me-voy

 

[Georgya]

Alina has posted herself:
"..and my new short program music in the coming season will be soulful Yasmin Levy - Me Voy"

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz5I7ewJy2W/?igshid=8sxopdxx7ytj

The music without voice version:
https://minus1.ru/songs/yasmin-levy-me-voy

For her japanese fans please notice that she translated in japanese after russian and before english It says a lot about her love for Japan

 

[Fluture]

I get your point. At the end of june Alena, Alina, Anna and Alexandra participated in a series of skating shows in Japan. I doubt that her team would let her go if they knew her injury was not healed, considering she jumped a lot (also showed a good form there).

Last week she posted about her music change - so if there are legimate rumours about an injury it must be something quite recent, during practice. I also don't see how an injury would lead to her changing her new SP into a LP.

If it's nothing official I would dismiss the rumours. On twitter I've read weeks ago stupid things in english (don't know if they are russians) - that her team "hates" her because she is not jumping quads I tried to reason with one by pointing that Alina doesn't jump quads or 3A and she's not "hated" by the team. It was in vain.

Her LP music is powerfull, modern and I don't see how the judges won't like it. Those songs "Eyes On Fire" and "Supermassive Black Hole" were not created especially for Twilight. Alena it's not the first one to skate to Muse If the choreo is on point and modern I see an amazing vehicle for Alena's senior debut. From my perspective, Daniil does better the "image" sort of choreography than the "story-telling" one. I actually welcome the fact that Alena will not have another lyrical program

You know, usually I don‘t like to listen to rumors because most of them are really stupid. Exactly like the thing that the team ”hates“ any of their current skaters, who should believe that? But the thing is, from what I‘ve experienced, these rumors have usually been right on two things - coaching changes and injuries. Of course, this doesn‘t have to mean that Aliona really is injured, not at all, but well, I can‘t help but being worried.

About the show... Well, I have to say and I want to say it as neutrally as possible: This would not be the first case were skaters jumped even with injuries. It doesn‘t mean that this only happens in Russia or only in this team, of course, before anyone accuses me of being biased. Joseph Phan is training 4Lo because it‘s the only jump he was cleared to do by the doctors. However, I know it becomes repetitive but I have one glaring example in mind and that‘s Zhenya. She was allowed by her team to jump with a stress fracture in exhibitions! So, I do not think shows or some skaters jumping during them are any true indicators of whether they are injured or not. That‘s why I just hope we‘ll get an announcement soon so we don‘t have to worry anymore.

I wouldn‘t mind a lyrical program, in fact, I would love it. But I have no problem with the music, again, if it‘s modern and on point, it can indeed become great and show Aliona‘s versatility. Especially if it’s paired with a more lyrical SP. I personally would just have liked it more if the SP was the program to experiment, rather than the FS that’s a large proportion of the competition. It would have been safer to play to what we know her strengths are with a more lyrical FS. Also, saying it again, it’s more the theme I have a problem with because vampires and Twilight just seem childish so I do hope that this influence will be minimized to a dark costume and make up and the rest of the choreography will not include any hand biting or stuff like that.

In my case after reading Alena's news about programs I imediate thought that her team is pretty busy making programs this summer and maybe they should seek help, if not foreign, at least in Russia.

I mean it's hard to make so many high competitive programs, to find inspiration. I wouldn't mind if this team would get help from outside. Maybe I'm wrong about this but I would love for them to experiment with other brains hopefully from Europe, I'm not a big fan of north american choreography

I would love this! I have said it a lot already but it would be cool to have some Tutberidze skaters work with another choreographer than Daniil. Zhenya did it, even Yulia did it, so why not the others? Especially now when there are so many skaters in their team that all need top notch programs because they are top notch skaters. I mean, Daniil will have to make programs for five senior ladies, two for each of them. Then we have Usacheva, Valieva, Kanysheva, Khromykh, that‘s another 8 programs. 18 programs already. It just seems too much for one person, even if Eteri is helping him. So, why not work with somebody else? I could see Averbukh working well with Anna’s or Aliona’s style for example. Daniil‘s programs can be great, when he‘s inspired. Alina‘s Black Swan was amazing, as were Tarakanova‘s programs he made for her for example. But with so many skaters.... he‘s bound to lose inspiration sometimes. And I want all of them to have great programs.

 

[Georgya]

I would love this! I have said it a lot already but it would be cool to have some Tutberidze skaters work with another choreographer than Daniil. Zhenya did it, even Yulia did it, so why not the others? Especially now when there are so many skaters in their team that all need top notch programs because they are top notch skaters. I mean, Daniil will have to make programs for five senior ladies, two for each of them. Then we have Usacheva, Valieva, Kanysheva, Khromykh, that‘s another 8 programs. 18 programs already. It just seems too much for one person, even if Eteri is helping him. So, why not work with somebody else? I could see Averbukh working well with Anna’s or Aliona’s style for example. Daniil‘s programs can be great, when he‘s inspired. Alina‘s Black Swan was amazing, as were Tarakanova‘s programs he made for her for example. But with so many skaters.... he‘s bound to lose inspiration sometimes. And I want all of them to have great programs.[/QUOTE]


My point exactly Maybe a russian could explain how this works. If Alena wants a SP by Averbukh, his fee comes from Alena's familly or the federation? Also I'm afraid some skaters don't bring up this in order not to offend Eteri, Daniil etc. It's not that I don't trust them, they did stellar work with Alina's Olympic Programs, but 18 NEW programs in a season, 10 of them for seniors skaters it screams HELP!

 

[flanker]

I understand this. But I don't get the imediate correlation with injury if you don't read the rumours. In my case after reading Alena's news about programs I imediate thought that her team is pretty busy making programs this summer and maybe they should seek help, if not foreign, at least in Russia.

I mean it's hard to make so many high competitive programs, to find inspiration. I wouldn't mind if this team would get help from outside. Maybe I'm wrong about this but I would love for them to experiment with other brains hopefully from Europe, I'm not a big fan of north american choreography

i'm not against the idea of another choreographer making part of the programs, it is natural that with so many top skaters the amount of work for Daniil and Eteri, who is making some choreos too, is enormous. Also another attitude can be useful if apllied carefully. The only thing is that for me choreographer should know the skater well, so the choreo should fit the skater, character etc. Hiring an external choreographer just for choreo is for me not the right way. Like in case of Medvedeva the thing why her Tosca program worked so well for her is that Misha Ge knows her, he is her friend. In case of Eteri's team if somebody Else than Daniil or Eteri should do some programs, it should be also somebody who would do that with better knowledge of the girls (ideal case would be hiring another team member ). The other side is financial. I'm not aware of the prices but I guess that choreographers from abroad would be too expensive at least for juniors.

 

[Fluture]

My point exactly Maybe a russian could explain how this works. If Alena wants a SP by Averbukh, his fee comes from Alena's familly or the federation? Also I'm afraid some skaters don't bring up this in order not to offend Eteri, Daniil etc. It's not that I don't trust them, they did stellar work with Alina's Olympic Programs, but 18 NEW programs in a season, 10 of them for seniors skaters it screams HELP!

I don‘t see it as a matter of trust, to be honest. And I also don‘t see why anybody should be offended about it, Daniil and Eteri included. Skaters work with different choreographers all the time, it‘s no big deal. In fact, I even think it‘s part of the artistic growth, to work with different people who have a different way of approaching a program. It widens your horizon. And it doesn‘t mean that all skaters should suddenly change choreographers. A few, maybe, could get a SP done by Averbukh, the others a FS by somebody else and Daniil and Eteri do the rest. I personally think that if you have more time to really devote yourself to the creation of a program, the end result will be better. So, if Daniil and Eteri only have, let‘s say, 10 programs to create, instead of 18, I could see the results being better as well. This is not to say they were bad last season, there were some very memorable programs like Aliona‘s and Anna‘s SP. But I think it might be something worth thinking about.

And it would be interesting to hear how choreographers are paid in Russia. I‘d say from my guess that the federation would pay Averbukh, they pay Daniil too after all and it‘s not like the skater wants choreo done in the US where there are additional expenses.

 

[Lunalovesskating]

I don‘t see it as a matter of trust, to be honest. And I also don‘t see why anybody should be offended about it, Daniil and Eteri included. Skaters work with different choreographers all the time, it‘s no big deal. In fact, I even think it‘s part of the artistic growth, to work with different people who have a different way of approaching a program. It widens your horizon. And it doesn‘t mean that all skaters should suddenly change choreographers. A few, maybe, could get a SP done by Averbukh, the others a FS by somebody else and Daniil and Eteri do the rest. I personally think that if you have more time to really devote yourself to the creation of a program, the end result will be better. So, if Daniil and Eteri only have, let‘s say, 10 programs to create, instead of 18, I could see the results being better as well. This is not to say they were bad last season, there were some very memorable programs like Aliona‘s and Anna‘s SP. But I think it might be something worth thinking about.

And it would be interesting to hear how choreographers are paid in Russia. I‘d say from my guess that the federation would pay Averbukh, they pay Daniil too after all and it‘s not like the skater wants choreo done in the US where there are additional expenses.

There are also a few novice girls and boys as well as Moris and Daniil S. in Team Tutberidze, so it probably adds up to around 30 programs a season. That is a lot of programs even for an experienced choreographer. And we if we also count the few gala programs the senior ladies and maybe a few juniors will get this season it will be even more programs. I think Averbukh would be a great option, he knows Team Tutberidze very well and he knows what they want in a program difficulty and transition wise.

 

[Alexz]

I'm not Russian, but NO THANK YOU. Alina and 3A stay right there they are. Eteri and Danii gave them great and winning programs previous season and years before that. No need for Averbukh or Zhulin now. Or anyone else for that matter. If you want their choreo for other skaters - fine, they can have their stuff. As for me, I (and the hordes of other fans of Eteri girls) am happy with the current situation for Zags and 3A. Med's programs of last year were horrible and empty. All of them. Send Misha Ge and alikes to other skaters please, but not to Alina, Anna, Alyona or Sasha. Thank you, but no thank you. Because I want to keep enjoying their skating for many upcoming years as well.

 

[Alexz]

I repeat: NO Averbukh, please. I have a feeling we won't see him working with Eteri skaters any time soon, if ever. *fingers crossed*

 

[Lunalovesskating]

I repeat: NO Averbukh, please. I have a feeling we won't see him working with Eteri skaters any time soon, if ever. *fingers crossed*

You clearly haven't been uptodate

https://youtu.be/4EsHxi4hgqY
https://youtu.be/MILjmJ_oOT8

 

[esteticlove]

i'm not against the idea of another choreographer making part of the programs, it is natural that with so many top skaters the amount of work for Daniil and Eteri, who is making some choreos too, is enormous. Also another attitude can be useful if apllied carefully. The only thing is that for me choreographer should know the skater well, so the choreo should fit the skater, character etc. Hiring an external choreographer just for choreo is for me not the right way. Like in case of Medvedeva the thing why her Tosca program worked so well for her is that Misha Ge knows her, he is her friend. In case of Eteri's team if somebody Else than Daniil or Eteri should do some programs, it should be also somebody who would do that with better knowledge of the girls (ideal case would be hiring another team member ). The other side is financial. I'm not aware of the prices but I guess that choreographers from abroad would be too expensive at least for juniors.

I agree with you. I think that what they currently need is just a new person who can bring up some fresh ideas. Eteri and Daniil would still make the most of the work and decide if those new ideas are good or bad since they know their students so well. I also think that if we are aware of this problem, they surely also are because it concerns their own work. Just like some seasons ago they hired an extra coach (Ryazanov) to help out with the trainings and the logistic of travelling with so much students. Thinking about it, they actually have another choreographer - but he's a dance choreographer and not a skater: Zheleznyakov. Still, Daniil incorporated part of Alexei's choreography into Anna's Samurai gala program and probably that was just the beginning of their common work. :agree: I would be happy to see more programs with Alexei's ideas because he's proven with his videos that he's very versatile. They had jazz dances, funky ones, modern dances (Alina, Sasha, Anna dancing to Sia) and also some very sensual onces (Valieva and Kromykh).