2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 580 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

To be fair what Yagudin makes even nastier comments about Russian male skaters like saying they should grow a pair)) What did Averbuch say? I watched LP on youtube but all I got from SP was him calling one program boring and saying Medvedeva had a terrible skate (which she did).

He said her performance was “catastrophically weak”, he also said she had both flip and toe underrotated and that 2axel is the easiest jump and yet she still struggles with it. I mean... he has a soft tone in his voice, so it’s not that noticeable if you don’t really listen attentively:)

Yagudin... yeah, he likes to say men should “men up” essentially. Tarasova is pretty nasty too about pretty much everyone but hee favorites. She also finds it okay to say pretty mean things about the bodies of girls, so I find it to be next level disturbing.
 
Medvedeva needs to skate outside of Canada next season seems she gets jinxed there, also she should hope she gets a Cup of Russia inflation so she gets 2 GP assignments next season. I dont think she has high chance of making the Worlds or Euros team, she is more inconsistent now than Zagitova was last season. Shes done.
We were surely missing someone predicting doom and gloom.
 
Yep, I’m pretty sure I said Alysa doesn’t have it any easier than Trusova, but also doesn’t have it harder since Trusova probably experiences the harshest critique from everyone.
And I don’t think it’s fair to compare commentators and fans, with casual viewers I kind of expect that they could be nasty and vicious since ... it’s the internet. However, paid commentators are (or should be) professional. Hence, I don’t think it’s fair to even put these two next to each other.

But you can’t say the American commentators have criticized only the Russian ladies but not Alysa. That’s simply untrue. Tara Lipinski was practically beaming on NBC about Anna’s quads last weekend. They even interviewed her after and didn’t bother with Bradie. When Terry Gannon asked what other skaters should “do” because it seems like it is impossible to win now (kind of baiting Tara and/or Johnny into saying it’s unfair blah blah) Tara simply said “get a quad”. They were encouraging it! They all agreed that it is utter BS that quads aren’t allowed in the short and said they should be allowed. Tara was all about quads quads and more quads the whole time; any mere mentioning of a rule change was immediately shunned. There were some words about the “quality of the skating” and “connection to the music” of the new Russian seniors in comparison to the older ladies but it was no different than what was said about Alysa at nationals in comparison to Bradie and Mariah. They made it very clear that Alysa had all the technical power but was lacking in many of the other areas that are judged. No hypocrisy there as far as I can see.

I don’t know what these TSN people said but they’re not American. Americans and Canadians are not the same. From what I have observed Canadian skating fans aren’t any more invested in Alysa than the fans of any other nation separate from the US.
 
He said her performance was “catastrophically weak”, he also said she had both flip and toe underrotated and that 2axel is the easiest jump and yet she still struggles with it. I mean... he has a soft tone in his voice, so it’s not that noticeable if you don’t really listen attentively:)

.

I remember now but I did not find it nasty at the time. Well he’s personally invested in Medvedeva as she’s in his shows and he’s SP choreographer so probably he got too annoyed to control himself
 
But you can’t say the American commentators have criticized only the Russian ladies but not Alysa. That’s simply untrue. Tara Lipinski was practically beaming on NBC about Anna’s quads last weekend. They even interviewed her after and didn’t bother with Bradie. When Terry Gannon asked what other skaters should “do” because it seems like it is impossible to win now (kind of baiting Tara and/or Johnny into saying it’s unfair blah blah) Tara simply said “get a quad”. They were encouraging it! They all agreed that it is utter BS that quads aren’t allowed in the short and said they should be allowed. Tara was all about quads quads and more quads the whole time; any mere mentioning of a rule change was immediately shunned. There were some words about the “quality of the skating” and “connection to the music” of the new Russian seniors in comparison to the older ladies but it was no different than what was said about Alysa at nationals in comparison to Bradie and Mariah. They made it very clear that Alysa had all the technical power but was lacking in many of the other areas that are judged. No hypocrisy there as far as I can see.

I don’t know what these TSN people said but they’re not American. Americans and Canadians are not the same. From what I have observed Canadian skating fans aren’t any more invested in Alysa than the fans of any other nation separate from the US.

I did not say it, and I don’t think anyone here did. There are nasty commentators in every country.
 
You mean like all those fans who were saying the most disgustingly rude and pathetic things I have ever seen about Alysa when she won on the JGP, many of whom were Russian? So much so that the ISU has to issue a warning about tone when commenting on the skaters, the chats were turned off, and the comment section under the JGP videos was disabled.

What are you talking about? I see you like Alysa but comments and chats under ISU JGP streams and videos were turned off a year ago when she definitely didn't win any JGP because she didn't take part in the JGP circle at all.

I would also add that most rude comments about Alysa I've noticed were from US spectators when she won US nationals and beaten stars like Bradie and Mariah.
 
Still doesn’t negate the fact that the ISU issued a warning after some horrible things were said about Alysa (and I’m sure others as well). Maybe you only saw rude comments from US fans but I saw many from Russian fans on various platforms. I never said just Russian fans, only that they were included. I’m not going to stand for people stating or implying it only being directed at the Russian ladies from American fans and never the other way around because that’s not true.
 
I did not say it, and I don’t think anyone here did. There are nasty commentators in every country.

No it was definitely implied that the American commentators are hypocritical and biased and encouraging a lot of the hate from fans. The person confused TSN as American saying that they had commented on Alysa before and were glowing with positivity when in fact they never have commentated on her to my knowledge. And the actual American commenters criticized her just as much as they do the Russian ladies (not very harsh on any of them because they love quads and 3As).

To the person who said this: you can agree or disagree with TSN but you can’t call it hypocritical based on something that never even happened.
 
You mean like all those fans who were saying the most horrible and pathetic things I have ever seen about Alysa when she won on the JGP, many of whom were Russian? So much so that the ISU has to issue a warning about tone when commenting on the skaters, the chats were turned off, and the comment section under the JGP videos was disabled.

Get real people. There are horrible nasty hypocritical jealous biased people in every nation including yours and it happens to skaters from all over. People are going to be overwhelmed with joy and pride moreso about their own skaters, period. That’s nothing that any country is more guilty of than others. If someone was to criticize Sasha but didn’t hold Alysa to the same standard then certainly that would be hypocritical as she definitely deserves a similar critique, but I see that kind of hypocrisy everywhere. It’s not like any of you were defending or giving a crap about Alysa when it was aimed at her.

I also think it’s possible to praise both Sasha and Alysa in one moment for doing quads but in the next moment talk about all the ways they can improve in the PCS categories (even if the language is sometimes blunt). If this was essentially what TSN did then I don’t see how they did anything wrong. They weren’t the ones offering nothing but praise to Alysa so you can’t call them hypocrites on this point. That information was incorrect.

I don't want to discuss Alysa here since this is about the russian ladies, but from what I read online, another site, twitter even vk in russian with google translate, I was shocked how the russians were actually defending and praising Alysa. I remember, on twitter she was put down mostly by nord americans and some asians. Anyway, for the rest here, whataboutism doesn't work to justify something. We all can agree we can criticise Alexandra without name calling and insults.

I actually think her PCS at SC are deserved and not overscored!!
 
I mean agree there are limits. Averbuck crosses those limits for me. So, did the comments that were made about Jason by a certain commentator. But, the TSN commentators weren't saying anything everyone doesn't already know. No one watches Trusova for her beautiful SS or artistry. They watch her because she is a crazy good jumper disguised as an adorable tiny girl. It isn't biased to say her athletism is what drives her wins... it is fact.

Actually, you can only speak for yourself on this one. Trusova”s EX performances gather as much, if not more views than her competitive skates. So people do watch Trusova for her performance and artistry. Trusova is not a typical lyrical skater, but she exudes power and confidence, she has an immense amount of energy translating through screens, and I love watching her with or without her quads. Her “Unstoppable” EX is one of my favorites, it’s so full of that joyous power, which I think is very characteristic of her, and many people love her for being her that kind of performer.

She’s not disguised as an adorable little girl, she’s an adorable little girl, however in her performances she’s looks anything but “adorable and little”.
 
He said her performance was “catastrophically weak”, he also said she had both flip and toe underrotated and that 2axel is the easiest jump and yet she still struggles with it. I mean... he has a soft tone in his voice, so it’s not that noticeable if you don’t really listen attentively:)

Yagudin... yeah, he likes to say men should “men up” essentially. Tarasova is pretty nasty too about pretty much everyone but hee favorites. She also finds it okay to say pretty mean things about the bodies of girls, so I find it to be next level disturbing.

I gave it to him that he is at least an unbias commentator. Medvedeva is his muse and the skater that epitomizes his style. If that were other choreographers they'd be excusing bad skates of their clients and extolling them to high heavens when they skate well.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGI4Fs82Z6I

Did you hear all bs that TSN commentators are spewing? Ugh :drama:
They are clearly intent on ruining Sasha's performance for all American viewers as much as possible and are so in a hurry of setting their narration that in middle of her step sequence they are already starting their hatespeech about how she is "slow, not artistic, just a jumping machine" etc. Such a contrast between how they are usually commenting about Liu's skating :rolleye:
And yet people here are preaching me that there is "fair attitude to all nations", "I am just conspiracy theories freak", "noone hates Russians", "there is no double standarts" etc. What a hypocrites :sarcasm:

Well, first of all TSN are Canadians, so I don‘t know why they would be so keen on praising Alysa Liu, an American, all too heavily. If Alysa was Canadian, then maybe. But not like this. Canadians and Americans are not the same. :laugh:

And really, I‘ve just watched the whole video. And I can‘t see any “bs“. If anything, they were making fair points.

“She knows how it‘s like to win and obviously she knows how it‘s like to fly.“

Isn‘t that a nice quote? ;)

Anyway, the female commentator knows a thing or two about skating skills considering that she was a pretty successful ice dancer in the past.... So yes, the first thing she will notice are just these skating skills. And we have to be fair, Sasha‘s skating does become slower and more laboured, especially in the step sequence, when she has these four quads. It‘s very noticeable. Now, some commentators would not have picked up on that, she did. Is that an indication that she‘s biased and stupid? No, actually for me it shows that she knows her stuff. And the two of them did say that Sasha was making history. But there is the age old question of quads vs artistry and it‘s obvious that people right now are looking for an answer to that because Sasha has brought it up in the ladies field. Is it anything new that PCS rise once you land a few great quads? No. It‘s been like that in the men‘s field for ages, which they pointed out too. All fair.

Commentators are commentators, they‘re not judges. As long as they‘re not borderline unfair and mean (eg toilet break comment about Alina), they can and should voice their opinions.

I for one understand TSN commentators very well because I‘m of the same opinion. See, for me it‘s love and hate with Sasha. When I look at her, I see this tiny, cheerful girl who yet has more determination than most people will ever have in their entire lives. She‘s brave and gutsy and I admire her a lot for that. This doesn‘t change the fact that I almost hate what she‘s doing. I knew this transformation in the sport was inevitable and it was only a matter of time before it came up in the ladies field, too. But that doesn‘t mean I have to like it. I don’t like that focus on quads as the end all be all, I don‘t like how it looks like this sport will be transformed into a children‘s sport. Figure skating was already more for teenagers than adults, with most skaters retiring so early. I fear that quads will make that even worse. The rest is just subjective. I don‘t like the look of quads. I like Anna‘s programs much more without quads and I look at Sasha‘s and only see quads. Her FS is about GoT for example and while I don‘t know a whole lot about the character she‘s portraying, I don‘t get a sense of her portraying any character at all safe for the few seconds in the beginning and the end. The rest is just very impressive jumps. The artistry part of skating made me a fan and while I know technical progress is necessary in a sport, I feel like recently artistry has become only a mark that rises and falls with your popularity and the jumps you land. For me figure skating has much more to offer than jumps and while jumps are important, I only enjoy them when they’re made to look like as part of a seamless, coherent performance. So, I very well understand where these commentators are coming from. And I feel like many skating fans feel the same. I for one know that unless the rules change or I find a sudden inspirational love for quads either in the men‘s or the ladies‘, I will be over and done with this sport in a few years. Obviously there are people who feel differently and good for them, they should be thrilled at Sasha‘s success! I‘m thrilled for Sasha as a person as well, even though I‘m not thrilled for figure skating as a sport.

Now, I don‘t understand the hate Sasha is getting as she deserves none of it. She‘s an amazing girl and should be praised for her bravery. But it doesn‘t mean that there can‘t be commentators gently pointing out her flaws and maybe even flaws in the judging system.
 
lol Bonalys attemps were invalidated because they were not allowed, Trusova is totally different also she has no female idol, her idol is a man named Nathan Chen.

Errr...not sure where you get your skating history from but that is not why Surya never got a ratified quad, they certainly were allowed. Perhaps you're thinking off the awesome but definitely not allowed back flip she threw down at 98 Olympics?
 
Trusova's program look much better now than in her previous 2 outings. The first half actually has choreography now. Astounding when you consider she also landed a 4-1-3 and a 3-3Lo in the second half. Six years ago the only man doing a 3 quad program was Javi. Now even women are doing it. Imagine we could have been stuck with 6-triple layouts, zero transitions and the easiest spins including a parody of a layback ��.

I am replying to your comment because i find it really to the point ( and comments about commentators...i got bored of them over pages and pages , haha ). I also noticed that the first half has choreograph now !!! Having transitions and choreography between quads is really difficult and you dont see that always in men ( despite of them performing quads more years than women...). Watching Yuzus performance in the free programm, i somehow believe that Sasha is on the right path to make those quads to seem effortless and that we will not get bored for long preparations between them. And, honestly, i enjoyed her perfomance yesterday a lot ! The power from her quads and the skating skills between them gave me a feeling of fullfilment and pure joy about her being able for such technical content.
 
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