2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[mrrice]

Wow...….I just saw Alena's Free Skate from France. She's absolutely amazing and such a beautiful performer. Nationals is going to be awesome.

 

[Scott512]

I don't even want to watch the interview, but I'm worried Daria will fall into the trap.

I had the same feeling with Rodina and Nastyas interview. Rodina did lure Nastya in with questions about rivals and touching on sore spots in Nastya career and it worked.

She would be well-advised to avoid such public/media appearances, focus on her recovery from the injuries, and build a strategy for her comeback. Her jumps aren't muscled or reliant on low weight, she jumps from her legs, and she looked very promising a couple of seasons ago. Has she found a suitable coach? Tsareva is a dead-end road, I'm afraid. She was mostly self-coaching last year, like poor Shoma this season.

Dasha needs to leave Moscow and move to St. Petersburg and work with Nugumanovas coach who is doing wonders for her. Dasha may need to work with a man at this point in her career. . I hope she can make it back to a high-level but she must feel all alone and helpless.

 

[Scott512]

I love Mariah, she's my favorite US skater but she's been able to hang around the top because ladies figure skating in the US is not that deep - I believe last year she didn't attempt a 3-3. It's important to note with Mariah that she did not start competing on the senior circuit till she was 18, so she's not been on the circuit that long.



I don't think Zagitova has an issue with confidence in her own skating, quite the opposite at this point is my impression; she's been training along side Kostornaia/Trusova/Shcherbakova and knew what they were coming into the senior circuit with and she's not even backloading her combinations for the extra bonus points. From a TES perspective she's skating the weakest programs of her senior career in a time when her counterparts are increasing their difficulty; I don't think you do that if you don't have confidence in your skating. It will be interesting to see (assuming everyone's clean at Nationals) if she's given a spot to Europeans/Worlds over someone with more difficult content; additionally it will be interesting to see if she doesn't get a spot to Europeans/Worlds then what happens then with her competitive plans.

Actually it's great to see ladies developing the way Mariah and Bradie are later in their careers. That's why I hope some of the Russian girls Berry by the Federation at age 16 or 17 look at them as examples as to why they should stick it out and maybe become really good later in their late teens and early twenties.

 

[JazzUp]

I'm convinced that overall judging of Tutberidze girls was fair across events.

 

[Globetrotter]

Sorry, I cannot agree with the comparison. It was a very tricky situation last season. I also think that Liza was better than Zhenya at CoR and from the sports perspective she had to go the worlds. But it was a lose-lose situation. She had impressed the public with her "flight attendant routine" - it was all over media. But she immediately got pneumonia and had to miss Rusnats. I am sure that the way she had been progressing, the scores that she had received before pneumonia would have made her an obvious team member together with Alina. It did not happen and if after she missed half of the season she would go and Medvedeva would sit at home it would be also a scandal.

With Masha we talking about a GP event that she earned fair and square not cutting anyone.

I certainly am aligned with your reasoning. While I immensely disliked the RusFed's decision last year to set aside Liza Tuks for Zhenya, I do understand the rationale despite the former having overall better results in the 2018/19 season. The main issue that tripped Liza Tuks up was her bout of pneumonia so close to Worlds and the resultant hesitancy among the powers that be about whether she had recovered to her full potential pre-pneumonia. The federation's job is not to keep fans happy but to do whatever is needed to bring forward a team that can bring home as many medals as possible. Pretty sure that without the pneumonia, Liza Tuks will have been skating at Worlds 2019 but alas.

As for Masha, posters have basically said she should not go to the GP - look how badly she botched things up, not a single clean jump pass. Tl;dr = some posters felt she should not have been given this chance. Unfortunately, the rules are clear, Masha earned her spot based on the previous year's rules. I also did not like this decision but I have to respect that RusFed played by the rules and agreement. I am sure that next year, Masha will not be given this free pass, as she did not earn them this year (caveat: assuming the rules stay the same).

 

[Mishaminion]

What's so funny? 3 of them won their event with massive FS scores and 1 a silver?

I'm not sure how much better than that it could get but okay

 

[Globetrotter]

I'm convinced that overall judging of Tutberidze girls was fair across events. The only problem i had was that "e" call on Alina's Lz. The tech panel ignored the obvious UR on Alena's 3A in the free. Looks like they wanted to correct that UR call from her sp. If they really wanted to put Mariah in the second place they could ignore her UR on the Lz, like they did in the short
In most cases it was like that. If Rika doesn't get URs then Sasha gets none too, in the end it all evens out. And i thought Bradie at SA was quite good.

That unfortunately confuses people to hell. The 3A in SP was very borderline but when in doubt, they are to give the benefit to the skater according to the ISU's own guidance. If they had given it full credit but minus GOEs to -1 to -2 for the wonky less than stellar landing, that will make more sense. Conversely, I don't think anyone will be in an uproar if the first jump pass in the FS was called as 3A< + 2T - most of us could probably see with our naked eyes the rotation completed on the ice and the cloud of ice billowing up. As for the lutz edge calls, I generally don't have a problem even though the "e" call for Alina in the SP was IMO too harsh. Nobody will disagree if Alyona and her both get the !, since their lutz jumps were never really performed on strong outside edges at takeoff.

 

[Mishaminion]

With Alina and Alyona, they seemed to be harsher on their SP and a little bit more lenient on the FS.

Alyona probably should have got 3A<-2T

Alina's Loop combo, the loop was very very under, possibly enough for a downgrade, she landed almost forward and turned. Gutsy to go for it though.

 

[Tolstoj]

Exactly.



I think that's what makes serafimas SK result even more sad it's because she was actually in pretty good form leading into it.

We've been over this before she didn't even qualify for Russian Nationals last year she should not have gotten the Grand Prix spot. I can think of more than one girl a couple years younger than Serafima that could have gotten that oh so valuable Grand Prix event. so Serafima should have not received the Grand Prix event. Masha should not have received the Grand Prix event especially since she was in obviously deep decline. And Stasya as much as I like her and I do should have only received one Grand Prix event because she has bombed many events over the years. The Russian Federation is to blame for this and not the skaters. They have to start considering who they think there's a better chance to do well rather than on what someone did two seasons ago.

The youngerSt. Petersburg ladies cannot get better unless they get events. It's that simple. Right now all three Anastasia and Nugumanova are buried by the Russian Federation. Nugu has made great strides with her new coach.

The thing is you can't send a skater to an international GP event without some experience through senior Bs and other good results. Sure Tsibinova looked better than Sakhanovich, but who knows what could happen at an international event at her senior debut.

You may have another Polina Korobeynikova there: immediately sent to Worlds after a decent showing at Nationals and Europeans, completely bombed Worlds and her career basically ended there.

I don't think Sakhanovich should have been replaced because she earned that spot, she shows she can skate clean these programs, it just wasn't her day, looking at the other skaters, looking at the current situation in seniors, she still have chances to earn spots for challenger and GP events for the next seasons.

For the most part the process RusFed uses to select skaters for international events works fine, except for some inconsistency between scores in Russia and outside, often due to logics that don't apply abroad like competitions between clubs or between Moscow vs SPB, etc.

As of result you have like Konstantinova scoring always above 200 points at russian events, and never outside (literally only once at the Universiade last season and that was held in Russia).

Where i think the Federation could step in and replace skaters is whenever you see red flags: like in the case of Sotskova this wasn't her first complete meltdown, after the Ondrej Nepela Memorial they should have talked to her and her coach making it clear that either you work more seriously, or your spot gets assigned to someone else who is in better shape.

The same could have been said for Tsurskaya and Panenkova last season, the writing was on the wall there too after a couple of rough senior b and cup of russia events.

 

[Mishaminion]

It's been said before but Maria earned her GP spot by remaining high enough in the World Standings, despite her poor previous season. So she was rightfully given that place.
Current performance/better shape is not a a factor in getting and going to a GP.

I'm well aware the competition in Russia is incredibly crammed with talent and that many are missing out on chances, but others have earned theirs and have every right to use them.

Maria was 9th in WS as of April 2019

 

[BabySloth]

I'm a bit conflicted on this issue. On one hand, It would be nice to see skaters like Gubanova on the Grand Prix, and they might have done better than Maria did.
On the other hand, I feel like this is some kind of gesture towards the once prominent skaters to have a final Grand Prix assignment. I mean Maria was a World-class figure skater for two seasons, and she represented her country at the Olympic Games.

We might witness some currently prominent skaters in a similar situtation a few years from now given the rate Russian Ladies FS is progressing.
Maria had the oppurtunity to go, and she decised to take it. She is a human being, not a product which once stops working should be tossed away. I'm sure this competition meant a lot to her family, friends and fans.

 

[Scott512]

I certainly am aligned with your reasoning. While I immensely disliked the RusFed's decision last year to set aside Liza Tuks for Zhenya, I do understand the rationale despite the former having overall better results in the 2018/19 season. The main issue that tripped Liza Tuks up was her bout of pneumonia so close to Worlds and the resultant hesitancy among the powers that be about whether she had recovered to her full potential pre-pneumonia. The federation's job is not to keep fans happy but to do whatever is needed to bring forward a team that can bring home as many medals as possible. Pretty sure that without the pneumonia, Liza Tuks will have been skating at Worlds 2019 but alas.

As for Masha, posters have basically said she should not go to the GP - look how badly she botched things up, not a single clean jump pass. Tl;dr = some posters felt she should not have been given this chance. Unfortunately, the rules are clear, Masha earned her spot based on the previous year's rules. I also did not like this decision but I have to respect that RusFed played by the rules and agreement. I am sure that next year, Masha will not be given this free pass, as she did not earn them this year (caveat: assuming the rules stay the same).

Lizas bout of pneumonia was not close to the World championships. She got pneumonia in December and worlds was at the end of March.

Do you think these examples should inspire them? They have a different orientation.
Comparing 23-year-old Bell and 13-year-old Usacheva (we will not talk about Valieva ), they can come to other conclusions. For the extra 10 years in figure skating, Bell approached the level of a Junior https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=307&v=Vo9aBioHniA . Once in her entire career.
No, they have to find another motivation. I hope they come up with something.

Of course they should inspire the young Russians who are buried by the Federation like Nugumanova and the three Anastasias. Yes they have different orientations than the American girls and they have much tougher competition at all ages than the American girls too. But the point is the American girls are still improving at 23 and 21 years old. That is unusual in today's figure skating and hopefully will give some hope to the Russian girls on the outside looking in like the ones I mentioned. There are others too. But I can see how some girls just give up like Polina did at 17. I am concerned about Dasha too.

 

[Jontor]

I'm a bit conflicted on this issue. On one hand, It would be nice to see skaters like Gubanova on the Grand Prix, and they might have done better than Maria did.
On the other hand, I feel like this is some kind of gesture towards the once prominent skaters to have a final Grand Prix assignment. I mean Maria was a World-class figure skater for two seasons, and she represented her country at the Olympic Games.

We might witness some currently prominent skaters in a similar situtation a few years from now given the rate Russian Ladies FS is progressing.
Maria had the oppurtunity to go, and she decised to take it. She is a human being, not a product which once stops working should be tossed away. I'm sure this competition meant a lot to her family, friends and fans.

I'm conflicted too about this. I can understand that Maria got her GP spot, she was a world class skater. But that was two seasons ago. She bombed whole of last season and she was only 16th at Nationals.
RusFed had an unique situation this season. They had too many girls that were guaranteed GP spots so they had to choose which ones to give spots to, and unfortunately others didn't get any. How RusFed was thinking here is anyones guess. They chose Maria, although she was the one with the weakest SB of the girls involved. That decision was made in June. Pulling Maria out after Nepela wouldn't have changed anything, as there is no guarantee that her spot would have gone to another Russian Lady.
I worry for next year, as it seems the situation might be the same. Right now we have nine Russian Ladies in the SB list guaranteed GP spots and plus two on the WS list. That's eleven total and it's two too many.

 

[Mishaminion]

I'm conflicted too about this. I can understand that Maria got her GP spot, she was a world class skater. But that was two seasons ago. She bombed whole of last season and she was only 16th at Nationals.
RusFed had an unique situation this season. They had too many girls that were guaranteed GP spots so they had to choose which ones to give spots to, and unfortunately others didn't get any. How RusFed was thinking here is anyones guess. They chose Maria, although she was the one with the weakest SB of the girls involved. That decision was made in June. Pulling Maria out after Nepela wouldn't have changed anything, as there is no guarantee that her spot would have gone to another Russian Lady.
I worry for next year, as it seems the situation might be the same. Right now we have nine Russian Ladies in the SB list guaranteed GP spots and plus two on the WS list. That's eleven total and it's two too many.

But that is not how GP assignments even work!

If this was Europeans and Maria was removed from being a possibility for Worlds, then the "Rusfed should have removed her" would make sense.

Maria's World Standing even after a bad season was still good, in fact only two other Russians were higher, Alina and Evgenia.

I feel very sad for Maria, she clearly doesn't want to give up on her skating career but has hit rock bottom. Even worse, instead of encouraging her, many people are telling her to quit or that she should have been prevented from competing at her GP.

Her last chance to get any decent international assignments has probably now gone for good.

 

[Nord Stream 2]

Lizas bout of pneumonia was not close to the World championships. She got pneumonia in December and worlds was at the end of March.



Of course they should inspire the young Russians who are buried by the Federation like Nugumanova and the three Anastasias. Yes they have different orientations than the American girls and they have much tougher competition at all ages than the American girls too. But the point is the American girls are still improving at 23 and 21 years old. That is unusual in today's figure skating and hopefully will give some hope to the Russian girls on the outside looking in like the ones I mentioned. There are others too. But I can see how some girls just give up like Polina did at 17. I am concerned about Dasha too.

Please forgive me if my words seemed hurtful or impolite.
Maybe they should look at Alena. Alena is almost their age, they skated with her the last few years and did not consider themselves weaker. They read the Russian press about the fact that Alena is the weakest link among the 3A and will always be on the sidelines. That's what they're reading to themselves now.
It seems to me that this story is closer to them than the history of distant American women. By the way, I did not really understand what they have become more perfect this season. They skated without falling and it's all an improvement?
One more time... I wish Mariah and Brady all the best. I am very surprised and glad that they found motivation and added this season.

 

[Jontor]

But that is not how GP assignments even work!

If this was Europeans and Maria was removed from being a possibility for Worlds, then the "Rusfed should have removed her" would make sense.

Maria's World Standing even after a bad season was still good, in fact only two other Russians were higher, Alina and Evgenia.

I feel very sad for Maria, she clearly doesn't want to give up on her skating career but has hit rock bottom. Even worse, instead of encouraging her, many people are telling her to quit or that she should have been prevented from competing at her GP.

Her last chance to get any decent international assignments has probably now gone for good.

Of course this is how GP assignments work. It was RusFeds decision, on one else.
If all the ladies from Russia that were guaranteed was to get a GP assignment this season, you would have a situation where 6 Russian girls got two spots and 6 girls only one. This could have meant that the likes of Tuktamysheva, Shcherbakova, Trusova etc might have gotten only one GP assignment and had no chance for the GP Final. This is of course not in RusFeds interest, so they choose who to submit and to how many spots.

None of this is Sotskova's fault of course. I feel very sad for her too. But I question RusFeds decision. They didn't do Maria any favours by given her this GP spot with all the critique she is getting, and I can only imagine how the reaction is at home in Russia.

 

[Mishaminion]

Of course this is how GP assignments work. It was RusFeds decision, on one else.
If all the ladies from Russia that were guaranteed was to get a GP assignment this season, you would have a situation where 6 Russian girls got two spots and 6 girls only one. This could have meant that the likes of Tuktamysheva, Shcherbakova, Trusova etc might have gotten only one GP assignment and had no chance for the GP Final. This is of course not in RusFeds interest, so they choose who to submit and to how many spots.

None of this is Sotskova's fault of course. I feel very sad for her too. But I question RusFeds decision. They didn't do Maria any favours by given her this GP spot with all the critique she is getting, and I can only imagine how the reaction is at home in Russia.

Assignments are not made or lost based on current performances, they are based on WS or SB.

I Feel like I have to repeat myself to get it across...

Maria was 9th in World Standings when this season's assignments were made, this made her Third place amongst the Russians on that list.

It is true she had a rough season but was still ranked 9th in the World and 3rd Russian behind Alina and Evgenia. So why wouldn't RusFed choose her?

In hindsight we know her performance continued to decline into the new season, but at the time she recieved her assignment nobody knew that and she was given a chance.

Pulling a skater out of a GP they earned and were given would be horribly cruel and unfair, even more so than to not give other deserving skaters one in the first place.

 

[Jontor]

Assignments are not made or lost based on current performances, they are based on WS or SB.

I Feel like I have to repeat myself to get it across...

Maria was 9th in World Standings when this season's assignments were made, this made her Third place amongst the Russians on that list.

It is true she had a rough season but was still ranked 9th in the World and 3rd Russian behind Alina and Evgenia. So why wouldn't RusFed choose her?

In hindsight we know her performance continued to decline into the new season, but at the time she recieved her assignment nobody knew that and she was given a chance.

Pulling a skater out of a GP they earned and were given would be horribly cruel and unfair, even more so than to not give other deserving skaters one in the first place.

I too feel I have to repeat myself.

Yes, Maria was in the top 24 on the WS list, that quaranteed her a GP spot. That is according to ISU rules.

Also, the top 24 in the Seasons Best list are guaranteed a GP spot. That is also according to ISU rules.
http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2018-19/sbtslto.htm

Can you explain why the Russians at place 20 and 21 in the SB list didn't get any GP assignments?

 

[andromache]

I too feel I have to repeat myself.

Yes, Maria was in the top 24 on the WS list, that quaranteed her a GP spot. That is according to ISU rules.

Also, the top 24 in the Seasons Best list are guaranteed a GP spot. That is also according to ISU rules.
http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2018-19/sbtslto.htm

Can you explain why the Russians at place 20 and 21 in the SB list didn't get any GP assignments?

Tarusina and Kanysheva are both still juniors who were supposed to compete on the JGP, but they were/are both injured.

ETA: Sorry, missed Gubanova. Honestly, I think she was just snubbed by RusFed, unfortunately.

 

[Mishaminion]

I too feel I have to repeat myself.

Yes, Maria was in the top 24 on the WS list, that quaranteed her a GP spot. That is according to ISU rules.

Also, the top 24 in the Seasons Best list are guaranteed a GP spot. That is also according to ISU rules.
http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2018-19/sbtslto.htm


Can you explain why the Russians at place 20 and 21 in the SB list didn't get any GP assignments?

Juniors?

If not...

Too many skaters, not enough places to give them.

It's a tough situation, and impossible to be fair to everyone no matter what choices are made.

The assignment system was never designed for this situation, where one country would have so many skaters meeting the guarantee requirements.

Maria was probably chosen based on still being top 10 in WS with only 2 Russians higher than her. To me that sounds reasonable, given the circumstances.