2020-21 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

[noskates]

I don't think that was the reason either. I'm wondering if one of them was hurt or sick. And they might be a new pair but I personally think they will beat Tim and Ashley every time. It doesn't make sense to me that they would be held back by the USFS to prepare for next season. They earned the spot.......But, I guess we'll never know until they want us to.

 

[Olympic]

^ I don't know. As a fan of C/J, I felt bad that they WD, but I don't believe there was a skating injury involved because I would think something like that would be announced. It was either a personal issue or maybe an illness that one wishes to keep private.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

In fact, it's a compliment and encouragement to simply expect skaters to skate to the level they're capable of. It shows our vote of confidence in them: both K/F and C-G/L.

Many American fans seem very willing to give Alexa and Brandon the benefit of the doubt in this respect, but to write off Ashley and Tim too soon, in my opinion. If you look at what Ashley and Tim offer in comparison to what they offer plus their level of worlds and other international experience like Moore-Towers/Marinaro, Della-Monica/Guarise, and Ziegler/Kiefer, to name just a few -- and even counting Knierim/Frazier, who've both had more experience at World Championships with their previous partners than do Ashley and Tim -- there's plenty of room for encouragement and opportunity to get the nerves under control, etc.

Hi skylark, I'm just now back and see your post. I was away for awhile.

To be clear, I really enjoy Ash & Timothy -- they are one of my favorite teams. I was disappointed for them not being able to skate as strongly as they can in the fp at Worlds because this is a tough sport. There's very little room for nerves and mistakes. You have to take advantage of opportunities when they come. It's just a hard row to hoe when opportunities slip through your grasp. I say that because it has seemed as if U.S. fed lost a bit of faith in Ash/Timothy after overly setting them up to claim success on the GP in Fall 2019, and then they came up short. The outcome surely hurt their confidence as well. I've been impressed by Ash/Timothy's hard work and determination to keep striving. They did very well in the fp at U.S. Nationals after a slight bit of harsh judging in the sp where they faltered somewhat. So coming back strong like that was encouraging. I wish they'd been able to maintain that confidence. They have to work really hard to overcome the perception of weaknesses in some areas. Personally, I think they are excellent all-around, and they manage to overcome not having the strongest lifts. But when there are nerves and hesitancy, it can kind of make them seem not as strong a team as they really are.

Unfortunately, the sport's limiting competitive structure makes it difficult for everyone. There's a lot of depth across the board in the sport, but not enough opportunities to compete and improve. There's such a narrow window of opportunity for so many skaters. Understandably, U.S. fed wants to give up-and-coming younger skaters some chances to gain experience, and so there is going to be a push for Lu/Mitrofanov in particular. If as expected, Calalang/Johnson hold their own and improve their sbs jump consistency, then most likely there's a solid 1, 2 with K/F and C/J. This means that Ash/Timothy will be competing to stay ahead of Lu/Mitrofanov. If Ash/Timothy can solidify confidence and consistency, and get some really wonderful programs (which is more than half the battle), then they can realistically battle both L/M and maybe even C/J for a second spot next year.

All the top U.S. teams need to step up, and to be ready when the opportunities are presented. I am not cynical or dismissive like some fans toward U.S. pairs. It's a knee-jerk reaction to look down on U.S. pairs, and I don't think that's fair or justified, but I see it on some forums by some fans. So I hope all the U.S. teams can continue to push forward and push each other to be their best. At their best, they are highly competitive with the rest of the world.

 

[TontoK]

Disagree. This is risky and they don't have much time. We saw that clean they already beat C/L at Skate America. If they land their jumps i think they will be in the mix. I think the judges will start to drop C/J if they aren't a little more consistant

I don't know... the best skaters don't seem to maintain and wait for their competitors to falter - they up the ante.

In addition to the throw 4Lp practice, it looks as though they're adding a 3S-Eu-3S. Who knows if the throw is worth the risk, but the jump combo definitely is. It won't be enough to beat one of C/L or C/J if they are hoping to go to the Olympics - they have to beat both of them. I think we agree that the Fed might not have a problem putting them ahead of both of those teams if the situation merits it, but they have to give them a reason to do so.

I like their mindset and their attack, but I haven't really enjoyed their programs as much. The sneak of the new free is encouraging.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Speaking of age, someone mentioned that Jessica and Brian are a younger pair -- actually, Brian is Ashley's age, and Jessica is a year older. Also in terms of sheer number of years of pairs experience, Jessica's had 8 seasons of experience competing in senior pairs counting 2020-21, whereas Ashley's competed 5 seasons as a senior. So ... that's just a bit of a different angle to look at it from.

First off, Jessica is not a full year older than Brian. She's about 8 months older than him. So for about 4 months out of a year, they are the same age. Jessica (2/24/95); Brian (11/5/95). Jessica is currently 26, and Brian will turn 26 in November. Ashley C-G was born July 22, 1995, so she is currently 25. They are all three essentially the same age, and certainly could all stay in for another four years, which would be nice. The issue for Ash is that Timothy will be 31 on May 4. He seems fit and they both seem hungry, so it's very possible they both may decide to stay in for another four years as well. I also wonder about Ash's family plans. Certainly, she still has plenty of time for that, as she's about 4 years younger than Alexa (who also married, seems to be feeling the call of starting to think about planning a family).

For Alexa & Brandon, Alexa is currently 29 (6/10/91); Brandon is 28 (11/19/92). So they are the oldest U.S. team but both are slightly younger than Timothy LeDuc. Certainly, Brandon and Alexa could stay in another four years and get better and better. As I said, I get the sense that Alexa is hoping to start a family with Chris soon, so we'll see what happens for K/F on the ice. I hope they grow in confidence together and really fulfill how good they can be together.

 

[skylark]

For Alexa & Brandon, Alexa is currently 29 (6/10/91); Brandon is 28 (11/19/92). So they are the oldest U.S. team but both are slightly younger than Timothy LeDuc. Certainly, Brandon and Alexa could stay in another four years and get better and better. As I said, I get the sense that Alexa is hoping to start a family with Chris soon, so we'll see what happens for K/F on the ice. I hope they grow in confidence together and really fulfill how good they can be together.

I hope to see Alexa & Brandon, and also Ashley & Timothy keep competing another several years. I think that in itself would be good for US pairs. And it goes without saying for Jessica & Brian as well. For me, it's for sheer variety's sake, I really enjoy having such diverse styles represented by our pairs, with Audrey & Misha adding a fourth, and more with Emily & Spencer, Olivia & Mervin, and Katie & Nate ... it feels like an abundance of blessing and it's great for building depth.

Alexa said in one of those interviews -- I don't know if she was being playful, but she sounded like she was considering it as viable -- to Brandon something like, maybe after the Olympics I'll have a baby and then come back to competing. Brandon looked thoughtful. And then Alexa said, "Gordeeva did it." I had the idea when she first announced a new partner search that she was thinking through 2022, but with all the possibilities presented by her and Brandon having come together so strongly and quickly, she may be re-thinking it.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I hope to see Alexa & Brandon, and also Ashley & Timothy keep competing another several years. I think that in itself would be good for US pairs. And it goes without saying for Jessica & Brian as well. For me, it's for sheer variety's sake, I really enjoy having such diverse styles represented by our pairs, with Audrey & Misha adding a fourth, and more with Emily & Spencer, Olivia & Mervin, and Katie & Nate ... it feels like an abundance of blessing and it's great for building depth.

Yes, it would be nice if this happens. Still, the downside is that some of the younger up-and-coming teams will have a harder time getting competitive opportunities. That's what the sport needs to fix. Good skaters go wanting because of the antiquated competitive structure which hasn't kept up with the sport's depth of talent and competitiveness.

OTOH, it will be very good for the U.S. discipline for these veterans to continue improving and making an impact for U.S. pairs internationally. It could also give the younger teams more time to improve. But they need competitive opportunities to improve and to gain experience.

Alexa said in one of those interviews -- I don't know if she was being playful, but she sounded like she was considering it as viable -- to Brandon something like, maybe after the Olympics I'll have a baby and then come back to competing. Brandon looked thoughtful. And then Alexa said, "Gordeeva did it." I had the idea when she first announced a new partner search that she was thinking through 2022, but with all the possibilities presented by her and Brandon having come together so strongly and quickly, she may be re-thinking it.

Where did you see this interview? Are there links to interviews somewhere?

If Alexa has the passion, she might be able to do this. But it's extremely hard to fit childbirth into a viable competitive career at this level. Gordeeva skated during a different era. G/G actually took time off, had a baby and skated in shows, and then they came back for the 1994 Olympics. Another thing is the rep stature G/G had. Plus, the professional opportunities that existed in their time to continue keeping their skills honed. There is a dearth of pro competitions and a lack of substantial shows existing today.

 

[skylark]

Yes, it would be nice if this happens. Still, the downside is that some of the younger up-and-coming teams will have a harder time getting competitive opportunities. That's what the sport needs to fix. Good skaters go wanting because of the antiquated competitive structure which hasn't kept up with the sport's depth of talent and competitiveness.

OTOH, it will be very good for the U.S. discipline for these veterans to continue improving and making an impact for U.S. pairs internationally. It could also give the younger teams more time to improve. But they need competitive opportunities to improve and to gain experience.

Yes, I was thinking about your latter point, that it's good for US pairs program internationally. But I was forgetting about the younger pairs coming up! which is also a very good point.

Where did you see this interview? Are there links to interviews somewhere?

If Alexa has the passion, she might be able to do this. But it's extremely hard to fit childbirth into a viable competitive career at this level. Gordeeva skated during a different era. G/G actually took time off and skated in shows, and then they came back for the 1994 Olympics. Another thing is the rep stature G/G had. Plus, the professional opportunities that existed in their time to continue keeping their skills honed. There is a dearth of pro competitions and a lack of substantial shows existing today.

My first thought when she mentioned Gordeeva doing it was that Gordeeva was only 21 years old when she had Daria. She bounced back, and furthermore Katia's mother took care of the baby whenever she was needed. On the other hand, it's possible Alexa could have a similar family arrangement, and she's in excellent shape. I only mentioned Katia being 21 because I always think about a friend of mine saying about Sarah Hughes' fabulous 2002 skating, "I don't care who you are, your body can do things at age 16 that it can't later." Really, though, that's being disproven these days. I think Alexa's even more ambitious and appreciative of her skating career because of her life-threatening illness back in 2016.

The interview where Alexa said that was linked in this thread. I'll try to find it for you. It might have been the interview with Masha? I know it was a video, not a print interview.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I thought Alexa made a reference to wanting to start a family in the Masha interview. But I don't think she said anything in that interview about having a baby and coming back. Maybe she did as a joke. I don't recall her exact words, but it wasn't explicitly stated.

I'm just now watching some of the WTT events. Too bad Alexa & Brandon didn't seize an opportunity in this small field to make a better impression. I don't think they should have been behind the young Japanese team Miura/Kihara in the sp M/K were lovely and they are very competitive, but both teams had a fall in the sp. I guess the judges liked M/K's program slightly better, and they were skating in Japan too. I don't think M/K have the same level of quality skill on all their elements as Alexa/Brandon. At this point, Alexa/Brandon really need to assert some confidence and show more grit and determination, not tentativeness. That will not get you where you need to be with the judges.

I think that Alexa/Brandon could have been second in the sp had they skated clean and with greater confidence. Even the top-rated Russians M/G (the new World champions), had a mistake in the sp with the 2-salchow error. The judges will slight an unproven team until they prove consistency and gain rep.

 

[skylark]

I thought Alexa made a reference to wanting to start a family in the Masha interview. But I don't think she said anything in that interview about having a baby and coming back. Maybe she did as a joke. I don't recall her exact words, but it wasn't explicitly stated.

I'm thinking that's where it was, but I haven't had time to re-watch and tell you for sure. Right now I'm being summoned to watch an episode. Maybe I'll have a chance tomorrow.

 

[coldblueeyes]

I'm just now watching some of the WTT events. Too bad Alexa & Brandon didn't seize an opportunity in this small field to make a better impression. I don't think they should have been behind the young Japanese team Miura/Kihara in the sp M/K were lovely and they are very competitive, but both teams had a fall in the sp. I guess the judges liked M/K's program slightly better, and they were skating in Japan too. I don't think M/K have the same level of quality skill on all their elements as Alexa/Brandon. At this point, Alexa/Brandon really need to assert some confidence and show more grit and determination, not tentativeness. That will not get you where you need to be with the judges.

I think that Alexa/Brandon could have been second in the sp had they skated clean and with greater confidence. Even the top-rated Russians M/G (the new World champions), had a mistake in the sp with the 2-salchow error. The judges will slight an unproven team until they prove consistency and gain rep.

Regarding the SP, they had falls in different elements, and lost levels here and there. My impression of them, however, is that Alexa and Brandon still skate like a new pair, which means a lot of side-by-side skating and less pair skating, and that causes an impression in the judges. The program I think didn't really help either, the song is not bad but kind of fell a bit short compared to Hallelujah, especially when the japanese came later than them.

They have a potential like no other American team, especially in the GOE department, but we'll have to see how to deal with actually delivering going forward. But that's been the crux for all American teams since ever. They almost never deliver internationally, there's this big moment at Nationals, and then they get to Worlds and it's never there again (again, my history of the American teams is not that deep, but I just never remember them outside of USNats)

Without that mistake they would have been second, for sure. The judges might have even bumped them into the 70s. But it's still short from the Russians, who also had a mistake. Still if you take a look at them, you'll see where their PCS come from. Better yet, compare with M/K, who even when skating side-by-side have more connection than K/F.

 

[SkateTM0102]

I hope to see Alexa & Brandon, and also Ashley & Timothy keep competing another several years. I think that in itself would be good for US pairs. And it goes without saying for Jessica & Brian as well. For me, it's for sheer variety's sake, I really enjoy having such diverse styles represented by our pairs, with Audrey & Misha adding a fourth, and more with Emily & Spencer, Olivia & Mervin, and Katie & Nate ... it feels like an abundance of blessing and it's great for building depth.

Alexa said in one of those interviews -- I don't know if she was being playful, but she sounded like she was considering it as viable -- to Brandon something like, maybe after the Olympics I'll have a baby and then come back to competing. Brandon looked thoughtful. And then Alexa said, "Gordeeva did it." I had the idea when she first announced a new partner search that she was thinking through 2022, but with all the possibilities presented by her and Brandon having come together so strongly and quickly, she may be re-thinking it.

I also hope that Alexa & Brandon stay a few more years at least. My uninformed opinion (just listening to interviews and following their social media) is that when they paired up the goal was to go to the Olympics and then be done. Then the pandemic hit and they couldn’t compete as much and they found themselves not only at the top of US Pairs this year but scoring about the same internationally as their (or atleast her) previous partnerships. And all of a sudden, I could imagine them thinking, maybe we stick around a while longer and see how far we can go (especially because most teams don’t hit their peak 2 years into a partnership, even S/M took I think 4 years). My guess would be if they continue to improve and there are no major injuries/setbacks, they will continue to compete after the 2022 Olympics. But if next year doesn’t go well, or future seasons if they decide to stick around, they may just decide to be done and let Alexa have those babies. If they are challenging for medals, I imagine it would be a lot easier to stick around then coming in 7/8/9/10 at World’s.
They both are in great shape and seem younger (In a good way) than their actual ages. They also seem to have a drive and really love to compete, which I didn’t always feel with their past partnerships. I guess time will tell...

 

[TontoK]

Regarding ladies having babies and returning to pairs skating... there is precedent other than Gordeeva.

Irina Rodnina took a year off to have a baby at age 29 (I think) and won her third Olympic gold the very next year.

The physical demands of the sport are different than they were in 1980, but Irina was no slouch. Neither, I suspect is Alexa. She can return if she wants to.

 

[moonvine]

I know she no longer represents the US, but does Deanna Stellato have children? Her stated plan is to continue until 2026.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I just watched the fp at WTT. Like I said earlier, in this small field, I felt K/F could have been in second after the sp, even pushing the Russian team, if K/F gain more confidence together. K/F already have loads of talent just flowing off of them. But they have to believe and they have to figure out performing at a high level under pressure. They've made enormous progress in a single season, which is nothing to sneeze at, but they still need to be cognizant of where they falter and why. Again, silly mistakes or miscues by Alexa, or something in the way she was thrown causing her to make an awkward landing on the second throw. She fell on the throw in the sp. And all really are silly mistakes, because she has the ability to land everything beautifully. They need to find their comfort zone and their confidence.

I understand not getting down on them because they had enough quality to score well in the fp even with those two rather unnecessary bobbles. It seems they need to balance out nerves or excitement or fear about suddenly seeing their dreams within reach. Sometimes that can be daunting. There are so many things to think about in this sport. K/F have amazing talent together. Now they need to work on the pressure aspect and on fine-tuning and trusting in each other. And they need to get dynamite programs that work well and have an impact. Choosing the right music and choreo is extremely important. It just makes it easier to skate when the choreo and music fit wonderfully well and kind of help skaters ace performances. I've been thinking about what might work for K/F. A general theme I thought of was something around athleticism. There are some songs with lyrics that are about overcoming competitive challenges and reaching victory. I don't know -- just something uplifting. They aren't a romantic team, but there are so many other kinds of themes to explore that are about expressing a connection which doesn't have to be romantic.

I wish K/F well. They really need to believe in themselves and know that 'sky's the limit!'

One thing I noticed is that the judges held back slightly on giving K/F the GOE they deserved on several elements, e.g., on their twist only 1.50, while Miura/Kihara got 1.60 on their 3-twist. K/F's 3-twist is no way lesser quality than M/K's. M/K were skating in Japan, so maybe that's one reason why the judges were rather generous. I thought K/F should have edged M/K in the sp, not get placed behind by percentage points. Anyway K/F prevailed for second over M/K, and also over the Italian team D-M/G, who had their problems.

What K/F should realize is that with a clean skate, they could have been around 73 - 74, easily.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I know she no longer represents the US, but does Deanna Stellato have children? Her stated plan is to continue until 2026.

No, I don't think Deanna ever had children. She had a successful career as an esthetician. I imagine she's still married, but she doesn't seem to use her married name anymore. Plus, I would think since she's training in Canada that she and her husband are separated by distance, unless he's moved to Canada too. Otherwise, it would seem to be a huge sacrifice. But maybe she has a loving, understanding husband. She has a right to her privacy.

I truly would love to see Deanna flourish with Maxime competitively. I think Deanna/Maxime can be competitive with Walsh/Michaud for the second spot for Canada. However, Deanna still has to work on getting her release and becoming a Canadian citizen.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

still skate like a new pair, which means a lot of side-by-side skating and less pair skating, and that causes an impression in the judges. The program I think didn't really help either, the song is not bad but kind of fell a bit short compared to Hallelujah, especially when the japanese came later than them.

Yeah, that's an interesting observation. I would agree with you to the extent that K/F are still learning each other's rhythms and tendencies. It is easy to forget how hard it is to skate with a new partner, no matter how comfortable you are with each other personally. The physical and mental aspect takes time to develop. That's why their rapid progress in a first season is notable and remarkable. But I'm sure that has a lot to do with their veteran pairs experience, and their friendship (also Chris' friendship with Brandon in their younger pairs days in Colorado). The impression the judges have of K/F, I think is the noticeable slight hesitancy because they are still learning each other. That's why the music choice and the choreo choice are perhaps not very complex, because new teams need something more simple and straightforward to skate to while they are gaining a comfort level with each other.

At the same time, K/F's talent is obvious and compelling. They just have to believe in themselves and skate with a lot more confidence!

I also agree that Hallelujah is a very compelling musical choice for the right team. The former Stellato/Bartholomay used it to great effect in their first season. The selection suits Miura/Kihara very well. They also match well and seem to communicate well. In addition, great choreography, I believe by Julie Marcotte.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Regarding ladies having babies and returning to pairs skating... there is precedent other than Gordeeva.

Irina Rodnina took a year off to have a baby at age 29 (I think) and won her third Olympic gold the very next year.

The physical demands of the sport are different than they were in 1980, but Irina was no slouch. Neither, I suspect is Alexa. She can return if she wants to.

Certainly it isn't impossible for Alexa to have a baby and then come back to pairs skating. But timing is key in the current competitive environment. Alexa has a new partner that she has to work with extensively. So now certainly isn't the time. If K/F place 4th or so at the 2022 Olympics, it's important to bear down if they want to pursue 2026. Or maybe establish themselves through 2022 - 2023, and then Alexa/Chris could try for a baby in the 2023 off-season, which would mean K/F losing 2023-2024 season. Maybe if Alexa conceives in Spring 2023 and gives birth by January/February 2024, she could bear down and work hard to come back strong in 2024-2025. That would seem the best avenue if she intends to have a baby prior to retiring.

For sure, the physical demands of pairs skating are much greater today than in the 1970s! It might be advisable to decide about concentrating on one dream at a time. But maybe if Alexa/ Brandon are able to establish some rep by 2022 - 2023, then perhaps Alexa could contemplate a year off to have a baby with husband, Chris. Still, there's no guarantee how that would all work out.

 

[coldblueeyes]

At the moment, it’s not like there are tons of pairs in the US pushing them to retire, so it wouldn’t be impossible to take a season off after the olympics for a kid and then come back. But it’s kind of hard to make a plan to return when you don’t know how your technique is going to hold up. Especially when it’s not really giving you any clear advantage now over the field.

Elena Bechke said something super interesting, that Tamara also mentioned regarding pairs, is that we hit a ceiling in this quad and all the pairs are kind of moving up and down in the same space because all of them have comparing difficulty, and there will come a point when something more will be required to win. At the moment that something is a third triple jump in the FS, and we’re seeing a lot more younger teams learning one.

Other than that, we kind of will have a vacuum in the next quad because I’m pretty sure S/H will be done, and who knows who else from the top? There will be space for another country to come to the podium, and if things line up for any team, skating the post Olympic season could be the opportunity of a career.

 

[skylark]

Better yet, compare with M/K, who even when skating side-by-side have more connection than K/F.

^^ This. I was really impressed with M/K's development in this area. They have just a beautiful way of looking at each other during both their skates. That really draws an audience in and puts them on their side.