What skating "used to be"

[Minz]

During the past couple of seasons we've seen great strides in the sport of figure skating - particularly in terms of technical and jump content. These feats are pushing the envelope of human limitation. However, this has lead to a lot of criticism and I've heard many people say that skating "isn't what it used to be"


But what does that mean for you? And why? What makes those days so special?

Is it the days of the 6.0 system, the great skating skills of Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen or, maybe you're a newer fan and these recent strides are all you've seen from this sport?

 

[el henry]

I don't know that I miss what skating "used to be". (Although I have seen that comment, for sure). I love some skaters from the past, I love some skaters now.

My concern is that we have equal respect for the blade to ice skills that make skating, well, skating. I don't watch skating only to see revolutions in the air, and I don't consider revolutions in the air to be the only definition of progress or of technical skill. Sooooo many other factors are equally athletic, equally indicative of progress, equally pushing the envelope.

Whatever system promotes that equal respect, whether then or now, is a good system in my eyes.

 

[skylark]

But what does that mean for you? And why? What makes those days so special?

For me, the Glory Days of figure skating were when it was generally acknowledged, and valued, that the sport involved performance, emotion and artistry, as well as incredible athleticism. And the second mark (artistic interpretation) was the tie-breaker, so if you wanted to be the best, you developed artistry. But you had to have the technical, you had to keep up.

The great thing is that that kind of skating still exists. People still believe in it, and many skaters still aspire to it. I would argue that all the micro-adjustments to the COP rules over the years happen because people (ISU) want the judging to reflect it. To reflect what? The It Factor.

The best skating programs, for me, are when skaters demonstrate technical prowess, but the techniques serve the emotion, the musical moods, and the connection with the audience. I'm not arguing whether it's revolutions in the air vs. spins, steps and edges. All the tricks and skills serve the performance. The jumps, spins, and steps are planned to express the music and emotion, not the other way around.

Nina Mozer said fairly recently that many skaters see a program as performing elements, with some skating in between -- when it should be the opposite. I agree. Elena Bechke said last month that a program needs to have wholeness and be an entity. (She made a circle with her hand.) She may have said like a poem, or I might have supplied that word. A poem, a song, a story, a feeling.

Something complete unto itself in which the skaters express that something. It can be anything, as long as the skaters mean what they're expressing and it comes from the inside out. They revel in the jumps and other athletic tricks, but it's all connected by what lies underneath: the unspoken, the emotion, the movement, the heart and soul. The impulse behind the desire to skate.

 

[ladyjane]

For me the important thing is that Figure Skating is an integral whole of technical prowess (or if you like: athleticism) and artistry. I don't know if there was more of that in the 'good old days' or now. Whenever there is too much focus on jumping skills and too little on the complete package - while technical prowess is more than jumps. I like to see real skating skills, not a kind of running from jump to jump. I like to see some real gliding, good spinning and I wish to be moved by the whole. There examples of this now as there were in the past. There are so-called iconic skates now just as well. But you won't ever see me watching a jumping contest!

 

[lappo]

Unpopular opinion, but on average I like figure skating more now than in the past (with a few exceptions): whenever I watch an old program the super long setups into jumps really bother me so I really prefer programs with more (but purposeful) transitions. Maybe because I grew up in the IJS system and this is "my" skating, the one I watched since youth and I cheered on...

 

[florin]

Unpopular opinion, but on average I like figure skating more now than in the past (with a few exceptions): whenever I watch an old program the super long setups into jumps really bother me so I really prefer programs with more (but purposeful) transitions. Maybe because I grew up in the IJS system and this is "my" skating, the one I watched since youth and I cheered on...

What do you mean, "unpopular"? I'm pretty sure most fans think the same way. Old programs may be liked for nostalgic reasons. But the attitude to them is about like the old masterpieces of cinema - you love/respect them, but with the edge of your rational consciousness you see how poorly done everything is.

 

[MiraiFan]

I appreciate nice extension in skating, but wish the current system wouldn't encourage extreme flexibility. It's skating, not contortion.

 

[lappo]

What do you mean, "unpopular"? I'm pretty sure most fans think the same way. Old programs may be liked for nostalgic reasons. But the attitude to them is about like the old masterpieces of cinema - you love/respect them, but with the edge of your rational consciousness you see how poorly done everything is.

Maybe I got it wrong, but it seems to me that several people tend to like the old system better because the less complex elements meant that the skaters had more mastery of the skating aspects. I do understand this point of view, I just have a different taste and in general I tend to like more the programs made under the IJS, not because of the jumps in itself but because of the structure of the program which is not composed in large part of setups into the jumps.

 

[mrrice]

Personally, I think skating is much better now ( For the most part ) I definitely think the scoring system is more difficult to understand. However, I'm glad the days of Trixie Schuba beating Janet Lynn based on her huge lead from figures, are over. Figures were rarely televised and difficult to follow when they were. I think skating is more exciting now, especially for the US Men. Back in the day, The US and Swiss skaters were dominant. Then Katt came on the scene and rocked it.

 

[yuumagical]

To shift the conversation slightly: I wonder if those who prefer what skating used to be prefer the aesthetic and expressive choices popular at the time. Most skaters couldn't skate to vocal music until after the Sochi Olympics in 2014, and while I was worried about its effects on skating at the time, I have grown to embrace how it has really opened up skating to styles of music other than Western classical music.

In addition, it seems like women in particular have been freer in recent times to explore a wider variety of characters and themes than merely girly, frilly, feminine roles (though I am admittedly no expert on women's skating). For instance, it would have been impossible for Ivett Toth to skate to AC-DC in earlier times!

In conclusion, I suspect maybe music choices and gender roles are a factor in considering what skating used to be vs. how it is today.

 

[gliese]

I think a lot of skating now looks awful. A lot of skating in 1980 also looked awful. I think a lot of people who wish skating was what it used to be often only think of their favorites from those times because that's what they remember best.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I think we still see great skating. Satoko Miyahara's best programs, to me, are better than anything we saw under 6.0. I also think Alena K., Rika, Anna, and Kamila are great, but their programs can be hit-or-miss. While I think a lot of winning programs have choreography that is too busy and not related enough to the music, a lot of the old programs I used to like look empty to me now. I like the choice of breaking up crossover sequences with turns instead of doing seven or eight into a jump, but I'm not particularly fond of some of the jump entries and exits that show off flexibility but don't relate to the music.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Singles skating used to be holding your breath at a second triple lutz or triple axel. Or a "comeback" skate (like Midori Ito's 1992 LP). These days, the top skaters perform difficult elements with so much ease that it's hardly "impressive" (and I say that in the most complimentary way). Women's skating is more flexibility focused; men's skating has evolved nicely I think where skaters are less rigid robots stroking around into tough jumps and I find the men actually have more distinctive styles and are more expressive with their arms/upper body and less "macho").

Pairs I associated with "sameness" or unison (and nailing the SBS jumps and you pretty much win), and ice dance I associated with the best "acting"/"theatrics". But that's certainly changed these days where pairs still can perform as one without mimicking each other so much and ice dance really has evolved into more of a sport with the intricate lifts and other elements integrated into performances and IMO is much more watchable.

I also associate what skating "used to be" as a LOT of stroking but with difficult highlights thrown in but a lot of power skating and telegraphing. As an adult I'm far more conscientious of transitions and interesting jump/spin positions and whatnot, and I wish I could tell my younger self to incorporate more interesting positions and transitions into my programs - but such was the state of skating at the time.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

I would like it if they increased program lengths by 30seconds again (and maybe added a second choreographic element).

Back in the "olden days" the greats performed memorable and artistic programs. However, by today's standards when you look at the skating itself, its actually quite simplistic. Even back to programs in early 2000's the choreography is basic, with lots of two foot choreo, standing still choreography and simplistic edges with a few arms. For me, it was artistic in a different way, but compared to modern skating - well; there is no comparison for me. Even some of the worst skaters have more complicated artistry (maybe not as naturally artistic and feeling the music like Yagudin, but in terms of how the programs are constructed).

In reality 2004-2005 was when I felt artistry was picking up across the board, and then flourished from 2010.

 

[TontoK]

I think it depends on the discipline. Ice dance is WAY better now than it used to be, on the whole. Some pre-IJS programs were great, but there weren't a lot of those, considering.

Even after all these years, I've only recently enjoyed pairs again. IJS nearly ruined that discipline. Lord, those early IJS programs were duds. Almost unwatchable.

Men - it's a mixed bag. I enjoy skaters and programs from every era, and switch back and forth depending on the mood.

I haven't rewatched a woman's program in decades. Wait that's clumsy - I haven't watched a program skated in the last decades more than once. When I unwind with some ladies programs, it's always pre-IJS.

 

[ladyjane]

I think it depends on the discipline. Ice dance is WAY better now than it used to be, on the whole. Some pre-IJS programs were great, but there weren't a lot of those, considering.

Even after all these years, I've only recently enjoyed pairs again. IJS nearly ruined that discipline. Lord, those early IJS programs were duds. Almost unwatchable.

Men - it's a mixed bag. I enjoy skaters and programs from every era, and switch back and forth depending on the mood.

I haven't rewatched a woman's program in decades. Wait that's clumsy - I haven't watched a program skated in the last decades more than once. When I unwind with some ladies programs, it's always pre-IJS.

I love your honesty @TontoK . I don't agree with everything you say (I have always loved pairs and will probably still do until the end of time) as there are many pairs programmes I enjoy - although Aljona and Bruno were and are the ultimate highlight. But I loved so many of them in earlier times as well. But I don't think IJS ruined the discipline. Changed it, maybe. With regard to the men, they are - aside from pairs - my favourite discipline. The variety! Just like you, I think the whole era - 6.0 and IJS - is fascinating. I'm not talking about whether PCS should get more points and such, just about what you get to see. Dance definitely is better nowadays, although there were also good examples in the past (but also a lot of sh**t). And women? Well it wasn't my favourite then, nor is it now. But there are always good examples. Before IJS and after.

 

[TontoK]

I love your honesty @TontoK . I don't agree with everything you say (I have always loved pairs and will probably still do until the end of time) as there are many pairs programmes I enjoy - although Aljona and Bruno were and are the ultimate highlight. But I loved so many of them in earlier times as well. But I don't think IJS ruined the discipline. Changed it, maybe. With regard to the men, they are - aside from pairs - my favourite discipline. The variety! Just like you, I think the whole era - 6.0 and IJS - is fascinating. I'm not talking about whether PCS should get more points and such, just about what you get to see. Dance definitely is better nowadays, although there were also good examples in the past (but also a lot of sh**t). And women? Well it wasn't my favourite then, nor is it now. But there are always good examples. Before IJS and after.

That is a sweet thing to say! But, really, if you can't be honest in an opinion thread, there's no point in participating.

I also love reading a variety of opinions. I may not agree, but it's interesting to see different perspectives.

Sometimes I'm convinced to rethink my positions. If you recommend a circa-2010 pairs program that you think I'd enjoy, I'll give it another chance. For reference, some of my favorite pairs are Protopopovs (delicate quality and innovation), Rodnina/Zaitsev (power and fearlessness), Tai and Randy (positions and line), G&G mod 1 (sweetness and light) and G&G mod 2 (passion and romance).

 

[ladyjane]

Giggle. My favourite is M&D's Rachmaninov FS in 1994 ....those steps (well, after S/M in 2018, because these two are my ultimate favourites).

 

[el henry]

Yes, the one discipline that is provably, absolutely better now is ice dance.

But in my opinion that has little to do with IJS, and everything to do with T&D's Bolero. For younger posters, if you've never seen a 70's ice dance program, as gifted as some of those athletes were, it might be difficult to understand the impact of Bolero. Three cheesy cuts of unrelated music have (almost ) disappeared as a result.

And nothing to do with revolutions in the air

 

[anonymoose_au]

I don't mind the quad revolution for ladies or any of that, but man, step sequences are on the whole disappointing these days.

Like I didn't follow skating closely until 2014 (it would have been a bit hard to do in Aus before the internet got faster), but I've watched a lot of old programs on YouTube and man step sequences used to be a real highlight! Now, at least to me, most of the time you can hardly tell they're happening until the skater is half way through. Then there's the levels which I can't figure out for the life of me, like pretty much every one I like gets a level 2 and I don't even know why...

I wonder if Dick Button is pleased with step sequences these days? He hated two footed skating with a passion - at least that's the impression I got from my YouTube watching. So is he cheering at all the "Look Ma! I can skate the whole rink on one foot!"?