Is Grand Prix series ready to downsize to 5 events?

[moonvine]

THIS

There is always a weird shift happening at the beginning of the pre-Olympic season.
There is another one happening after the games, for different reasons...

Also, when it comes to GP, hosts have an impact in some way. Right now, GPdeF couldn't really bring depth in women because their host spots are weaker than the average of the field, same with their pairs... but their lower level ranked dance teams were wonderful to watch, so were Luc and François.
It always has to do with seeds and the rest of the field. For instance, Canada had "home" two seeds in dance and the rest of the field was stellar. SKAM had the worst dance event so far (IMHO) but they also brought very exciting pairs and men events. I suspect NHK will be thrilling to watch for singles. By the time we get to China, the maths will be in full force about qualification so the event will be exciting anyway.

If anything, I'd like 8 GPs and a GPF with more qualified skaters. 12 in singles, 10 in dance and 8 in pairs.

Fantastic ideas. I am behind them 100%.

 

[Karoltyna]

Despite the disappointing skates from some of the favorites, I watched the award ceremonies in France and they were filled with mostly smiling faces (with one exception and I honestly understand how hard a happy face would've been to display at that time). The failure of some leads to opportunity for another. What if that one happy face is never again able to achieve another medal due to illness or injury. Celebrate the winners, they won fair and square. If you underachieved, then get your protocols, come up with a plan to work on your deficiencies, get to work and show us your improvement at your next opportunity. That is how a judged event is supposed to work.

I wasn't able to watch, who wasn't smiling?

 

[DemTuppesSeine]

I wasn't able to watch, who wasn't smiling?

Guignard/Fabbri probably. I didn't watch either, but I can't imagine they were really happy, also considering what I read on X from people who were there

 

[labgoat]

I wasn't able to watch, who wasn't smiling?

The normally lovely Charlene & Marco were bitterly disappointed with their own skate and placement. As they said later, that was the worst skate of their career. I sympathize with their immediate feelings and know they are strong, lovely people and competitors and that this was one bad skate to forget out of a career of fine performances. I hope they have a good cry on the way home, take a deep breath and choose to not let this one performance define their season.

 

[labgoat]

The normally lovely Charlene & Marco were bitterly disappointed with their own skate and placement. As they said later, that was the worst skate of their career. I sympathize with their immediate feelings and know they are strong, lovely people and competitors and that this was one bad skate to forget out of a career of fine performances. I hope they have a good cry on the way home, take a deep breath and choose to not let this one performance define their season.

If it was me, I'd say - well that happened - lets get on with it, onwards and upwards.

 

[Karoltyna]

The normally lovely Charlene & Marco were bitterly disappointed with their own skate and placement. As they said later, that was the worst skate of their career. I sympathize with their immediate feelings and know they are strong, lovely people and competitors and that this was one bad skate to forget out of a career of fine performances. I hope they have a good cry on the way home, take a deep breath and choose to not let this one performance define their season.

Ah yes, they had rough skate and it wasn't only the fall.

 

[lariko]

I don't quite see this rift. What I see is what has always been there - one group of contenders and another group of skaters simply gaining experience at this level. Intermixed are skaters recovering from injuries, established skaters who put in the work and the time to keep up with the field, others slowly losing ground to other competitors and new budding stars that both exceed and underperform at times. It is a pre-Olympic season and the judges are starting to be more particular in how they align their skaters rankings to make sure the best and most reliable skaters are rewarded. Everyone gets a fresh look and rankings are adjusted.

Yes, and the last season it was put on transitional period, and the season before last--on it being post Olympic season. I have been waiting for things to pick up since 2022... So, only the next season is going to be good?

Imo, it's a really low bar when you start collecting good enough discipline performances across the whole GP span... yes, injuries, yes, bad days, but the whole field, like 10/12 or 11/12 delivering something rather pale? The reason for joy being that women who performed far better 6 years ago medalling or not completely bombing now? Men skating like Russian men used to, save for the sign of the holy life-giving cross before going on ice? At the time when music and communication expand exponetially from year to year, getting stuff on repeat in disciplines that are not obliged to select anything specific? What on Earth is this?

I totally see the rift.

 

[TallyT]

Personally I found all three so far predictable duds for the most part, and cheap and tatty-looking as well for what should be showcases of our supposedly best and brightest. (And before that argument starts, so have been all the Russian offerings I've caught, full of dull faceless nobodies). However, I don't see think dropping the number of stops is at all a good idea though it may happen if they can't get places to take them, of course. I wish they would increase the number of skaters in each one.

Every sport has low times. The JGP were both way more interesting and, despite low audience turnout, looked like far more care and interest (and yes, money) had been put into them. They give me hope.

 

[rabidline]

I'm curious, what year/season of GP series in the past that you deem to have enough quality @lariko ? Just want to know how far we are to your perceived standards.

 

[lariko]

I'm curious, what year/season of GP series in the past that you deem to have enough quality @lariko ? Just want to know how far we are to your perceived standards.

2019! It was amazing.

 

[rabidline]

2019!

I see. Thanks! It was a particularly good season for those in the top, if not particularly sustainable. Cracks were already showing back then. But I do miss the Russian pairs a lot.

 

[lariko]

I see. Thanks! It was a particularly good season for those in the top, if not particularly sustainable. Cracks were already showing back then. But I do miss the Russian pairs a lot.

Post-pandemic one wasn't that bad either, when they allowed the public in. I dunno, I started watching from 2018 and it all looked in a great shape back then. There is just not enough athlets at the moment to build 6 events and allow for time off competitions etc imo.

 

[gkelly]

Next year there will be more "new blood" especially in the women's event

 

[rabidline]

Post-pandemic one wasn't that bad either, when they allowed the public in. I dunno, I started watching from 2018 and it all looked in a great shape back then. There is just not enough athlets at the moment to build 6 events and allow for time off competitions etc imo.

Yeah, I'm not trying poke holes into your opinion, but I think you also got very lucky with those 2 GP seasons even though COVID happened. 2019-2020 was honestly pretty good, it was the first senior season of the Trusova - Kostornaia - Scherbakova trio, but we also had Tuktamysheva, Medvedeva, Zagitova in the running at least in those 6 GPs before things started unravelling. Rika Kihira was still hitting 3As even though her injury that has crippled her since started to show its severity that season. Nathan was arguably at his competitive peak, and Yuzuru did his last ever full GP season. Kevin Aymoz was rising during that GP series (before melting down at Worlds, which was the start of the very volatile Kevin we know now). Pairs was Sui/Han fending off not 1, not 2, but 4 different Russian teams.

And then the skaters did get some time off from competitions - COVID took out the next GP series, and they all came back for the post-pandemic one which was also the Olympic GP series. It was pretty clear for me that for some, it was their last hurrah, but there was still enough known names for you to be interested in, and of course the Olympic qualifying is always dramatic and have many skaters on their best or at least better forms, trying to qualify.

But yeah after that everything happened at once: the post-Olympics retirement/hiatuses from top competitors, the ban on Russia and also the minimum age change. Also IMO competing for the Olympics during the pandemic and having one under such strict lockdown was a big toll to all the skaters, the burnouts and breaks taken for physical and mental health makes a lot of sense. And well some of them even just started to take some break now (like Loena).

I think that the sport took a lot of cumulative damage and it's just not done re-stabilising itself yet, so I understand you view on then, when will it happen??? because everyone is saying that it's rebuilding - it still needs more time because so many things happened. I don't think anyone wants to perform poorly so I do give the athletes some slack. Before 2019 there were poor GP seasons, so what is happening now is not that special. I hope you can have a little bit of patience before taking away the GPs.

 

[Rebecca Moose]

It has always been like this. I remember Marina Butyrskaya winning Grand Prix events in the late 90s landing 3 or 4 triples. There were dire Grand Prix events in the 90s and 00s. You kids ain't seen nothing!

I actually think the Challenger Series is a bigger detriment and has made the Grand Prix redundant.

 

[Arigato]

I actually think the Challenger Series is a bigger detriment and has made the Grand Prix redundant.

I don't think they make them redundant as much as they take away the ability to have an excellent first impression of a program. That's why I purposely don't watch some people's long programs at a Challenger. I let their program simmer, soaking in the seasoning. Stir it awhile. Then I let them serve it to me hot, at the main event.

 

[TallyT]

In the men, 2014-15 was a weird year: Javi was there but Patrick took the time off, Takahashi had retired, Denis couldn't seem to capitalise on his OBM, Yuzuru and Han Yan had that godawful crash at COC which screwed them up for months and impacted the rest of the field there who saw it (and I still wonder how much it affected Han Yan's rise at the time, maybe not but... who knows), Chen, Shoma and Boyang hadn't started their rise. Then it all started coming good in 2015-16.

I actually think the Challenger Series is a bigger detriment and has made the Grand Prix redundant.

Do you suggest dropping the Challengers? Or the Grand Prix? Because really, if the latter the skaters are gonna have very little on the way of prestigious skating left for the first part of the season, the Challengers doesn't have that yet, even less people know or care about them than the GPs.

 

[rabidline]

Chen, Shoma and Boyang hadn't started their rise. Then it all started coming good in 2015-16.

All of them are still juniors in 2014-2015, they wouldn't be able to impact the senior GPs even if they want to.

 

[Joekaz]

With the juniors moving to seniors next season on top of the women they already have at senior level, Japan needs several MORE events just to get all their ladies in. It doesn't need to be reduced at all. The scores are reduced because girls aren't doing as many jumps they can't do without cheating as before .Plus most are not looking to peak early since this is really the beginning of a 2 year Olympic season. What actually needs to be done is crack down on the excessive pre rotation and horrific pick form used by the majority of the top women to cheat their way to 3/3 combos and you will have lower scores, but higher quality. If a 3/2 was good enough for Michelle Kwan most of her career, its good enough for the current ladies. Fake improvement through poor technique and lax judging is not progress.

 

[TallyT]

All of them are still juniors in 2014-2015, they wouldn't be able to impact the senior GPs even if they want to.

Agreed! It was just, in retrospect and knowing they were coming, and along with everything else... it made it as I said, even more of a weird year than it probably felt at the time.